Pup Otis
Despite everything, it's still 
but not for long lolI've long believed that the crucial advantage of the term "queer" over the acronyms is that it acknowledges that diversity is not something you can exhaustively enumerate. we must be always prepared to embrace diversity that we hadn't considered before. this is the most consistent inclusivity
it also avoids listing them *in a specific order*
Woozle Hypertwin@lewdum It also also avoids listing them, which means that malicious parties can't carefully exclude one or more subgroups. (Thinking of "LGB Alliance", in case that wasn't obvious.)
AnthonyJK-AdminMaybe, but LGB Alliance is so socially conservative and anti-sex to begin with that they would also repudiate that term anyway.
"Queer" in my mind fits as a nice amalgam for all of the sexual orientations that are targeted by the Right. You could still use specifics if you want to define particular subgroups, but "queer" has the advantage of implying that the opposition to their humanity is based on them being sexual "outlaws" & not "normal" cis folk.
Also, just as it is possible for White folks to be antiracist/socialist and people of color to support White Supremacy, it is also just as possible for non-cis folk to be very socially & sexually conservative if not reactionary, and for "cis" folk to be radically supportive of queer/sex radical thought.
𒀭Wiiお姉さん 💜 🏳️⚧️@woozle those people have been calling queer a slur for a long time now, precisely because they cannot use it to exclude anyone. Our choice of words will never have much of an influence on their hate; speaking up is the only thing that works (specially those LGB people that these bigots claim to speak for)
@darkwiiplayer Choosing and reclaiming words won't stop the hate, but can make it more difficult to spread it.
It's kind of hard to get someone upset by calling them a name if they embrace it.
fops Now On Merping Synth Download@lewdum as a bonus it also pisses some people off because its a reclaimed slur iirc
aven⚧️@lewdum I think it also completely embraces those of us for whom labels are evasive. Calling myself “queer” allows me so much freedom to both be myself and continue to explore those parts of myself that I have not yet discovered.
Feygele Ⓐ Ⓥ🏳️⚧️🍉@lewdum At least once a month I have to slowly explain to a well-meaning cishet or stodgy old cis white gay that we are not slurring the youth in our youth center with our tagline that includes the term “queer youth”. The youth themselves prefer that inclusive, reclaimed term. We’re just following their lead. It’s THEIR center, they get to decide.
Theresa O’Connor@lewdum this is why I’ve liked “GSM” (gender and sexual minorities) over continuing to add letters to the end of LGBT. Re: the word “queer”, I have a couple of friends who really dislike that word themselves, so I tend to only use it to describe myself, not others.
Rob Bos@lewdum People can identify their group however they prefer, but yeah, this outsider would prefer not having to memorize a string of letters that seems to expand randomly and is occasionally in a different order. >_>
Alisdair Calder McGregor
lori@lewdum this is exactly it to me this is the exact opposite of 15 year olds trying to make a thousand wikis of every possible sexuality any person anyone could ever have
levampyre@lewdum That's exactly why I identify as "queer", not as any of the listed lgbtqia+ letters. You cannot put my queernes neatly into a box and put a single label on. Actually, I don't fucking care, if I'm lesbian, pan, omni or bi. Whatever. It doesn't matter. There are people I find interesting and others I don't and it really isn't so much a question of their specific genitalia or how well they fit into the behavioural role of the sex I read them as.
rhizome@lewdum
A friend describes queer as the politics of gay(+) subculture, which can be held by anyone.
A friend describes queer as the politics of gay(+) subculture, which can be held by anyone.
Serendipity@lewdum I understand/like your point except that "queer" also has a negative connotation to me, a cis woman. Why should anyone be considered odd or be defined by a "peculiar" label?
Morgan ⚧️@evewrites @lewdum the usage of queer by queer people is a *celebration* of difference. Yeah, we're different, and that's awesome because conformity is boring!
Offense at being called different is assimilationism, which never works. The only way to assimilate into cisheteropatriarchy is to be cishet and obey gender roles. Otherwise fascists *will* hate you no matter what you do.
Offense at being called different is assimilationism, which never works. The only way to assimilate into cisheteropatriarchy is to be cishet and obey gender roles. Otherwise fascists *will* hate you no matter what you do.
@evewrites also you didn't specify whether you'd be included under the queer label, just that you're cis. Obviously you don't have to disclose your sexuality, but if you're also not gay or lesbian or ace or bi etc, I encourage you to mind your own business.
@lewdum @evewrites Why would someone want to assimilate?
