A Chinese term that has no satisfactory English translation: 辜負

I've seen this translated as: to disappoint, to fail, to waste, to betray.

It isn't any of those things, yet it is all of those things.

I had a perfect use for it yesterday but since my partner doesn't know Chinese, I found myself struggling to express the thought in English.

Friend knows my daughter is injured and can only eat soft food. They went out of their way to prepare a meal that she could eat even though we didn't plan to stay for dinner. So we ended up staying because I didn't want to 辜負 their efforts.

And I find English just didn't have the word I was looking for. The word carries meaning that's is both letting someone down and wasting their efforts.

Say a parent spent years saving for a kids college tuition and suddenly kid says they changed their minds. It 辜負's their effort to save all those years.

I find no word in English carries the same sentiment. It's both the waste and let down

Turning this into a thread of Chinese words I find has no satisfactory English translation.

仇人

Often translated as enemy or nemesis.

What it means: someone who has done something wrong to me on a personal level. In dramas it's often someone who has killed a member of one's family or framed the family for a crime.

Why translations falls flat.

Enemy can be just a person on the other side of a war. That soldier didn't do anything to me. We are just on opposing sides of a conflict. It's not personal. We have another word for that. 敵人

Nemesis usually means someone I am opposing or competing against. We might be in the same field and don't see eye to eye and always butting heads, but that person never did anything to wrong me on a personal level.

仇人 is a very specific thing where there's a wrong done to you by that person on a personal level.

幸福 is another Chinese term with no satisfactory English translation.

Often translated as happiness or prosperity.

What it means:
It is used to describe one's state of being as good and fortunate.

Why the translations fall flat

Happiness is a short term thing. Did you have a good day? Yes. I was very happy at the amusement park. We have a term for that- 開心.

But 幸福 is different. I can be overall very 幸福 but having a very bad day, or week. It doesn't take away from my overall state of 幸福。 It is also not a thing money can Buy. You may be happy to get that thing you purchased but that momentary happiness is fleeting and doesn't contribute to our overall state of 幸福。

Prosperity also falls flat because 幸福 does not necessarily mean rich. Obviously rich people tend to be happier people when basic needs are met but you can be relatively poor yet very 幸福 because you are surrounded by love and kids and have what you generally want or need in life.

幸福 is a long term happiness/prosperity that comes from life decisions or if you're lucky, born circumstances.

The closest translation would be something like "I've been very fortunate in life" but that takes away the active decision making part that created your 幸福。Perhaps you have this 幸福 because you worked and studied hard and got that dream job and could start a family and with someone you love. And part of that 幸福 is having the right person in your life and you didn't pick a partner for vanity reasons.

The important distinction for me is that 幸福 is a long term happiness that depends on circumstances and good decisions whereas happiness is a short term thing that a day at the amusement park or a new purchase could satisfy for a day.

This next one in this thread might get some pushback but I find 對不起 unsatisfactory in translation.

Generally translated to : sorry.

Which seems straightforward and generally accepted but Chinese people have several terms that get translated to "sorry".

抱歉
不好意思

The two above are also, and mostly, correctly, translated to "I'm sorry".

對不起 while not incorrect, to me is a stronger form of "sorry". While it does get used casually almost joke like, it carries a deeper remorse. If you accidentally walk into someone on the sidewalk, your apology will probably be 不好意思. You are telling the other person you didn't mean to do that. It was unintentional, you apologize, and you move on.

對不起 are the words : toward(you), not, rise.

It's meaning is much more than accidentally hitting someone. It means you failed to live up to expectations.

I've seen 我對不起他 translated as "I'm sorry to him" (which is a bad translation to begin with ) but what it really means is "I've failed to live up to what is expected of me in my dealings and behaviour to that person".

When used formally, it implies a deeper failing than simply not seeing where you were going. Maybe a cheating spouse will say 我對不起你 because 不好意思 doesn't cut it for that. You have to admit that you've failed on a basic expectation level.

So all the forms of sorry get rolled into a single word in English and does not do justice to the nuance of the apology.

Every Chinese child in the diaspora is familiar with the word "抱".

