This is a remarkable graph.
You might have heard that "EV sales are slumping", "people are starting to avoid EVs", etc.
That's not what's happening.
What's happening is "Tesla is cratering so hard that it's skewing the aggregate market data."
Or, put differently, "Tesla is failing harder than the entire rest of the market is succeeding, combined."
1. My garage is on the opposite side of my house from my electrical panel.
2. My electrical panel is full.
3. Installing a car charger would involve upgrading the feed from the street to support the extra 50A circuit.
4. If you found a qualified, licensed electrician to do that job for $700 including the cost of the charger, please give me his name, because he's the cheapest electrician I've ever heard of.
@jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye When I do road trips I do straight through trips. (half of my annual mileage is my summer beach trip, and I usually do it in a single drive with a 10 minute gas break.
530 miles in about 6 hours. Can't do that in an electric.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye
You would need maybe two charge stops. So it would take 40 minutes total, 30 additional minutes.
Definitely sounds like a dealbreaker to me.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye sure, if youβre driving a Leaf or something.
300 miles and 75% fast charge has become roughly standard.
You charge to 200 at 250 and 450 miles, and roll into the beach with 120 miles in the battery.
@mhoye @ShredderFeeder @CosmicTraveler @jannem
Or spend some extra time 100 miles out to charge 85% (255 miles range) and then roll in with 155 miles range.
@malwareminigun but a bigger battery will still charge quickly to 75% (my car has a bigger battery since itβs heavy).
Smaller batteries will cut down the charge stop time to under 20 minutes, no?
The takeaway is really: yes, itβs a little slower. But often that just doesnβt really matter; sometimes it does.
A scenic location with a view of Pikes Peak. Shared Charging 62.5 KW max. From Scott, the owner: The stations are designed to distribute 62.5 KW, max, and they share a 3-phase 125 KW circuit. I am the only DCFC station in CORE's service area that is not owned by CORE. My peak demand charge is based on my busiest 15 minutes no matter the time of day. If I let a full 125 KW flow for 15 minutes, then my power bill STARTS at ~$1900. Please understand that I do not make money off of these stations, They are a gift to you. They are not here to drive traffic to Margaret's Munchies. They are there for you fellow EV drivers. I wish I could make them faster and less expensive, but I am doing the best that I can.
@drdabbles @arigesher don't think NEVI is going to lower cost, just make available at all. Also unfortunately the places that really need every 50 miles like that (Wyoming, Dakotas, etc.) are not getting it anytime soon because the reason nothing is there is that nothing is there.
Like that stretch of i90 with billboards for > 50 miles in each direction of Wall going "we have a drug store"
On the plus side pretty much every ev does a lot more then 50 miles so this isn't the end of the world
@malwareminigun my poor R1T tops out at 200kW and βonlyβ gets 70 mpgeβ¦
and yet, itβs lovely!
@arigesher *Rivian Drool*
R3 looks even more 80s than my car and I love it
@arigesher
It's kinda funny that my Tesla owning friend and I do one annual road trip to the same place every year, and weve never been able to take his car because there are no Tesla chargers on the route at all (and are very few chargers in general.)
Someday, maybe. Considering the state of Tesla and them laying off the supercharger staff, I'm not holding my breath
@arigesher
That said, if you have a multi car family like a lot of Americans, an EV is a fucking great 2nd car. Low maintenance cost, great resale value, super effective for short trips.
Tesla owning friend bought his pretty much exclusively because his work provides chargers as a perk, so his commutes and all the trips to the store and kid drop-offs and whatnot essentially have zero fuel cost.
@mav I don't commute. At all. I average about 2500 miles a year.
I also drive an old car instead of throwing mine away and upgrading every few years, which is also horrible for the environment.
@ShredderFeeder me too on both counts, we should be friends :)
My car is 16 years old this year, and cars are so expensive now that it's really quite a bit more practical to do maintenance and repair than it used to be; not only is throwing your car out and getting a new one terrible for the environment, but it's also not even effective from a sociopathic capitalist point of view.
