α΄pα΄ΗH ππ
Kevin Karhan 
Shouting in the Datacenter
Frank Heijkamp@alterelefant @Heidi unless you use SSDs...
@kkarhan @Heidi Indeed, SSD storage is amazing for fast storage but not very cost effective for storing vast quantities of data that is not in need of lightning fast retrieval time. HDD's still have their place in the storage landscape and in certain scenario's they are considered to be more robust and more reliable than SSD's although in practice this is usually not really an issue.
@alterelefant @Heidi I think that is true, abeit #HDD|s will sooner or later follow #LTO and other #Tape drive systems as they fall behind in data density, power efficiency and longterm price per TB.
@alterelefant @Heidi I know - it's just that long-term they'll get more and more nieche-cased as #LTO isn't designed for constant random access because the lifetime durability is decreasing with every band pass...
@alterelefant @Heidi again: Of you need to cram Petabytes of Data into a single bank vault box as #offline #backup and expect to handle the tape.maybe once a year, it's fine.
I just think that longterm, both #Tape and #HDDs eill be superseded by #Flash and I'm confident that with the massive enfattening of #Games ideas like the #NeoFloppy / #StiffyDiskDrive will gain demand.
@alterelefant @Heidi As of now, we can see stuff like the #ExaDrive, a 100TB 3,5" SSD for #online - #archival storage.
- As #Helium-filled #SMR-#HDD|s struggle to meet the demand for storage at an acceptable thermal & power envelope and price, #SSD|s will inevitable take over as not only the more robust media but also cheaper, more dense and easier to use.
As for the #NeoFloppy that thing could be made - I'm just not good enough layouting PCBs with the precision needed for #PCIe signalling...
- Needless to say if constant write speed and lifetime in writes is secondary, then a stack of cheap #SATA-SSDs already beats #LTO-9 tapes unless you need to backup literal #Petabytes and need the fancy features like #WORM media.
That being said, it's inevitable that even WORM as a feature may be copied over.
- In fact #ZFS can already offer many features of #LTFS, including read-only snapshots and thus append-only #archives.
Until there are #COTS solutions tho, LTO #Tape and other options will OFC remain dominant and relevant.
- Still I'd happily see storage vendors take up the NeoFloppy and build something off it.
Apicultor π@kkarhan >a stack of cheap #SATA-SSDs already beats #LTO-9 tapes unless you need to backup literal #Petabytes and need the fancy features like #WORM media
Data retention is a fancy feature now? Sure, flash beats tape if you don't mind returning to blank SSDs after a couple of years in storage.
@apicultor @alterelefant @Heidi Well, Flash does retain data quite good.
Also OFC one should regularly examine and rotate backup media.
- If you want to go hardball, you'd choose to #archive on #microfilm and put those rolls in argon-filled aluminium barrels in a bunker, Like #Germany did for it's most significant history until 1990.
Granted, there are multiple options re: #backup and rarely does one need superfast fast, near-zero latency and extemely high capacity backups.
- OFC you get what you paid for and if you choose the cheapest SSD you can buy that isn't a #China #ScamDisk with manipulated TF cards in a RAID-0 enclosure, chances are stuff will work fine.
Proper handling and storage is key OFC but that also applies to #Tape.
How Capcom's clever CPS2 Arcade Game Copy Protection stopped bootleg games | MVG
Arcade Game bootlegging was rampant in 80s and 90s with many arcade manufacturers including Capcom in the firing line with their CPS1 arcade hardware. But Ca...
@kkarhan >Well, Flash does retain data quite good.
Sure, if you consider 101 weeks "quite good". Source: JEDEC JESD218A standard, data retention at 25ΒΊC
@apicultor @alterelefant @Heidi Again, that's the minimum spec.
- Most flash will retain data longer, and also 101 weeks is almost two years and I think that any decent #backup system should've turned around said Flash by then at least once.
#VerifyYourBackups and #TestYourBackups applies to EVERY MEDIA...
And if you want to see #flash rated for #archival use, there are already such disks as part of #Tandberg's #RDX lineup - which is basically an overpriced proprietary HDD & SSD cartridge system.
@kkarhan @apicultor @Heidi I would go as far as twenty years. I would refresh a LTO tape every five years. Most data that needs to be stored from a compliancy perspective usually has a retention period of ten years. After that most data is not needed anymore and can be destroyed or written over. Anything else is migrated to the new storage system. By then they are probably selling LTO-11.
@alterelefant @apicultor @Heidi OFC...
- Abeit some stuff has longer retention periods (i.e. medical records have 35 years since last visit / day of death of a patient), but those rather get microfilmed/printed out instead.