No matter how reluctant the kids (and sometimes parents) are to speak Chinese, I can bet that the phrase "I want 抱抱" has been said. That's because the word 抱 has no English equivalent.

抱 (pronounced "Bao" in mandarin and "Po" in Cantonese) means - pick up and carry. But very specifically the type of carry is clutching in the arms kind of carry.

If you are using a hand to carry a heavy bag (dangling), that is not 抱. It is when you are holding something in your arms and against your chest.

My friend's mom teased her because she went to buy rice and came home clutching the heavy bag in that manner and asked her why she 抱 the rice and how precious it was. The word is mostly for kids, pets, etc.

In English, kids use terms like "up", "carry"... But none compare to 抱 because that term isn't used for anything else.

Because there's no translation, it is one of the few words that every kid in the diaspora knows.

Edit to add: my husband doesn't speak Chinese and his favourite phrase is "daddy, 抱me".

This next term took me a long time to understand why the translations don't work for me.
任性

Translated as: willful, headstrong, free willed.

See the mismatch there? Again it's not any of those things and yet all of those things.

I finally realized the reason the translations fall flat is because women (and children, and frankly all people but not as much as women) are held to strict social codes in Confucian societies that western societies aren't.

When a woman is 任性, she is stubbornly not adhering to the social codes set out for her by society. She is not supposed to go out and run around and do all those wonderful things outside of the social codes that the patriarchy has set for us. Hence the free will part. And the headstrong part is having your own ideas and desires.

This is why the translations don't work because headstrong outside of the Confucian codes isn't necessarily a bad thing-nor is being wilful. But this isn't that. This carries a negative context because of the patriarchy.

So I love women who are 任性 because we are awesome.

吃苦 is a term that President Xi brought to the international stage and the best foreign media could do was translate it to its literal words "eat bitterness".

The term means to suffer and endure hardship. The 吃 means to eat, and this term is used to convey emotions as well.
吃醋 literally translates to eating vinegar but means to be jealous (usually over romantic rivals).

I suppose this extends the "you are what what you eat" idea and we are taking emotions and inputting them into the body like we eat them.

It isn't that we don't have words for suffering and jealousy in English, it's that the mode of experience is different. We don't take it in like food that can be shared or in some way choose how much we consume. In Chinese, the sharing of these things can be very emotional. You might say to a loved one, "If there's any bitterness, I will eat it with you" 有苦,我們一起吃. This becomes a very emotionally beautiful thing to say and hear. Something entirely lost in translation.

As an aside, Xi had complained that young people these days didn't eat enough bitterness and that's why they had so many political complaints (so of course a great public policy is to then make their lives worse 🙄 )

This next word that can't be translated in this thread took a while as I really had to think through how to convey it.

委屈

pronounced "wei qu" in mandarin, "wai wut" in Cantonese.

I've seen this (poorly) translated as "aggrieved". (Really, what does that even mean to you?) It's also been translated as "wronged". We had an entire discussion about how to translate this in one of my chat groups and the best someone could come up with was "please put up with this". It's a really hard concept to describe.

It means that one has been unjustly treated or asking someone to put up with something that is unfair.

So some examples

委屈你 - This says "委屈 you".
It is said when you are asking someone to do something that that's unfair or below expectations. If someone were staying in my house and all I have to offer is a cot, I may say "委屈 that you have to sleep on my cot". It's acknowledging that this is unfair or not great. It's saying "Please put up with this sub par or unfair situation".

I remember as a rebellious teen full of attitude, my mom asked me to do something and I did it reluctantly (full of attitude) and she asked sarcastically "is it 委屈 that you have to do this?"
She was asking me if I really felt it was that unfair or unreasonable that I had to do whatever chore I was being tasked with.

委屈 can be used both as a verb and a noun. I can feel 委屈 like I feel happy. I can also be asked to 委屈 myself like I can be asked to tolerate something.

If someone said to me "don't 委屈 yourself", they are essentially saying "don't force yourself to tolerate an unfair or unreasonable situation". All translations for this term has fallen flat. Really, the best translation would probably be "be good to yourself", but then that also fails to capture the sentiment.

