levampyreDear fellow autistic or monotropic peers, I need your advice. I struggle with taking "me time", esp. in stressfull tides. How do you do it? How are you able to relax when you know you have unfinished business? How do you not feel guilty (?) thinking about all the chores you didn't do today? How do you drop tasks you or your loved ones depend on? And how do you give away responsibility, when it means that you also lose control over how things are done? @actuallyautistic #autism #monotropism
Fabien@levampyre I don't and just burn out… :/
lizzzzard@levampyre I've burnt out and can give a few pointers from the other side of therapy.
sometimes it's a question of self worth. Most chores aren't actually worth feeling awful for. You are important, and thus, taking breaks is important. Maybe not more important than putting food on the table, but definitely more important than cleaning windows or tidying up before your parents visit.
@levampyre Then there's also internalized judgment, having to be useful all the time. Taking breaks is actually perfectly okay! This can be internalized capitalism, or you only got loved conditionally when you did good.
This is tricky to deal with and what helped me can't be explained properly in a short post. I give hugs to my inner child and ask her if she would like to take a break.
@levampyre and then there's the very rational argument that you won't be able to do *more* chores when you finally burn out. Believe me, coming back from burnout takes weeks of not being able to do anything. So just schedule breaks to avoid breaking yourself.
@levampyre giving away responsibility: yeah... There's more than one way to do things actually. Getting things done at all is better than not doing them, but perfectly.
I hate the way my husband stacks the dishes in the dishwasher. But they come out clean anyway and I objectively don't have time to do everything. So I only re-stack the dishes in my weak moments. ;-)
@lizzard Yeah, I think scheduling breaks or scheduling "me time" could actually be the way to go. But then I also need head space during those scheduled breaks. So I really need to unlearn to judge myself for unfinished tasks. I actually do not have so much concern about others judging me, because I am perfectly capable of tormenting myself. I rationally understand that what you say is true, but I still can't seem to stop. Why is that?
@lizzard Even if nobody knows that I didn't do a thing or that I didn't do a thing as perfectly as I usually do it, I will always know and it will always leave a stain on how good I feel about it or myself.
katha@levampyre all the above, that @lizzard listed and clearly learning on an emotional level, that it is ok to not do the thing.
I love the dishwasher example, as it fits perfectly, I'm also not rearranging things on the drying rack, latley I'm even ok with using the dryer and not beating myself up about it.
What helped most, was saying it out loud. I know on a mental level, that me beeing hard on myself is of no value. But I was only able to start to change things, when I verbalized them, kind
@levampyre of using my partner as a second correcting instance, verbalizing (e.g. with methods of nonviolent communication towards myself), what bugs me, what I think must be done and what would actually help me right now.
Also cutting of big parts of the family and the internalized guilt that came with expectations actually helped a lot, though that is a totally different route and one I might not recomment for everyone.
@levampyre because judging yourself was an important coping behavior once. They get ingrained into your unconscious, and unlearning them is not! easy. not at all. It even hurts.
This is really what therapy is about! Not just the finding out on a rational level, but confronting the (intense) feelings that come up when you try to behave differently. Holding them, ideally not alone, letting them pass through you, and building new behaviors.
@lizzard You are probably right. It HAS been part of my coping strategy. I HAD to be totally strict with myself and make no mistakes to fit in to achieve my goals. And so far I'd say I succeeded in life using that exact strategy - being meticulous and unforgiving of myself if I made the same mistake twice. I'm really not very accepting of my flaws, now that I think about it. 🤔
@levampyre it's a good strategy. It has helped you survive and thrive. It's not a bad thing at all, no reason to beat yourself up about it.
And it's not necessary to stop that completely: it's just time to learn a new strategy in addition to adapt to a new addition.
zweifeln@levampyre @actuallyautistic the only way it actually works for me is if I don't do it for myself - but for someone else.
Have someone I trust and respect order me to take me-time - and get mad at me if I don't.