Siderea, Sibylla Bostoniensis> Why should anyone be considered odd or be defined by a "peculiar" label?
Are you really so conformist you can't imagine there are people who take pleasure in being recognized as nonconforming?
ProcedurallyGenerated@lewdum I don't even think the queer spectrum is enumerable but larger that the natural numbers,more like the continuum of real numbers or probably even bigger.the word continuum fits more cleanly anyway than for example whatever hemidemisemiromantic would mean for a point in that set.
This is a queer maths joke.
Jimmy Holloway@lewdum interesting!
nonlinear@lewdum Yup. Enumerating differences still frames them as away from the norm. That's the whole point of queer theory in fact, a flip of the table. Fuzzy borders are a strategy.
Bill HookerHuh. You have neatly made sense of something I sort of half-thought but never articulated for myself. Thank you!
Tim Bray@lewdum I’ve generally preferred “queer” to LGBTQIA2S+ etc for the same reasons I preferred “Black” to African-American. Short, strong, inclusive.
[Obvs it's their call, not for people like me. But I can applaud.]
Richard Gadsden@timbray @lewdum Black covers a lot more people than African-American as well. Sometimes it's useful to narrow the view to Americans, but it's better to do that deliberately and consciously.
I still remember the American news announcer describing Nelson Mandela as the first African-American President of South Africa.
Maggie Maybe
gignosko@lewdum This so we’ll put. I chose queer for myself decades ago because “bi” didn’t solve the binary problem of gay vs straight. This is a much better description.
Miakoda 
@lewdum *except Nazis. Never be inclusive to Nazis.
Claudia Caesaris 🏳️⚧️🥚@lewdum This is exactly how I've thought about the word for ages and didn't know how to explain.
Drew Breunig@lewdum Have been thinking about this a lot recently and arrived at this point. Let’s not trade a binary for a structured taxonomy.
Salsa Gal@lewdum Yeah, this is why I like the phrase GRSM (gender, romantic, or sexual minority) since it's not trying to enumerate through everything so it includes everything
ungivishe@ungivishe @lewdum Nah, it's not demeaning, it just means it's not the majority, which queer people definitely aren't
David Penington@lewdum a slight disadvantage of "queer" is that it may be taken to mean "homosexual" when the user is bi or otherwise actually open to a relationship with the hearer that homosexuality would exclude.
Ali@lewdum Several letters appy to me, so Queer fits best and is just tidy
2¢@lewdum besides, I can't remember all the characters in the latest enumeration.
Just JenE@lewdum 💯 It includes without needing to add more letters (like should demi be listed as well as ace 🤷♀️). Simple is often better for support from people who might not necessarily understand
llanciawn@lewdum I hate acronyms generally.
Yora@lewdum I do not use any acronyms for people.
I find it dehumanizing.
I find it dehumanizing.
Polly Kraisus@lewdum i also love the concept of "queerness as the norm" and "straightness as a chimera", completely upending what many think normalcy or the majority are.
@lewdum this is one of the reasons I like the + in LGBT+. It doesn't matter what acronym you use, I'm included if there's a + at the end.
One of the organisations I'm a member of puts out a magazine called just "Plus", which I love as a name.
But yes, Queer has exactly the same vibes.
kimu@lewdum I’ve been thinking about this one since I saw your toot, and I think you’re spot on. I can’t really see using the alphabet acronyms to describe myself (not really a fit in the current versions), but queer certainly applies.
Elizabeth@lewdum I agree that’s a big plus. Are there any disadvantages? I was thinking sometimes if you don’t list things, the more people with more power/privilege can take over the term. Not saying that has happened with queer but just thinking
Scott Purdy@lewdum I agree with this, but as someone who started identifying as NB in their 40s and a staunch order Muppet, I’d also love to have a word that clearly conveys my sexuality when people ask. I’m still attracted to the same set of women and femme-trending individuals, but “straight” isn’t right anymore and any other answer is either confusing to cis/straights (“bisexual” to mean “women and NBs”?) or, like “queer,” unhelpfully vague. So people ask and get a paragraph-long explanation.
Mandy Mac
Ginnikin@lewdum I agree wholeheartedly, but my experience is that this is a minority opinion. Another advantage of queer instead of alphabet soup is that it unifies a large group with a lot in common rather than dividing people and potentially turning them against each other.
cyborg@lewdum I just learned that queer was used as a slur.
Never heard that in Europe.
So queer for me just started with queer pride.
I prefer it especially over non-binary which is just a negative.
