α΄pα΄ΗH ππ
migas@Heidi
A classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4
Shouting in the Datacenter
Brendan Gregg from Sun's Fishworks team makes an interesting discovery about inducing disk latency. For more details, see Brendan's blog entry: http://blogs...
Harshad Sharma
Multi Purr Puss 
mcc
Apicultor π
VonNaturAustreVe
BedastGPT
Yukari Hafner 
Obsurveyor
Orange Juice [LDA]
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
vampirdaddy
disma
Mike π¬π§ πͺπΊ@Heidi
I realise it's supposed to be fun but yelling at anyone is unacceptable
I realise it's supposed to be fun but yelling at anyone is unacceptable
Doktor Overcomma 
ari :autism: @Heidi ive cried over both
PerlPlayer@Heidi poor Servers in DCs. They're trying there best. π
Kevin Karhan 
Frank Heijkamp@alterelefant @Heidi unless you use SSDs...
@kkarhan @Heidi Indeed, SSD storage is amazing for fast storage but not very cost effective for storing vast quantities of data that is not in need of lightning fast retrieval time. HDD's still have their place in the storage landscape and in certain scenario's they are considered to be more robust and more reliable than SSD's although in practice this is usually not really an issue.
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK@alterelefant @kkarhan @Heidi I dug out some 14 year old spinning rust drives which contain my photos and videos of unlicensed raves from the late 90s and early 2000s, as the statute of limitations have run out so I can finally share these on social media.
These drives worked perfectly after all these times.
thats the first thing I did, the pictures are now in 3 different places as well as the cloud (as they no longer pose any security problems being on there)
@vfrmedia @alterelefant @Heidi imI'd always 3-2-1 backup but all airgapped as a matter of InfoSec & compliance.
@alterelefant @Heidi I think that is true, abeit #HDD|s will sooner or later follow #LTO and other #Tape drive systems as they fall behind in data density, power efficiency and longterm price per TB.
@alterelefant @Heidi I know - it's just that long-term they'll get more and more nieche-cased as #LTO isn't designed for constant random access because the lifetime durability is decreasing with every band pass...
@alterelefant @Heidi again: Of you need to cram Petabytes of Data into a single bank vault box as #offline #backup and expect to handle the tape.maybe once a year, it's fine.
I just think that longterm, both #Tape and #HDDs eill be superseded by #Flash and I'm confident that with the massive enfattening of #Games ideas like the #NeoFloppy / #StiffyDiskDrive will gain demand.
@alterelefant @Heidi As of now, we can see stuff like the #ExaDrive, a 100TB 3,5" SSD for #online - #archival storage.
- As #Helium-filled #SMR-#HDD|s struggle to meet the demand for storage at an acceptable thermal & power envelope and price, #SSD|s will inevitable take over as not only the more robust media but also cheaper, more dense and easier to use.
As for the #NeoFloppy that thing could be made - I'm just not good enough layouting PCBs with the precision needed for #PCIe signalling...
- Needless to say if constant write speed and lifetime in writes is secondary, then a stack of cheap #SATA-SSDs already beats #LTO-9 tapes unless you need to backup literal #Petabytes and need the fancy features like #WORM media.
That being said, it's inevitable that even WORM as a feature may be copied over.
- In fact #ZFS can already offer many features of #LTFS, including read-only snapshots and thus append-only #archives.
Until there are #COTS solutions tho, LTO #Tape and other options will OFC remain dominant and relevant.
- Still I'd happily see storage vendors take up the NeoFloppy and build something off it.
@kkarhan >a stack of cheap #SATA-SSDs already beats #LTO-9 tapes unless you need to backup literal #Petabytes and need the fancy features like #WORM media
Data retention is a fancy feature now? Sure, flash beats tape if you don't mind returning to blank SSDs after a couple of years in storage.
@apicultor @alterelefant @Heidi Well, Flash does retain data quite good.
Also OFC one should regularly examine and rotate backup media.
- If you want to go hardball, you'd choose to #archive on #microfilm and put those rolls in argon-filled aluminium barrels in a bunker, Like #Germany did for it's most significant history until 1990.
Granted, there are multiple options re: #backup and rarely does one need superfast fast, near-zero latency and extemely high capacity backups.
- OFC you get what you paid for and if you choose the cheapest SSD you can buy that isn't a #China #ScamDisk with manipulated TF cards in a RAID-0 enclosure, chances are stuff will work fine.
Proper handling and storage is key OFC but that also applies to #Tape.
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@kkarhan >Well, Flash does retain data quite good.
Sure, if you consider 101 weeks "quite good". Source: JEDEC JESD218A standard, data retention at 25ΒΊC
@apicultor @alterelefant @Heidi Again, that's the minimum spec.
- Most flash will retain data longer, and also 101 weeks is almost two years and I think that any decent #backup system should've turned around said Flash by then at least once.
#VerifyYourBackups and #TestYourBackups applies to EVERY MEDIA...
And if you want to see #flash rated for #archival use, there are already such disks as part of #Tandberg's #RDX lineup - which is basically an overpriced proprietary HDD & SSD cartridge system.
@kkarhan @apicultor @Heidi I would go as far as twenty years. I would refresh a LTO tape every five years. Most data that needs to be stored from a compliancy perspective usually has a retention period of ten years. After that most data is not needed anymore and can be destroyed or written over. Anything else is migrated to the new storage system. By then they are probably selling LTO-11.
@alterelefant @apicultor @Heidi OFC...
- Abeit some stuff has longer retention periods (i.e. medical records have 35 years since last visit / day of death of a patient), but those rather get microfilmed/printed out instead.
@apicultor @kkarhan @Heidi Horses for courses. A company in need of long term archive will invest in proven technology and install a LTO tape library. They are not going to mess around with cheap SSD's. The TCO is more than just the initial investment. A supplier providing a maintenance contract and who will guarantee that the solution they installed works as advertised will be awarded the contract. I don't expect this to change much in the next twenty years or so.
@alterelefant @apicultor @Heidi OFC...
The only competiton so far besides #LTO and #IBM3592 is #ODA or #OpticalDiscArchive which is basically a fancy cartridge system containing 12 #bluray discs each...
- Needless to say the need for #fast and #portable storage will make the use of #SSD|s (even if just simple NOR-Flash ROMs) sooner or later unavoidable given #BDXL has been maxed out at 128 GB, HDDs are too sensitive for many scenarios (we had #iomega #Jaz & #Rev already, and #RDX exists to this day) unavoidable, as data requirements rise faster than the average internet speed.
@alterelefant @apicultor @Heidi #ODA is #Sony's successor to #SAIT using #BluRayDisc|s in Caddies, designed to offer several Petabytes of longterm storage.
- AFAICT they also use anorganic binder for longer lasting media at the cost of more expensive production...
@alterelefant @apicultor @Heidi OFC the "final level" of #Backups would be "#CrystalStorage":
- Basically the density of a #BDXL, but with hundreds if not thousands of layers for Petabytes if not Exabytes of Storage per disc/shard/crystal...
Roddi@Heidi noooo! Donβt shout at your servers!!!
