Jon WorthI’m at #Innotrans all day. I’ll sporadically post in this thread.
First impression: CRRC (Chinese manufacturer) has the main advert at Messe Süd
And here it is! The most stupid rail vehicle currently produced. A hydrogen tram 🤬 Hyundai-Rotem #Innotrans
The Talgo electric locomotive for DB - series 105 - is here. They didn’t already build 19 of these I hope? 🤔 #Innotrans
Končar has a battery electric multiple unit here. That seems to charge only from a cable, not from an overhead wire in a terminus #Innotrans
And if you’re going “what’s wrong with a hydrogen tram?” you’re going to be dealt with totally scornfully. Put up a wire. That’s it. #Innotrans
As is a Stadler built new U-Bahn for Berlin - for the narrow profile lines. This is built super solidly, and is more roomy than existing designs. Impressive design. #Innotrans
There’s an Alstom Coradia Max EMU. Mix of single and double deck carriages. Inside it feels cramped - feels like they’re trying to cram in too many seats. #Innotrans
Warning Oslo. We’re going to be remotely controlling a tram in Oslo from Berlin. Fingers crossed the internet connection is solid. 🙂 #Innotrans
For the record: the tram is in a depot 🙂 #Innotrans
Now talking Western Balkans at #Innotrans
The DG of Macedonian Railways is here 🤯
Och Menno@jon the Fax from Berlin will be there in time …
Daniel@jon but maybe not for long? 😏
Marc-Oliver Schaake@jon Train driver’s dream: Work from Home policy!
Lukas 🎢🇨🇭@jon I mean it's what they're saying 🤡
But has anyone told them, you would get more capacity if all coaches are double decker? 🤭
@K1ngdaKa88 I like the mix on Siemens Desiro HC. Lots of luggage? Go in single deck. Want a seat? Double deck. But Alstom doesn’t seem to have this clarity of thinking.
Michael Ummels (Trassenfinder)@K1ngdaKa88 @jon Double deck coaches do not match well with the requirement to have level boarding at a platform height of 76 cm.
@K1ngdaKa88 @jon I believe they learned from their mistakes. 😅
@K1ngdaKa88 @jon For Baden-Württermberg it would be best to have a PRM area in a car with both 55cm and 76cm entry as in SBB's Giruno. Unfortunately. they missed that chance with both the Desiro HC (whose PRM area is only accessible from 55cm) and with the new Coradia Max trains (where all doors will be at 76 cm platform height).
@ummels @K1ngdaKa88 ODEG Siemens Desiro HC fixed this.
Aslak Raanes@jon @ummels @K1ngdaKa88 This https://www.odeg-nes.de/unsere-zuege/desiro-hc ?
It would have been nice to have this but in addition Swedish/Norwegian loading gauge.
(Einsatztemperatur: –25 °C … might be a problem in the nordic countries)
Ignas Kiela@jon well they do say "maximized capacity"
would seem to need a bit more natural lighting in the second deck, feels a bit dim there
would seem to need a bit more natural lighting in the second deck, feels a bit dim there
dogfood@jon How much of the inside will be adapted according the buyer specs?
Planes will be reconfigured according to the „wishes“ of the airlines (so and so much seats) – but I suppose train carriages doesn't have the same flexibility or do they?
@dogfood Some. But even the vestibules are tight. You can’t change that. Or the poorly designed stairs.
Quixoticgeek@jon isn't this what NS wants to replace the VIRM with ?
@quixoticgeek I can’t remember who won that contract. Did Alstom win?
@jon my bad. It's CAF. Similar idea tho. Mix of single and double decker.
@quixoticgeek Single - double deck mix is fine. Siemens does it well. So CAF could I presume.
@jon as yet I have no opinion on it. But no doubt NS will find some way to screw it up...
@quixoticgeek NS will probably make it totally charmless but functional.
@jon my initial reaction is they are replacing VIRMS with trains with a lower capacity. When they already don't have enough capacity on a lot of trains they run. So many NS stations have giant platforms, and yet they insist on 4 car trains with bonkers dwell times.
@quixoticgeek do it right and you can get v low dwelling times with a single-double deck mix. If you do it we…
@jon so this is an SBB only option then :p
Jos Dingjan@quixoticgeek @jon I mourn the original VIRM paint job - the updated one is bleh.
Another charmless but functional.