I'm not sure if that's really a healthy approach but so far that's the only way I figured for myself how to manage it.
In a previous partnership it worked really well in both ways.
@zweifeln @andreasdotorg ^^ What do you think about that, sweety?
Ela@levampyre @zweifeln Worth a try!
Creative! Queer!! Autistic!!!I don’t know! It keeps me awake for nights on end!
play in progress@levampyre @actuallyautistic I'm more terrified of having a nervous breakdown again than of failing at any of the tasks on my plate, and this is while already being basically perma-precarious - in other words food insecurity etc. are never truly out of my sight. So, no fun.
But if I don't rest, and rest *enough*, eventually my body and mind just stop functioning, and I have experienced what that is like, and it makes rest non-negotiable. Scariest experience of my life.
@levampyre @actuallyautistic ...but getting there took a pretty comprehensive demolition of my previous self-image, so 🤷
@playinprogress I've heard that from other friends as well. That when you get into a burnout cycle it becomes harder and harder to ever get out again. And I've been warned to not risk that. I will probably need some demolition of my self image, too, at least to figure out what's really important (for/to me) and what's not so important. And then drop or reduce the unimportant stuff.
@levampyre @playinprogress also this, I have to sadly second this
@kathol @levampyre I have also become a bit like teflon for other people's expectations regarding what I should be able to do in what time frame, or even at all. But that is probably downstream from understanding myself as disabled, *and not being ashamed of it*. I don't apologize for my limitations anymore, I just state them. "Ich mache was ich kann, und was ich nicht kann mache ich nicht."
I am also basically unemployable at this point.
@playinprogress @levampyre also, I'm not cleaning. If you don't like the state of windows, floors or corners of the rooms, let me tell you were everything is.
(Though we're only having folks ovee not rising this issue...)
Bergisches Bäuerlein@kathol @playinprogress @levampyre good advice.
But usually *I* don't like the state of windows, floors and corners and that's the main problem.
I try to accept that I cannot do all the stuff I like to be done and also try use that as a shield when external demands are incoming.
"that lawn needs mowing" - "yes, that would be nice"
Or: "Du musst das mal reparieren" - "*ja, aber man kommt ja zu nichts*". For that Phrase I'm famous. Sometimes it even works.
@hof Yeah in regard to the state of our home it's also I who is most bothered by the mess. I live with two kids and an ADHD wife. Everything always lies about, gets dropped wherever it was used last and creeps into my sense of order from there. Meaning, before I can even start the dishwasher, I need to collect all the dishes. Before I start the vacuum, I have to put away the Legos, etc. If I don't wanna do it myself I have to kick people's ass and risk a family fight. 😅
@kathol @playinprogress
@kathol @playinprogress
@hof I have already given up on a shiny, minimalist home. I also like spaces looking homely and used, like someone is actually living there and not like a design catalogue photo. But if I stopped my regular cleaning routines, like some people suggested I do to teach my family a lesson, I fear I'd be the only one actually suffering, before it would bother anyone else in my household.
@kathol @playinprogress
@kathol @playinprogress
Oh, btw. do you all know that proverb: "A clean house is a sign of a wasted life"? It became my mantra when I first heard it.
@hof @levampyre @playinprogress we have the same sticker. We have almost the same family constelation and cleaning problems.
Also, that "teaching my family a lesson" does not work here.
Sometimes "Dienste" work. But only sometimes.
And then there is the whole clean state, clear mind kind of problem. But sadly, there came a point, where I could not any more. And after a time, it even was ok (though it is not always).
@hof @levampyre @playinprogress (but we also had some very heated discussions about this sticker not valueing care and cleaning work and how, in the end, someone has to do it, even if you pay someone (way too little) to do it for you.)
@kathol Yes, the devaluation of unpaid household work or any "womenly" work is really not funny at all. Results in a whole culture of lower paid care jobs, which is a disgrace for society. It's also visible in that chore table on your fridge you sent us. Somehow your picture and your tasks are missing. A symbol of all the household chores still being YOUR responsibility somehow. The others are only helping you a bit with your chores, because mommy can't do it all.
