The official Mastodon app (and most other Fediverse apps) do not collect any data about you.
When you sign up on a Fediverse server, it asks for the minimum amount of information (an email address and a password) and none of this info goes to the app or app makers.
This is in stark contrast to other social networks which seem to collect lots of personal info. See the attached image for a comparison of the privacy policies of various official social network apps.
@edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak @FediTips
Well, it is certainly better than Threads, but how do you think Bluesky plans to make a buck? It's you. Your content and your personally identifying data. If you are cool with that, go for it.
@mariuszklimczak @edward_jazzhands @FediTips
It's all good. You do you.
@mastodonmigration @mariuszklimczak @FediTips
I'm on Mastodon because I love the whole idea of a voluntary decentralized network. But at the same time... I'm also not like super opposed to the concept of a company needing to use some of my data to sell targeted advertisements, so they can make some money doing it. Being a software developer myself I completely understand that people have mouths to feed and business is business. I -love- l open source software, and I contribute. But it also doesn't pay bills a lot of the time.
If its done in a responsible way, like Bluesky seems like they're trying to, it's not that big a deal. I prefer Mastodon but I'm also not terrified of companies selling me targeted ads. As long as I feel like the company doing this ad brokering is somewhat responsible, its fine.
There's a very big difference between selling targeted ads (while keeping your data inside the company's own databases), and literally selling your data.
@edward_jazzhands @mastodonmigration @mariuszklimczak
BlueSky are a for-profit corporation backed by VC money.
Whenever this structure has been applied to online services, it has inevitably resulted in "enshittification" where initially-reasonable policies gradually spiral out of control into full-scale surveillance. The VC investor-owners will demand ever more growth, and eventually the only way to grow will be to screw users.
VC-funding is incompatible with respecting users in long term.
@FediTips @edward_jazzhands @mastodonmigration @mariuszklimczak this type of fear mongering and hand-wavy prophecies frankly undermine the whole message and merit of the mastodon model.
“We’re better because they are worse, believe me”.
@securescientist @FediTips @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
FediTips did not "fear monger" nor "handwave" they stated facts. Corporate websites need revenue to satisfy their investors. Revenue does not magically happen. They need to sell something to someone. If it is not in app ads it can only be your content and your personal data. In time it will likely be both. That's just facts.
If you are fine with this, that's cool, but that's the way it is.
@mastodonmigration @FediTips @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak that’s just good’ol anti capitalist sentiment. Of course money has to come from somewhere, whether that requires to “screw users” by “disrespecting” them inevitably leading to a “full-scale surveillance” setup is prophetic fear mongering.
Ideology has always been myopic.
@securescientist @mastodonmigration @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
Money does have to come from somewhere, but covering costs and growing profits are two totally different things.
A lot of the essential infrastructure that for-profit activity depends on isn't itself for-profit. For example most roads are just funded to cover costs, they aren't growing profits or even making any profit at all.
@securescientist @FediTips @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
Luca. Not trying to be disrespectful here. But, rather than speak in generalities, please try to think about it from a business perspective. Initially money comes from investors, so they can offer free stuff. But investors only do this to attract users. Eventually the business must make money. So they must sell something. What do you think Bluesky will sell? Serious question. What are their options for making money?
@securescientist @FediTips @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
'Black and white arguements'? Not sure what you mean. You just agreed they will sell your user information and you seem fine with that. So, what's the issue? FediTips entire point was that you and your data would become their product. If that works for you, cool. I guess you don't like their terminology, but that's how they and many others view this kind of surveillance capitalism, you just have a difference of opinion.
@securescientist @FediTips @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
It is. Guess you mean that you don't think all surveillance capitalism is bad. In that, you are certainly in the majority, because most people willfully give away all their personal information.
Some of us here on Mastodon are particularly sensitive to the issue because of all the history of abuse. Also in the US we don't have GDPR so the government is not a protection from the worst abuses.
@securescientist @mastodonmigration @edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
Whatever principles are set out are meaningless once the pressure is put on them to grow faster.