辛苦 is often gets translated as working hard, but fails to capture the meaning.

The individuals characters:
辛: to suffer, labour

苦:bitter (same as the eating bitterness in an earlier post above).

pronounced "xin ku" in mandarin, "sun fu" in Canto.

The term means to work hard in a laborious and suffering manner.

It can also be used to say "Thank you" to someone and acknowledge their hard work.

Example uses:

My dad used to own/run a restaurant and we would say 今日好辛苦. "Today was a long, hard, labour intensive day that caused a lot of bodily suffering".

Maybe at the end of the workday he would say to his staff 辛苦你. (辛苦you). Just like there are many ways to say "sorry" in an above post, there are many ways to say "thanks" in Chinese. This is a deeper level of thanks that acknowledges their hard work and is saying I appreciate what you went through and the strain and suffering this causes. There are other way to say thank you as well that are deeper than the typical. 有勞 is similar (minus the suffering) and 多虧 (this deserves its own post).

”Hard work" alone is an insufficient translation since we have other terms to describe that. I was 勤力 in my studies (I worked hard) but I didn't have the same kind of bodily suffering that working long hours in the restaurant gets you.

辛苦 is a combination of hard work and physical suffering.

Following from yesterday, 多虧 is an expression that deserves some insight.
pronounced "duo kui" in Mandarin, "doa kuai" in Canto (very similar to be honest).

It is translated as "thanks" or "luckily".

What it means:
多 means "lots of"
虧 means deficits, loss, disadvantage.

Going back to the concept of "eating" things, 吃虧 means to eat, or take a loss.
多虧 is very counter intuitive. Though it literally means "lots of loss" it is a way to express appreciation for someone.

If I said 多虧你 (Lots of loss to you), I am essentially saying "Thank you, this was a big effort at large expense to yourself to get this done or pull this off".

If I said 多虧有你 (lots of loss, having you), it means "luckily we have you“ or "fortunately, thanks to your efforts".

This one took me a lot of analysis and I'm not even sure I have it all right.

It is another way of saying "Thanks for taking one for the team" but in a more formalized and polite way.

And what made this one so hard is that eating a loss is bad, but lots of loss is good (in a sense).

I also want to go into the other forms of saying thank you.

有勞 -(you lao) literally means "there is effort". It means you are acknowledging that the person put in effort (This is more mando I think and I've honestly only ever seen it used in dramas so I don't know if people actually use this irl)

唔該 - "ng gai" this is very Canto. It means to give thanks for doing a thing like holding a door open.

謝謝 - xie xie - this is your standard base level thank you.

Just like multiple ways to say sorry, we have multiple ways to say thanks that get all rolled into one. I guess in Chinese, the levels of sincerity matter more?

承讓 is another term with no translation.

"Cheng rang" in Mando, "sing yeung" in canto.

The individual characters

承 - to support or be indebted to
讓 - to yield, to give way.

The term is said after a game or match. The winner says 承讓 as polite way to say "thanks for letting me win"

It's a graceful way to acknowledge the opponent and say "I didn't beat you, you let me win".

Being a good winner is as important as being a good loser.

We typically say "good game" in English but this takes it up a notch.

You may have seen Chinese spectators cheering on the Chinese team at various sporting events with signs that say 加油.

It is the equivalent of saying "go team go".

Translation
加- add
油 - oil

We are essentially saying "put more gas in the tank. Work harder".

In dramas when people say it to each other it gets translated so awkwardly. A parent might say encouraging words before an exam and add 加油. It often gets clumsily translated to "you can do it."

We are not nearly as optimistic in our words of encouragement. The presumption of success isn't there. Lol. I feel like this is so Asian parenting to say "work harder, put more oil in that tank" but without the believing in them part. You need to say that separately. And I try to usually.

Anyways, when you see signs at international sporting events, you now know what they say. Literally "add oil".

Anyone who is a fan of C-dramas is probably familiar with the term 江湖.

Literal translation is 'River, Lake".

Pronounced: "jiang hu" in Mandarin. "Gong Wu" in Cantonese.

