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Randahl Fink“The world is made up of herbivores and carnivores. If we decide to remain herbivores, the carnivores win.”
— French President Emmanuel Macron after the US reelection of Donald Trump, November 7, 2024.
Mike Gifford, CPWA @FOSDEM@randahl Interesting perspective... There are many types of power, and Trump/Musk are just one.
Nils Hammer@randahl Macrons statement is so utterly wrong. Ask the Lions why they don’t hunt Elephants or Gnus. You don’t need to become a predator yourself to prevent being eaten.
🇺🇦 Myke 
@nshr @randahl sure. Except European countries are more like lazy cows right now, than elephants and gnus. Relaxed and full of food, sure that the world is theirs and everything will always be as good as now. No care in the world.
A #war in #Europe? Whatever. North Korean troops in #Ukraine? Don’t matter.
It cannot go on like this. Either Europe will recall how to protect itself and strike back at aggression or it will seize to exist.
Mnemosina
mariaurea@mariaurea @nshr @randahl and yet nobody seems to worry. It’s at the same time disappointing and very interesting to observe.
Craig P@randahl Yeah, let's be weasels instead of those tiny, cowardly, weak herbivores like elephants, horses, bulls, stegosauruses...
@Mnemosinee Are you parking weasels there?
The point is, people think of carnivores as big and in charge, but in reality they're usually opportunists and bullies.
@Craigp No, Craig, the point is we need to prevent another Bucha in Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania. Can we please focus on arming ourselves against Russian imperialism and occupation instead of worrying about micro aggressions to stegosaurus?
@Mnemosinee but herbivores have better weapons and are better armed. Carnivores are just murderous, idealizing them is a bad sign.
@Craigp Yes, that's totally the issue here.
skua@Mnemosinee @Craigp
You seem to think that ignoring the OP is the best way forward.
I see that later on in this thread you've presented good reasons to do that.
@skua This week I'm really sensitive to any signs of some politician going right-wing bully-boy fascist, for obvious reasons.
@Craigp
I think your response to the OP was reasonable.
That quote in the OP was very troubling.
@skua @Craigp I can't even imagine how troubling it must be to be a Ukrainian who maybe had 3 hours of sleep last night between raid alarms and counting the dead in Odessa and Kharkiv, knowing sufficient aid to defend yourself isn't coming, then logging in to Mastodon to read that what we really need in debates about EU defence is a sensitivity read. I'm deeply embarrassed for all of us and hope no Ukrainian has wandered in here.
@Mnemosinee when a politician tells you they want to kill and eat people, believe them.
@Craigp Where, Craig? Where did he say that? Can you drag the cursor to 10:57, start listening and point us to the timestamp?
https://www.youtube.com/live/LDfOTub2MLc?feature=shared
(See, this is where twitter is missed, you'd be getting flooded by Spanish guys offering themselves as a snack to him by now, instead of having to do basic media literacy...)
L’intervention du Président Emmanuel Macron au Sommet de la Communauté politique européenne.
@Mnemosinee You have fun with him, then. Hope it turns out better for you than everyone else that's ignored flagrant right-wing propaganda.
@Craigp Which you've constructed in your can't-even-read-the-original-language head out of a headline in Mathias Döpfner's rag. 👏
@Mnemosinee I honestly hope you believe in him not going far-right fascist. And obviously I hope he doesn't.
@Craigp Yeah, I've heard that one before about Azov and Zelensky and Ukrainians, much wringing of hands based on Kremlin propaganda about fascists, which in the Russian definition=anyone not Russian. You have all the information now, from the source, good luck with improving media literacy.
@Mnemosinee HAHAHAH, nevermind, you're a troll. Goodbye.
@Mnemosinee
I know from personal experience that communicating on a topic I have some knowledge and understanding in when others have only a misleading and out of context snapshot to go on is difficult.
And that's without folk dieing around me.
Good luck.
@randahl On behalf of all non-meat eaters who understand why the fuck having the military capabilities to prevent another Bucha in Estonia or Lithuania is NOT an insult to your vegan lunch or your favourite elephant conservation: I'm sorry, we're not *all* like this.
@Mnemosinee I do agree on the necessity for strength (even and especially military). I do NOT agree on becoming like your opponent as a necessity to defend yourself. That’s how i interpreted Macron’s statement as I read it in this thread. And that’s what my anology was about.
Sorry for obviously having triggered something.
@randahl
@nshr @randahl This is where speaking French and going to the original content might help instead of reading bite pieces in English out of their context. No, the point is not to become LIKE your opponent, the point is to arm ourselves in Europe to defeat our opponent and stop him from eating us. And by us, I mean the most vulnerable in the herd (hint: it's not his country, they have nukes, nobody's invading France).
@nshr @randahl tldr: don't read Politico. Politico is owned by Axel Springer and ran by Mathias Döpfner. People who only followed the summit this quote comes from via the Politico headline, have it floating about without context because that's the lazy way to follow EU politics: in English only, from a right-wing rag all of Brussels treats to access in excess for coverage. Compare to the full speech and we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?
Bernd Kilga (@[email protected])
Attached: 1 video After the US election, I was completely depressed for two days. Strangely enough, #Macron's speech helped me to get out of this almost catatonic state. Perhaps it will help you too. 🖖
FirefighterGeek 
Directly relates to a question I asked yesterday.
Do you think France, Germany, and to some extent other NATO countries in the region will step up to fill in the role the US is almost certainly going to vacate?
Wilfried Klaebe@FirefighterGeek Relating to the ruZZian aggressions: We must. Otherwise we'll be next.
@FirefighterGeek but if Europe decided it was time to load the guns, which side would the US be on?
From January 20, the commander in chief will be Putin's biggest fanboy.
@randahl There's a limit to how cozy Trump can be with Putin.
We saw that last time around. He'll be able to justify pulling us out of Ukraine by claiming fiscal issues and calling it a stalemate that is killing people.
If Europe sends in troops to Ukraine, I don't know that you'd get US support readily.
If Russia gets more aggressive with a NATO country, even Trump would have a difficult time staying out.
@FirefighterGeek I hope you are right. At the moment I am not even sure, Trump will allow EU countries to donate more US made weapons. And if we ignore his demand, then what?
The most positive thing I have heard this week is, Trump cannot afford to leave NATO, because it could have enormous consequences for US weapons contacts, should the EU steer away from the US weapons industry. Even with Trump, money talks.
Michael 🎇 @randahl who else in the world produces high quality and technologically advanced weapons (and in high quantities too) to make EU steer away?
@michael a long range of EU countries.
@randahl Money talks loudest.
The Military Industrial Complex in the U.S. as warned by Pres. Eisenhower is set up so that there is an important factory or base related to each service and each major weapons program in virtually ever state. Any Senator then, who wants to cut those programs, faces his own constituents' ire over lost jobs and revenues.
Everyone wants the Congress to cut the pork, but their own guy better bring home the bacon.
@FirefighterGeek Yes, I think so. But since we are a union of countries and not a country, or is much more difficult for the EU to act swiftly and decisively in matters of security politics.
With Germany being the largest player, a lot depends on the March election in Germany. If the German people vote for isolationism, I fear that will be the last straw for Ukraine.
Nonya Bidniss@randahl A strange way to describe things. Not sure what he means to do.
LisaH