Chris Peters
Ars TechnicaDon’t supersize me: The case for small electric cars instead of big SUVs
Small cars are good for us but bad for business.
Ben Schorr 
@arstechnica My Mustang Mach-E is the perfect size for me. Comfortable to drive, fits both kids in the back with their car seats and still has room in the trunk for groceries.
Mattias Schlenker@bschorr @arstechnica I guess, as a European that owned two Pandas in the 1990s, I will probably say the same for a 4.20m Volvo EX30...
PanopticolaVehicle size is relative, like financial disparity or privilege.
The SparkEV is tiny in comparison, but I can comfortably fit 4 adults or two plus two carseats, and four full grocery bags, but with only a 19KWh battery to lug around. Three more bags if it's carseats and I can use the rear floor. With the seats down I haul furniture, farm supplies, etc. It's not roomy but not really cramped either due to clever use of space.
Vehicular utility depends heavily on design and technique plus expectations. I'm not saying you should use a tiny car for your two-child family needs, but I could (and did).
@Panopticola @arstechnica I'll take your word for it, though from what I've seen of the Spark I'm not sure I'd describe it as "comfortable".
It's certainly true that the SparkEV could be a perfectly good vehicle for some use cases though. Of course even the SparkEV was over $20K if I recall correctly.
Comfort is an extremely relative term, of course. What I mean by that is the surprising leg and headroom in the back. (To clarify, our household members are somewhat average height and mass for canadians.) It's only a 4-seater, so the width is enough as well. The materials are cheap but the seat design is good enough for a day trip, better than many I've had over the years. Not as good as any Mercedes. Better than a Jetta and Escort and any of the trucks or vans I've had.
The ergonomics are pretty good (operability is a comfort thing to me). Large knobs for HVAC, good steering wheel controls, and the wheel comfort itself is great.
The infotainment system is obsolete and painful. Uncomfortable. The dash is pretty usable.
EV costs are high yep but the topic is size optimization for efficiency. Short range batteries and lighter cars means less energy usage all around. If you must use a car, that is.
We're all going on energy diets eh, like it or not.
Uh, and to further clarify where I think we're at if one can afford an EV but aren't rich, we use the 130km range EV for all the short trips, which is the vast majority of them, but sometimes, like yesterday, we need to move 4 or 5 adults and a bunch of supplies, over 150 km, so we have an old CRV for that. If we didn't live in the hilly countryside we'd probably have a sedan or hatchback.
Transition communities and economies are our best hope for survival: evolving but progressive shifts in lifestyle and culture, as rapidly as possible replacing whatever inefficiencies and excess we can.
@Panopticola @arstechnica My wife still drives a gas-powered Subaru Forester. I haven't talked her into replacing that with an EV yet - though if we could find a plug-in hybrid with 3rd row seating in our price range I think she'd be interested.
Maybe don't replace it yet? Seems odd to say but it depends on a lot of variables.
Our 20-year old mini-SUV is more utility than sport and it has lots of life left in it still. Sometimes we really need it, but the daily trips are usually under 50 km so the EV does all of the commute and errands.
If you wait a little longer the options will be much better, and you will be creating less demand in the meantime. Prices are coming down and production is coming online.
I know many people love their hybrids but EV design simplicity is one of the main attractions for me.
John Seghers@bschorr @Panopticola @arstechnica the Pacifica Hybrid Minivan has decent electric range for a hybrid and plenty of seating
@xaritech @Panopticola @arstechnica The Pacifica is a bit more expensive than we were looking to spend though. At the moment my wife is leaning towards the Toyota Sienna Hybrid.
Felix@bschorr @arstechnica What car doesn’t fit kids? How big are the kids? Technical drawing appreciated lol
@weltraum @arstechnica My Dad's Mazda Miata wouldn't be great for my kids. ;-)
Unabogie has voted Kamala!Undeniably true. Cars so tall that you can't see a child standing in front of you are horrifying. They are so heavy that no pedestrian can survive if you hit them. They cost so much because of all the extra materials. It's a horrifying arms race to stay "safe" when in reality, we're killing ourselves.
Shoogle@arstechnica This reminds me of when I lived in Phoenix in the 90s... Nothing but massive trucks and SUVs on the road, and it was extremely rare to see more than one person in them. They could carry an army, but it was always just one person behind the wheel, engulfed by an absurdly large vehicle.
These people pay monstrous amounts of $$$ to fill their ridiculous, unnecessary beasts with gas...which of course they *always* complain about. It's crappy, but the #schadenfreude is real...
Ingo@arstechnica Yes, please!
scififan@arstechnica I'd love a small car, but I have 3 little kids in various kinds of car seats. We own 1 car and it's a Honda CRV, the smallest, most efficient, single vehicle that can fit 3 car seats, and then only *just* barely.
I'd love an article on options for people like my family. Car seats of some kind (infant, full seats, boosters) are *required* here up through age 8 so it's not just waiting out a year or two either.
Joe@arstechnica @scififan I always think about this when I read articles like this. Car seats are safer but they are also a lot bigger than they used to be and it definitely contributes to the demand for larger cars. A lot of small cars can’t even fit one car seat easily!
QuarterSwede@scififan @arstechnica Yep. We’re a family of 5 and 0 of the regular size cars or SUV’s fit all of us anymore (7 through teen). We ended up buying at Mazda CX-90 PHEV, which, while it didn’t have the most on paper space in the 3rd row, actually had the most usable leg and feet room of all of that class vehicle we got into while being the easiest to access the 3rd row. Wife wouldn’t buy a van because all of the AWD vans are more expensive and went over budget. To offset, I’m looking at a MX-5. 😉
*sigh*Ber nard@arstechnica suspicious resemblance? But with the headlights not screwed on...