One dictionary has it as "people wandering from place to place living by their wits eg fortune tellers, quack doctors, itinerant entertainers".
I've also seen this defined as "pugilist world." If you're like me, unfamiliar with that word it means a boxer or fighter. None of those definitions makes much sense.

If you watch enough Wuxia C dramas, you probably figured out it's the people who are outside of the government officialdom. There's the emperor and the ministers, then there's the people of the 江湖.

The word exists outside of Wuxia novels too though. My father got caught up with the wrong people in the 60s and 70s in Hong Kong. If you know anything about the HK triads, they are basically the HK version of the Italian mafia. My dad emigrated and left that world behind but I had heard him and a friend reminisce about old friends and said that it wasn't easy surviving in the 江湖.

I think most Chinese people understand what the word means but if you asked them to define or describe it, they would hesitate and take an entire paragraph to paint a picture of what the word means. It's the people/society outside of the strict confines of the social structure/ legal framework but not necessarily people doing illegal things.

You don't hear it much in modern society except with relation to those outside of the law.

I'm happy for anyone else to chip into this definition too b/c while like I said, we all have an idea of what this means, it's a mess to describe, and probably a little different how each of us interpret it.

P.S. 江湖 (River lake) is pretty much the opposite of 江山 (River mountain). The latter is used to describe the empire. The emperor might say "my 江山" to say the empire that he rules whereas the emperor has no say in what happens in the 江湖.

冤枉 is something all C drama watchers have come across. It's something said after the judge comes down with a guilty verdict and the prisoners are getting dragged away. It's used in real life too though.

It has been translated as "I'm innocent", "I've been framed", "unjust".

It means all of those things.
Pronounced "yuan Wang " in Mando. "Yuen Wong" in canto.

Say you're accused of a crime, you can say to the person accusing you "你冤枉我". (You 冤枉 me). Which means "you are falsely accusing me unfairly".

When Marcellus Williams died, it was said he died very 冤枉。His death was unjust and unwarranted.

If you get lost and end up taking the long way to get somewhere, you can say you 走冤枉路 (walked 冤枉 path). So you walked extra for nothing.

The word is mostly used to describe an injustice inflicted upon someone. "Innocent" as a translation doesn't capture the injustice part (we have a word for innocent that's separate).

I think everyone knows of the term 師父. Ever since Michelle Yeoh graced us with her presence in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon there was an explosion in Kung Fu content in western cinema, even at the Disney level so this word is probably familiar to everyone.

Pronounced "Shi Fu" in Mando, "see fu" in canto. (The tones are different but that's tmi).

It's been generally translated to "master" and I'm here today to rant about how much this pisses me off.

I have no idea when this translation became solidified but it may be too late now.

What the term means: teacher, mentor.

Why the translation pisses me off: I don't think I really need to explain the horrific connotations of the term master stretching back to slavery. The word is just loaded and to me does not give due respect to the student teacher relationship.

The second half of the term 父 literally means "father". The term is more like "teacher father" (it was the patriarchy, even women got the same term).

There's also a saying in Chinese that drama watchers may have come across 一日為師 終身為父。 A teacher for a day, a father for a lifetime.

It's the deep respect that Chinese people have for learning and those who impart teachings. The term "Master" does not do justice to how teachers are viewed imo.

Now for actual terms that have no translation. All the Spin off relationships of 師父

師姐 / 師妹(teacher sister)
師兄 / 師弟 (teacher brother)
師母 (teacher mother) teacher's wife
師丈 (teacher gentleman). Teacher's husband
(There are many more... They go into aunt and uncle relationships and even grandparent levels).

These terms are still used today btw.

The sibling terms are used for people who studied in the same school or under the same teacher as you. I use it to refer to my brothers and sisters at the wing chun dojo. I was the newest so they were all my "elders".

When a friend of my mom's found out that I used to be an air cadet like her grandkid is she said 'wow, you're her 師姐'.

My partner is a prof and he took on a student who is Chinese. I am generally really good to his students. When this particular student had family visit they respectfully visited us and the aunt talked about how great it was that they had such a great 師母 (teacher's wife) despite being so far away from family. Like an idiot, I nodded and smiled and took way too long to realize she was talking about me!