@hof @playinprogress
@hof @playinprogress
@kathol (I'm not saying this to mock you for being an unemanzipated household, btw. It's the same at our household, and WE consider ourselves emanzipated and super aware of equality and feminist ideas.)
@levampyre @hof @playinprogress oh, no, actually I'm the one with the hat, the other grown up part is missing (not pictured, but still there).
But the rest still holds. We are a household, where I'm the main financially provider, and the male part is doing almost all of the care work, but still, there is a lot of invisible work going on at my part.
@kathol Ah, I see. My bad. Then it's still my own prejudices deceiving me. 🙈
@levampyre ...and I am not sure if you were joking higher up in the thread when you mentioned drugs, but some substances can be helpful for some parts of the process if chosen wisely. Though that is not a topic for a place like this.
@playinprogress Let's discuss it elsewhere then. I was only partly joking. Maybe I should come visit you again next fall for some chestnut forraging.
Kevin Davy@levampyre @actuallyautistic
This one that I think many of us struggle with. In part, as others have said, this is internalised capitalism, the whole you must be productive to feel valued crap.
But, it is also a way we learnt to cope, with the trauma of life as much as anything. We became over-controllers. If we can just stay on top of everything then we're fine, we're coping, we're not standing out.
It's a damn hard habit to break. But it's also as destructive as hell. Sure, we can cope with the stamina of youth. But, as you get older and have more and more to deal with and progressively less energy to do so. Then inevitably either everything crashes around you and/or you burnout.
Realising you don't have to do everything. That it's ok to let others help, that it's not a weakness or a negative. That things don't have to be perfect, that they can sometimes wait, or be done well enough for now, all helps.
But mostly it's about learning to see yourself in the world in a new way. That your validity and worth are not defined by anything other than your own existence. That you can be as messy and screwed up and mistake prone as the next man. That maintaining yourself and self-care is as much your right as it is everyone else's and learning to live with that.
This one that I think many of us struggle with. In part, as others have said, this is internalised capitalism, the whole you must be productive to feel valued crap.
But, it is also a way we learnt to cope, with the trauma of life as much as anything. We became over-controllers. If we can just stay on top of everything then we're fine, we're coping, we're not standing out.
It's a damn hard habit to break. But it's also as destructive as hell. Sure, we can cope with the stamina of youth. But, as you get older and have more and more to deal with and progressively less energy to do so. Then inevitably either everything crashes around you and/or you burnout.
Realising you don't have to do everything. That it's ok to let others help, that it's not a weakness or a negative. That things don't have to be perfect, that they can sometimes wait, or be done well enough for now, all helps.
But mostly it's about learning to see yourself in the world in a new way. That your validity and worth are not defined by anything other than your own existence. That you can be as messy and screwed up and mistake prone as the next man. That maintaining yourself and self-care is as much your right as it is everyone else's and learning to live with that.
@pathfinder That rings very true.
Cybermenace a.D.@levampyre @actuallyautistic for me intense contact to well rounded neuro-normal people works well.
They tend to feel that there are a lot of things they have no control over and they are fine with it. They are fine with the fact that many of the things that should be done are not done today and maybe never. Generally less binary thinking, less perfectionism.
I think also moving away from nerd culture worked well for me.
@levampyre @actuallyautistic I find that I imagine my loved ones depend on much more of my busy work, than they actually do.
For example dropping the requirement to provide a healthy and ecological conscious meal every day made life for us so much less stressful.
It also helps me to think that the chores I want to be done are enough to fill 50 hours a day - so it is normal if much stuff is left undone; no reason to worry.
I struggle withe the question "do I want to be loved for who I am "do I want to be loved for what I do". And how much of what I am is defined by what I do.
Generally I do not want to be remembered as a busy person with no time. But I want to get a lot done. But getting things done makes me a busy person.