@happydisciple @jon what was the original? What do you think of the new "flow" version?
@jon @quixoticgeek Original is grey upper front/top, blue band starting from the doors going via the upper deck, separate blue band for the lower deck.
Flow is the bleh one - boring patterning (‘cept for the NS logo in white), and the blue paint is a touch too purple. We’ve gone from 3 non-yellow contrasting big elements to one.
Lasse Gerrits@quixoticgeek @jon sorry, only saw this now. CAF indeed.
@jon @quixoticgeek CAF did, with something looking similar to the Desiro HC
@quixoticgeek @jon Replace-and-augment DDZ, I thought? https://nieuws.ns.nl/ns-bestelt-60-nieuwe-dubbeldekkers-sneller-en-meer-stoelen/
NS bestelt 60 nieuwe dubbeldekkers: sneller en meer stoelen
NS bestelt 60 nieuwe dubbeldekkers bij de Spaanse treinfabrikant CAF. Gisteren is hiervoor het contract ondertekend. Het bijzondere aan deze trein is dat deze uit enkeldeks- en dubbeldeksrijtuigen bestaat. Hierdoor biedt de trein een hoge capaciteit aan zitplaatsen en een verbeterde toegankelijkheid voor mensen in een rolstoel door de gelijkvloe...
@happydisciple @jon the DDZ is in desperate need of replacement. It's second only to ICM stock for least pleasant to use.
@jon @quixoticgeek DDM and DD-AR were cromulent when introduced; DDZ didn’t turn DD-AR into intercities, they remained “stoptrein” in nature.
I (still) quite like ICM, apart from access & accessibility issues galore.
@happydisciple @jon as someone who usually travels with a bike. The ICM is a horrible experience.
@jon @quixoticgeek That’s some of the access & accessibility issues, yeah.
@jon Will be interesting to see how these compare to the units for Baden-Württemberg, which are supposed to be equipped with a "premium" interior.
So sehen die 130 neuen Doppelstockzüge fürs Land aus
Mit den neuen Zügen des Herstellers Alstom baut das Land den Regionalverkehr massiv aus. Rund 2,5 Milliarden Euro werden dafür investiert. Kein anderes Bundesland hat bisher einen so großen Einzelauftrag für Regionalzüge erteilt. Für die Fahrgäste bedeuten die neuen Fahrzeuge mehr Komfort.
Sven Geggus@jon Looks strongly like inside an aircraft from Ryanair given the design.
Apicultor 🐝@jon Maximum density means minimum TCO per seat! Who needs luggage space or a bathroom where you can actually turn around with the door closed?
Richard Kogelnig@jon Gute Fart!
Defizit oder Eugen Brochier@jon
La Centovallina
La Centovallina
Jelle@jon or the tech bro version: Solve the tyranny of the rocket equation ;)
Gurre Vildskägg@jon
So, they need extra special equipment to be possible to use? Defeats the stated use case, I'd say.
So, they need extra special equipment to be possible to use? Defeats the stated use case, I'd say.
@Gurre maybe. But from - say - Split where there are no overhead wires?
david M brooke@jon hmmn interesting: let's say those two chargers are two beefy 150KW ones, 736KWH charging at 300KW at 100% efficiency with no power usage while charging would take about 2,5 hours. Half that if there are also two chargers at the other end. What kind of trips are they planning? I _suppose_ there might be a use case for rural branch lines with low speeds and long turn around times?
Comparably the charge time of a flirt Akku is 15 mins under Catenary (source: Stadler). Thanks for sharing!
@jelle I think around Split or Osijek this might make sense? Perhaps it’s ok in the Croatian context.
@jon I remember a similar type of discussion when electric busses got implemented. Both transport agencies and governments pushed for tons of fast charging points, which are now not always used as much (NL). But I doubt that a train could make it through the day in a similar fashion. Maybe have an hourly frequency during the day, doubling that by overlapping shifts of the trains in rush hour? This is already done with diesel trains, maybe it works with BMUs but just with longer wait times?
samuele963@jelle @jon Could get some bigger chargers tbh, assuming the batteries can charge that fast. It seems like those are CCS connectors, so each would be capable of 360kW, which would take roughly an hour to charge with two chargers. Higher than 150kW chargers are kinda rare because most cars can't really take advantage of them but they are available.
@jon I guess might make sense if you're not planning to electrify any nearby lines, but then those plans aren't making any sense either