I know these terms are used in many other contexts so if anyone has any others, please share.

Bottom line: Chinese people like to refer to each other as family and teaching environment has also been structured into family. So the 師 denotes the teaching relationship and the second character is the relationship to you.

"Master" has been the generally accepted translation for the main teacher and it's such a poor translation I hope this post does a decent job explaining why.

I think it's too late to go back though. Every martial arts school has basically adopted it and it irks me to no end. </End rant>

@chu it's definitely something I struggled with having learned many martial arts.

While the term "master" does apply to martial arts, it's not in a "domain over others", but you've achieved "mastery". Many of the descriptors used for high ranked martial artists will be "master [of] <martial art> <rank>", but I've never heard anyone refer to the instructor as a "master".

In Australia it's generally sir, teacher, instructor, or a martial art specific word, depending on rank, martial art, etc

@sortius

I'm in Canada and it's used here.

Also a generic master of an art is a 師傅. Different second character. The father character is generally the person who teaches you, and doesn't have to necessarily be a high level expert.

@chu maybe that's where the poor translation comes from? I read a number of poorly researched martial arts books in the 90's, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone did a bad translation and it stuck 😖

@sortius

The problem is that there really is no good English equivalent either.

It's not like the word "teacher" conveys the right amount of respect.

@chu oh, for sure. As much as there's no mysterious "honour system" in martial arts, there's a definite clearly defined respect system, and part of that is offering respect to both higher belts, and those that offer their knowledge
@sortius @chu this is very interesting to see; there's often been debate about the appropriateness of the term "master" within my community. Here's the term in use by the founder of the system I teach: https://sirwilliamhope.org/Library/Hope/NewMethod/nm7.html
Within my cultural context (not necessarily anyone else's) it means someone who is in charge of a (MA) school, and would be a job description not rank or title.
One does encounter titles such as "maestro" awarded by organisations. I was taught much by a "professor".
Linacre School of Defence

@knirirr @chu interesting, and maestro is definitely a term in HEMA, used to denote someone of skill and knowledge.

As we discussed further down in the thread, in Chinese languages there's a difference between the poorly translated "master" as described by the initial toot; meaning a respectful term for the teacher of things. And mastery over things.

It's a friction of terms as English uses one term for two concepts, and we have no way of differentiating it but context

@sortius @chu I'd always understood "maestro" to require qualification by an appropriate body; a lot of HEMA strife has been due to a lack of mutual respect between those who have been classically trained and qualified and those who have not (at least it was 20 years ago; things have probably calmed down a bit).
I think you're right in that the multiple meanings of "master" are problematic.

@knirirr @chu yep, on reflection, I can think of more than two meanings; think headmaster, young man, master of a ship, etc.

I think a lot of problems arise (much like my work experience in tech), when it comes to North America and slavery. Unfortunately, for most of Europe, the UK included, there's been no real slavery reckoning so that term isn't taboo 😖

@sortius @chu Indeed, it was used commonly at school, e.g. having to wait outside the masters' common room to hand in late prep, and there was no conception of the term having anything to do with slavery.
@knirirr on a side note, when I was referring to HEMA and "maestros", it was more in context of some of the Italian masters that Matt Easton quotes in some of his videos. I don't think even he would call himself a "maestro"
@sortius I think you're right; I don't think he would. His background is very similar to mine in that we've studied modern fencing first but not qualified as a professor in it or done similar classical training.
@knirirr yep, just some interesting insights into techniques, weapons, etc. And they seem to have fun figuring stuff out

@sortius

And of course in English the word "maestro" is most commonly used to refer to the conductor of an orchestra. It is both used in the descriptive sense (in the third person to indicate their role in music making) but also is (or at least used to be) an honorific term of address.

The crucial difference here is that while it very much expresses respectful deference, unlike si fu it has no implication of affection or intimacy.

No word in English does and, yeah, that says something about us.

@knirirr

@siderea @sortius that is something which might merit investigation; I'd not expect a fencing master of the period of interest to me to have an intimate or affectionate relationship with his scholars, respectful distance being more appropriate, but I might well be wrong.