So I'm angry that I have to go to the cinema with my partner because there is unfinished work. And I'm angry with that I don't enjoy the quality time with my partner.
@levampyre @actuallyautistic
What works well for me is imagining my future self: in two years will I fondly remember the Saturday I finished that coding project?
Or will I remember the night we sat at the river or the and had a beer while watching the ambulances on the other side?
What works well for me is imagining my future self: in two years will I fondly remember the Saturday I finished that coding project?
Or will I remember the night we sat at the river or the and had a beer while watching the ambulances on the other side?
@levampyre @actuallyautistic Still, this does not work always. Company parties/outings were a horror because of all the unfinished thoughts/projects/todos.
Why should we go paddling while this or that needs finishing? I solved that by actually not starting any real work the day before.
Why should we go paddling while this or that needs finishing? I solved that by actually not starting any real work the day before.
@levampyre All this sounds terrible self-centered and trivial while writing it.
You sound as if your live is very challenging currently. I wish you well and find some inspiration for unburdening.
@md Well, I asked for advice. It's always a chance to reflect on oneself. So don't feel bad about doung. Not starting a project before a company party is actually smart. I will definitely try that.
@md Exactly, yeah, the moments when we form memories from, when we take the time to enjoy life, these are the moments we live for. Not work. But there is also some work that I really enjoy doing, gardening e.g., preserving food, etc. And since we have plants and pets these also require some chores kind of work. But I do waste too much of my valuable time on a stupid employment that I wouldn't do if we didn't live in capitalism and didn't need the money to survive. That's for sure.
Sebastian Mangelsdorf@levampyre @actuallyautistic
I try to keep a list of what recovers my energy and have a timeslice every day for self care where i pick something from that list. Before i was able to get to that level i walked 10min a day in a sensory friendly area and focused on breathing. What broke the loop in the past was the idea that in order for my loved ones to be less burdened by me i need to take care of myself.
I try to keep a list of what recovers my energy and have a timeslice every day for self care where i pick something from that list. Before i was able to get to that level i walked 10min a day in a sensory friendly area and focused on breathing. What broke the loop in the past was the idea that in order for my loved ones to be less burdened by me i need to take care of myself.
@cardes That's a smart idea. I could try to use different colour markers on my already existing todo lists and integrate more of those items that I want to do for myself to balance with what I need to do for others. And for every task or two I do for others, I reward myself with an energy regaining thing I do for myself. 👍
@levampyre Thats a very good idea, i hope it helps you 😊
towo@levampyre
What helps me is considering the negative impact of neglecting self-care. I still tend to overextend myself, but focusing on the fact that me not being healthy is a bigger issue for my family than me being behind on e.g. chores helps; generating care work for others *and* not getting tasks done is worse than just getting fewer tasks done.
Lack of mental vs. physical health expresses differently, of course, but both have negative consequences.
What helps me is considering the negative impact of neglecting self-care. I still tend to overextend myself, but focusing on the fact that me not being healthy is a bigger issue for my family than me being behind on e.g. chores helps; generating care work for others *and* not getting tasks done is worse than just getting fewer tasks done.
Lack of mental vs. physical health expresses differently, of course, but both have negative consequences.
@towo I'm afraid that way relaxing or taking a break would become a necessary chore I do for others. I would have to take care of myself, not for myself, because I'm worth it, but because my family relies on me and will not be able to rely on me, if I'm broken. It becomes just another responsibility. Breaking would be my fault, because I didn't take care of myself enough. And now my poor family must suffer, because I neglected my responsibility to relax and take care of myself.
@levampyre Oh, fair, that's something I haven't considered yet, since I'm using my logic as a backing reasoning for my desires, not as the sole or primary motivation for doing those. The desire for me-time is still intrinsic, I just need some justification to allow myself to follow it.
@towo I have a rational justification, I just lack the ability to let go and relax, because I constantly think about all the things I need to do and haven't done, I'm constantly aware of all my responsibilities. 😕