@jannem @CosmicTraveler @mav @ShredderFeeder @mhoye chargers are being built out at a good clip. Iβve been able to do roadtrips in California in a Rivian R1T (so no Tesla chargers).
I guess it depends on where you live for now - a temporary problem.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye I do this every month, and regularly need to round trip Seattle to Portland without time to charge. Between that and not having access to a charger at my house or any other location, and it's a completely unavailable solution for me.
That said, I recognize I'm in the vast minority here. Essentially everyone in America should be able to do EVs already even without better infrastructure.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye you can't do that in a normal car either. 530 miles in 6 hours is an average of 88 mph, not accounting for acceleration or deceleration or your gas stop.
If half of your annual mileage is 1,060, you don't need to own a car.
@mhoye @CosmicTraveler @jannem while many people do trips like that doctors and highway safety engineers tell you not to. Take longes breaks for health and safety.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye I think this argument has a few holes. I have a pickup truck, but I don't drive it every day. I drive it when I need to haul something. The rest of the time I'm driving something much more efficient.
Maybe it feels wasteful and really expensive to have one vehicle as a commuter and another just for vacations. But if you're putting literally half of your yearly mileage on during that vacation, both are going to last roughly twice as long.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye My Ioniq 5 can do that in about 6.5 hours. Close enough. And I probably save that half an hour from not needing to go to gas stations most of the time, needing less overall maintenance, etc.
I'm not saying EVs are for everyone, certainly not right now, and I'm not going to rip on someone for getting a reasonable gas car. But saying you can't road trip EVs these days requires putting one's head extremely far in the sand
@ShredderFeeder
You are a dangerous driver and sound not be allowed to drive.
Taking regular breaks is necessary to be able to keep your focus.
If electric cars force people like you to stop and rest, that alone will make roads safer.
@iinavpov my last car accident was 1989 and it wasn't my fault. (Someone hydroplaned into me in a storm in southern California - fuckers don't understand rain at all).
I'll put my driving record up against just about anyone else's
@lyda @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye I wonder what it would take to put EV chargers on the ferries. That would at least be a good use of time.
You should read some articles on lithium mining and it's impacts on the environment before you declare EV's "clean energy"
@lyda @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye
Strip-mining is every bit as bad as oil at destroying the planet...
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye a few things.
First, most lithium isn't strip mined.
Second, we "mined" 100,000 tons of lithium in 2023. We "mined" 5,000,000,000 tons of oil in 2023 (at least).
Third, batteries can (and are) recycled. It's likely that by the 2060s very little lithium will need to be mined.
Fourth, EVs are starting to come out with sodium batteries.
Lastly, charging on ferries isn't ideal until they use wind power (and regen from propellers).
@lyda @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye Sodium batteries are a step in the right direction.. Chinese have been building them for a while now, but Americans like mining shit.
I'm just glad that I'll be long dead before my Mustang becomes illegal.
There's no replacement for displacement.
@lyda As of 2017, most lithium comes from australia, where it is in fact strip-mined. The brine-pools that it's extracted from in chile (now the #2 producer) does horrible things to an area's water table. Same goes for Sodium-ION batteries. Takes thousands of cubic hectares of water to generate a usable amount of salt.
There is NO element that can be extracted from the earth that doesn't damage it.
We need Cold-Fusion, Anti-Matter, or another produce-on-demand power-source before we stop destroying the planet... and the mass-production of both Cold Fusion (Production of heavy-water) and Matter/Anti-Matter reaction (production of anti-matter itself) are still decades off because we're wasting all of our focus on stupid batteries that are just as bad for the environment as the oil they replace.
@ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye It turns out that in order to make the planet a little bit less shitty than we're currently doing, some small behavioral changes might have to be made.
And what the hell are you doing going 90 MPH for 6 hours straight?
mhoye
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