@knirirr @sortius

It's the evolution of languages though. It doesn't do justice to all words.

@chu
I see your pain. And yet, I don't think there is actually any one word in English which adequately conveys this meaning. The closest I think might be the phrase "honoured teacher". To say merely "teacher" does not convey the amount of respect involved, because, alas, teachers do NOT get the same amount of respect in the West as they do in the East.

The thing with "Master" in English is that it does have multiple meanings, and one of them is "a master of the art", that is, someone who has mastered some skill to the highest level. It ties in with the apprenticeship model of teaching, where the levels are "apprentice/novice", "journeyman" and "master". The master is the one who is teaching the skill. It isn't a model of teaching that is used much nowadays, but it was very common centuries ago.
In that sense, the word "master" really does fit the meaning pretty well, it conveys the teaching, the respect, it just doesn't cover the family aspect of it.

I also think that those Westerners who like watching martial arts movies are likely to be more familiar with this archaic usage of "Master" and therefore aren't going to be associating it with slavery at all! One still comes across it in things like historical novels and fantasy novels, which are the kind of thing which martial arts fans are also likely to read. Just consider "Harry Potter", where Severus Snape is the "Potions Master", and that is definitely referring to his teaching role!

@kerravonsen

A master of the art, or what I would call maestro even, is a 師傅. Pronounced the same but the second character is different.

The one used to refer to the person who teaches you uses father as the second character.

So in theory, the person could be pretty low level but still your teacher.

And you're right, there's no adequate word... Why it's part of my thread of words that can't be translated to English. More to come

@chu @kerravonsen

Seriously considering stealing the father/mother teacher concept for my fantasy novels.

I already have the idea that those fortunate enough to inherit either the desire to carry on the family business, or the same magic as their parents, can do their apprenticeship at home.

And I like father/mother teacher better than master.

But I might have to keep master as a rank for the magic school, until the new management kicks out the old, entrenched faculty.

#WritingCommunity

@davidtheeviloverlord @chu Mind you, with a fantasy novel, you can make up your own terms, so long as you can make yourself understood. I kind of like the idea of using completely different words for teaching ranks.
Such as:
planter / grower / weeder

@kerravonsen @davidtheeviloverlord

The great thing about a phonetic language with word adaptability like English is the ability to freely make up words.

Words like Shiggles, Caucacity have entered the lexicon without needing much definition.

People like @pluralistic create words like "enshittification" and it might take you a moment, but becomes clear with context and doesn't need much explaining. (Take a look through some of his posts - highly recommend).

It's a lot harder to do stuff like that in a language like Chinese.

@chu @davidtheeviloverlord
It's harder to make new words in Chinese? That surprises me. Especially with the original example at the start of this thread, which combines "teacher" and "father" -- a compound word with a meaning greater than the sum of its parts.

@kerravonsen @davidtheeviloverlord

Our word base is pretty much set though. Each word is a combination of radicals and the word set was developed by successive generations of burning other empire's books.

The "first" emperor's major claim to flame is uniting the empire and he did by having standard units of measurement, currency, and language. You don't do that without slaughtering lots of people, burning their books, and going "here, this is the language now". Mao copied that when he turned what we call "traditional Chinese" into "simplified". The language is steeped in history and sexism. Individual character meanings have a lot harder time changing, and writing.

We can certainly combine new terms but it's a lot clumsier than in English. I don't even have to tell what "shiggles" means and you can reasonably guess.

I'm writing a story in Chinese just for fun and wanting to challenge the sexism, I want to replace some words that have female radicals with male ones and I'm not sure how to even pull that off right now.

@chu Yeah, "maestro" only has the meaning of "a master of the art", it doesn't have any connection with teaching, so it is even less fitting a word to use, I think.

@kerravonsen @chu Master is from Latin meaning "greater," one of greatness and knowledge to whom others owe respect - it was used for teachers (of children) from the earliest. The word maestro in Spanish still means teacher, primarily. "Mister," the default male title, is a variant.