Renault 5 1972
Renault 5 1972
ZS@brnrd @arstechnica Your picture is of an early 90s Phase 2 Renault 5. The pink thing in the OP is a prototype Renault 5 from the early 70s.
The R5 was replaced by the Clio in the early 90s, now on their 5th or 6th generation, and about to be replaced by the all-EV Renault 5.
@ZS @arstechnica there I was, thinking the picture in the OP is some new EV "RS Diamant" car...
notchrist@arstechnica I WANT SMALL CARS AHHHHHH. FUCK SUV'S
Take It EV Podcast 🎙️@arstechnica @siracusa tiny margins , mate. So higher the price tag - the more money they make
Spectacled Langour@arstechnica is that an electric Renault 5? Sign me the heck up
Benjamin Reed@arstechnica @siracusa I _want_ a smaller car, looking to replace my model 3, and the non-SUV choices are comparatively slim. It’s frustrating.
frankbeutell@arstechnica @siracusa we just bought a small but super practical Renault Zoe and plan to sell our bigger Volvo V40 (which is so small by US standards that they only start with the the bigger V60 there). If we need a bigger car for a trip or other things we just get one via our local car sharing service. Just by reducing the number of cars of our family we save about 250-300€ of fix costs each month. Also, the Zoe is so much more practical in our kinda medievalish European city.
TheAnymouseProphet@arstechnica
The problem with small cars (electric or otherwise) is the @55hats in trucks with lift kits and bright LED headlights. You get blinded by them.
The problem with small cars (electric or otherwise) is the @55hats in trucks with lift kits and bright LED headlights. You get blinded by them.
continuousorbit@arstechnica - tell me you’re an American without saying you’re an American…
Vaguely here 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈@arstechnica #alt4u picture shows the Renault 5 Diamante concept car.
Transport Evolved Official@arstechnica Preaching to the choir here!
Jeffrey T. Davis@arstechnica Policy- (and culture-) wise we need, for now, a subsidy preference for PHEV. Yes, they're not as good as EV for decarbonization and engineering, but batteries are still expensive and effectively hoarded, 75% unused, in big battery lux cars. Small battery PHEVs are accessible today and the place to find fleet emission gains in the short term.
EmpiricismPerhaps when more severe climate change affects more americans they may start to think differently about their "love affair with massive cars" lifestyle.
A.C. Tupper@arstechnica I wonder if a manufacturer-level incentive that goes carrot/stick based on a model's weight relative to a rolling average of vehicle size could successfully nudge things in the right direction. I.e. A vehicle sold that's under the average size nets the manufacturer a subsidy, whereas a vehicle over that average incurs a penalty relative to its deviation from the average.
Also wonder whether volumetric might be a better tool for reigning in size rather than weight.
Neil E. Hodges@arstechnica How about motorcycles, motorscooters, and e-bikes replacing single-occupancy vehicles when the weather is appropriate? @average_ebiker
Mark Crocker@arstechnica the link in the article for the [The electric 2020 Mini Cooper SE: Big driving fun, little driving]( https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/05/the-electric-2020-mini-cooper-se-big-driving-fun-little-driving-range/ ) sounds much better than I might have expected.
Now, if I could just get one without an insecure, privacy invading, payment extracting, head unit, I might actually consider one. Then again, it's pretty heard to find any new cars that aren't equipped like that 😡
Ton@arstechnica BMW i3 driver here, perfect car! Get one while you can and tell BMW they made a mistake dropping it.
xs4me2Loks like a Renault 5…
Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle@arstechnica whose business?!
natriumchloride@arstechnica i love small cars too bad they twnd to be either overpriced or difficult to find
Lee 🌏@arstechnica
People will only embrace smaller cars of bigger cars are regulated (disincentivised)
The desire to feel safe on the road trumps all other. As long as people buy ever bigger more powerful vehicles, smaller cars will never catch on. Giant trucks are lethal weapons and should be regulated like them. But in America....
People will only embrace smaller cars of bigger cars are regulated (disincentivised)
The desire to feel safe on the road trumps all other. As long as people buy ever bigger more powerful vehicles, smaller cars will never catch on. Giant trucks are lethal weapons and should be regulated like them. But in America....
SellaTheChemist@arstechnica And bicycles are always better for us.
Hypx@arstechnica You are engaging in wishful thinking. People will keep on buying big vehicles. It is a fantasy to think that people will switch to small BEVs. The real solution is to build #hydrogen cars and accept the reality of what people want to buy.
Doug Jayne@arstechnica I agree, having owned a Fiat 500, small cars are great. However all my friends are well over 200lbs and literally struggle to fit in a modern Camry.
Thomas Cheng@arstechnica Small cars forever. So sad that there just aren’t that many options nowadays.
Marc Etienne@arstechnica right now, the car I want is the Fiat 500e. That and the electric Smart models fit my needs.
But really, all I really want is more buses and commuter rail so I don't have to drive at all.
John Manoogian III@mimsical a good read. Feels tough to pull us out of the “bigger is better” spiral, sadly, when F=ma and range is effectively the new horsepower/megahertz
Dag Øien@arstechnica I’ve had this one for 12+ years now, and it’s still great and cute. A "kei" car, it’s the smallest highway-legal passenger car size class in Japan. Easy to park.
@arstechnica Trains for long range and bikes for short range are the best.