And if queer is all the letters. That is really great. It means you can be all embracing. Also for new letters that are not included in the list now. And I have seen so many short versions of the letters where I always wonder, did they forget a for a gender or is it on purpose?
Never heard that in Europe.
So queer for me just started with queer pride.
I prefer it especially over non-binary which is just a negative.
And if queer is all the letters. That is really great. It means you can be all embracing. Also for new letters that are not included in the list now. And I have seen so many short versions of the letters where I always wonder, did they forget a for a gender or is it on purpose?
Mute | 🐕🐻⛓️@lewdum bell hooks said if beautifully, "queer as not being about who you’re having sex with - that can be a dimension of it - but queer as being about the self that is at odds with everything around it and has to invent and create and find a place to speak and to thrive and to live."
I treat "Queer" is an ideology as much as sexuality. Queer is in defiance of everything attempting to make it not queer.
Also makes it convenient and easy to call out the anti-queer LGBs that harm progression.
ngoomie is moving!@lewdum it's also pretty hard to intentionally exclude people from "queer" unlike with various acronyms, whether it be LGBTQ+, QUILTBAG, or the dreaded and my least favourite "GLOW" ("gay, lesbian, or whatever" :cat_stare:)
there's no pieces of the acronym to intentionally cut off, terms that can be said to be a part of the acronym by some others but not by others (like i've seen people say the A in LGBTQIA should stand for asexual but not aromantic, for reasons varying from "aromanticism is just a subset of asexuality anyways" to "aro as a standalone label doesn't belong in LGBTQIA because what if some straight guy who wants to sleep around with no consequences gets to call himself aromantic heterosexual and thus LGBTQIA as a shield")
you'd be a clown to gatekeep the word queer, and the people who do the aforementioned gatekeeping are also the sort of people who whine about queer being a slur and thus something nobody should use anyways
there's no pieces of the acronym to intentionally cut off, terms that can be said to be a part of the acronym by some others but not by others (like i've seen people say the A in LGBTQIA should stand for asexual but not aromantic, for reasons varying from "aromanticism is just a subset of asexuality anyways" to "aro as a standalone label doesn't belong in LGBTQIA because what if some straight guy who wants to sleep around with no consequences gets to call himself aromantic heterosexual and thus LGBTQIA as a shield")
you'd be a clown to gatekeep the word queer, and the people who do the aforementioned gatekeeping are also the sort of people who whine about queer being a slur and thus something nobody should use anyways
Meguey-shaped bundle of bits@lewdum This all day!
Dipolemost of my identity isn't covered by "LGBT", but I still find myself legitimately irritated by the ever-expanding initialism, even when one of the added letters describes me. It's missing the point that you describe, and it's also wildly impractical.
I'd very much lean towards a phrase like "queer community" if not for the fact that I occasionally find people vehemently opposed to being called queer. I don't know much about when the word was used as a slur -- that seems to have been before I really started interacting with other LGBT+ people, and I somehow missed most of the *-phobic spaces growing up. But it definitely feels like the only existing word that fits.
I've always felt that the popular "LGBTQ+" was good enough. It covers everyone, most of them at least twice. I lean towards LGBT+ because the + fills the role of the Q, I don't have to worry about the aversion some have to "queer", it still has the recognizable "LGBT", and it's a little less typing.
Flaming June@lewdum We used to have a Museum of Photography here in Bradford, which became the Museum of Photography and Film, and then the Museum of Photography, Film and Television, and then … the Media Museum
James Redekop@lewdum That's why I favour it. There's no way to be completely inclusive of the finer and finer distinctions that can be made about sexuality & gender. We end up falling on using a "+" as a crutch. A single word that covers the gamut is far more useful than trying to specify every possible shade up front.
King Naga Calyo Lucere-Delphi@lewdum I like to describe myself as "queer" because like hell am I going to even attempt to explain my gender to the average person who's just gonna look at me like I'm weird lmfao
But I'm also not gay, and spitting out a tongue twister of letters is an annoying amount of effort. "Queer" says everything about me in exactly one syllable and says nothing more than needs to be said so the conversation can just move on.
TheAnymouseProphet@lewdum
I fully agree but unfortunately there are some queer who reject certain types of queer as valid, and the acronyms help spread the message that all the various sub-types of queer are valid and need to support each other in the fight for dignity and equality both under the law and in the eyes of society apart from the law.
I fully agree but unfortunately there are some queer who reject certain types of queer as valid, and the acronyms help spread the message that all the various sub-types of queer are valid and need to support each other in the fight for dignity and equality both under the law and in the eyes of society apart from the law.