The family role is less explicit, but in Rome the paterfamilias was literally master (both leader *and legal owner* of his familia: wife, children, and domestic slaves) - it's a similar organization, just forgotten.

@chu we had the same discussion in Buddhism. In the 90s it was all ‘Master and disciple’ and then it was just ‘we’ve found a better translation’ and it went ‘mentor and disciple’. No real discussion as to why but those of us who have been around a while knew. Plus, it actually is closer to the real meaning. You would be hard pressed to find ‘master’ anywhere in translations from this century (in our sect at least!)
@buddhawilliams
Speaking of Buddhism, lots of words there with no English translations starting with 施主.
@chu just asked my father-in-law what those characters mean and he had to explain the concept rather than a direct translation, so yeah I guess there’s no translation for it really!
@chu I hate that the term "master" was so taken over by slavery etc. I felt that in many contexts it should define someone who is an expert in their field and exceptionally capable. Your discussion is very well done and very interesting as well. TY for sharing.

@WizardBear

Thank you.

This is also a problem of the term getting a meaning apart from it's original purpose too. It goes both ways. The term master may not have been associated with slavery at its conception but it is now... At least here.

@chu My lawd, I love this so much!! I want to find a way to apply this way of relating to each other through terminology to the sibling-hood of #makers - if only because I've recently found myself using the phrase "my brothers & sisters in making" 😂 (it came out of my mouth when I was doing this video & I left it in 👉 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYmyBs-xNs )

Like one of those Chinese stamps that reads "Maker Sibling" or some such... 🤔

AB Switch Pedal w/ Buffer Circuit - Dub'ya Makes

YouTube
@chu I do wonder if the use of ‘master’ in the English-language translation is intended to relate to the western heierarchy of tradespeople - traditionally the route would be apprentice>journeyman>master , and to attain master rank a person would both be expected to demonstrate an extremely high level of skill, and to train apprentices themself.
@chu Very enlightening post! May I respectfully point that this association of the word "master" with slavery is not present in neoLatin languages, as the original "magister" is associated to both excellence and/or teaching ("maestro", "maître", "mestre")

@candy_mountain

Very true.

The evolution of languages don't do justice to all words.

@chu
"a great 師母 (teacher's wife )despite so far away from family. Like an idiot, I nodded and smiled and took way too long to realize she was talking about me! "

...not that your partner is Yip-Man nor you are for old fashion patriarchy...but this 👇 is what came to my mind when reading this paragraph of your OP 😂

@chu These are so good, words which I took for granted. Also thought of 錫 today. No direct equivalent in English. Again, only aspects of it.
@chu
笑傲江湖 is one of the unmistakably classic Wuxia by Cantonese writer 金庸, your post just reminds me this clip from the 90s movie adaptation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4KnVqXHgAI
人就是江湖 你要怎麼退出? 笑傲江湖II 東方不敗 任我行 令狐沖

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沧海一声笑 许冠杰 (歌词版)

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@kofanchen

The golden age of canto media.

For some reason I can't listen to that song without thinking of this one.

https://youtu.be/XnFJxvvIWdc?si=G09rW2084IzYGTMx

梅豔芳 似是故人來

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@chu gosh I miss her😭

@kofanchen

Me too.

Canto pop has had no equal.

@kofanchen

The works of 金庸 could be a thread that lasts years

@kofanchen

This is such a great clip.

Yeah. How do you leave the 江湖?? (Evil laugh)

@chu I always thought of it as "floor it!" - hit the gas.
@chu How do you pronounce "多虧"?

@charles

edited it to add. thanks.

@chu
In Taiwanese Hoklo we sometime said 勞力. lóo-la̍t
eg 這件代誌予你加真麻煩,勞力喔!
Simply meant thanks your for the labour

@kofanchen

in Canto I think people sometimes use 勞力 the way Mando people use 加油.

@chu oh, that is interesting! I would appreciate more Canto phrases! Fascinating

@chu 虧 is hard to translate

虧你是醫生,還這麼常生病
might be translated to
You get sick so often and yet you call yourself a doctor

@ccshan

I found it a really hard term to grasp.