BlueSky is very reminiscent of Ello:
https://waxy.org/2024/01/the-quiet-death-of-ellos-big-dreams/
TL:DR:
"Despite their idealist manifesto and their Bill of Rights, I don’t believe they could ever truly be in partnership with their community once they were taking large amounts of venture funding. All of their ideals and big dreams were easily undone, even the legal restrictions they defined in their Public Benefit Corporation charter."
@securescientist @edward_jazzhands @mastodonmigration @mariuszklimczak
It's not "hand-wavy prophecies" or "fear mongering", it's just what has happened and will happen again with orgs that use this particular structure.
If you take investment money you are giving investors power over you. Investors, especially VCs, don't just want to cover costs, they want profit growth. In the online world, that inevitably leads to surveillance and "enshittification". Can you give an example otherwise?
@edward_jazzhands @mariuszklimczak
They don't need to gather that through the app though if they really are a decentralised network.
(But they are much more reasonable requirements though than Threads etc, yes!)
Yeah... what exactly is that? 🤔 I tried looking at Apple's info page and it just describes it as "Sensitive Info". 😬
Good grief... 😬
That is just dystopian. That kind of info could get people arrested (or worse) in countries with repressive regimes. 😞
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Yup, they're all Apple app store screenshots taken today. For example if you search for instagram app store you will get a link to https://apps.apple.com/app/instagram/id389801252
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And is this also the case if one uses the service via browser rather than in the app?
Yes, because the website will only want your login details and doesn't collect other info.
However, as @ekis says bear in mind that Mastodon (and all the other social networks listed) use a database system that the server owner may have access to. In theory a server owner could manually look directly at the database to view private messages, but this would be true on all these social networks.
This particular tidbit is not well known IMO.
Isn't that a well known thing though? Most people here on Mastodon already know that Mastodon is privacy respecting, alongside most Fediverse apps. Don't get how thats a tip.
Also, they are operated by huge greedy companies, of course they'll collect data.
It's the sad truth.
No, not everyone knows.
For example someone replied to this post as follows:
@[email protected] This particular tidbit is not well known IMO.
It SHOULD be common sense though, right?
None that I'm aware of, but there are so many apps available that it's difficult to know about all of them.
Main thing is to check an app's app store privacy section before you install an app (which is where the info in this post came from).
@FediTips What's really amazing is that you don't need to use the official app. Unlike Reddit and Twitter/X that have killed off third-party support, the Fediverse can be accessed through numerous apps.
Decentralisation is the future!
Earlier, @james said there's no audit.
https://bne.social/@james/113335420937205906
@[email protected] A reminder that the App Privacy section in the Apple App Store is self-reported. Apple doesn’t appear to check, other than “providing resources” to help app developers “fill out this information accurately”. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102399
The official Mastodon app is open source, outsiders with the necessary programming knowledge can see all of its workings at any time:
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-android
If it was spying on people, it would be very easy for outsiders to spot it.
The same goes for most third party Mastodon apps as they are mostly open source too.
Where's the "opt" then?
It is worrying that BlueSky is already collecting data they don't need.
"(which Mastodon would then "collect", too)"
No, they wouldn't. The makers of Mastodon's software and the owners of Mastodon servers are totally separate things.
Most people are on third party Mastodon servers which have no connection to the makers of Mastodon's software or the official apps.
This is one of the points of decentralisation, to avoid having any kind of central control point.
The reason to believe otherwise is to compare the entry for Mastodon and BlueSky.
According to their app store entries, Mastodon collects nothing, BlueSky collects something.
This is the point of my original post with its comparisons of screenshots from app stores.
Ahh okay... that's an interesting point. It would be good to have more info on that.
A useful comparison of the privacy policies of various social network apps. Most collect a lot of personal data (you are the product): Mastodon and other Fediverse apps do not. Bluesky is much better than X, for now, but this may change: see 👇 https://social.growyourown.services/@FediTips/113335045675571157
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