Mastodawn

Farshid Hakimy / فرشید Aug 1, 2023

@fabioromeo you can't expect everything to work fine out of the box for a device that wasn't designed to run Linux.
Also it doesn't look like your device is very old, it may take some time to support every feature of this device.
Maybe it works on another distro like Fedora? You may want to try that if you don't have to stick with something Debian-based.

@farshidhakimy After Ubuntu I tried elementary and Fedora, gave up and went back to Windows 11… Too much work and headaches for something that should just work.

@fabioromeo If you think #linux will just "work" without ever having to touch the #cli, you are under a misconception. Esp. when it comes to features like fingerprint.

Also saying windows 11 just works "flawlessly" is from your limited perspective. Someone else might say they can't do shit on Windows 11 because everything is locked down, hidden behind multitude of gui windows. Also doing simple tasks like changing your #dns takes how many mouseclicks?

#macos #linux #experience #windows

@samurro it took three clicks to install NextDNS: one to download, one to install, one to activate. The same cannot be said about Linux, even using the same software.

And I'm sorry to say, but you may have a limited perspective - the tech guy one. You may need the terminal to do work, so that's why you say people can't do shit thanks to the GUI. I can do everything I need flawlessly, yes, but I'm a graphic designer.

I'd love to use Linux but it is impratical for desktop use. Even when I did coding work I would just use macOS because I had both Unix to quickly spin a LAMP server up, Adobe software to do UI stuff, and a working fingerprint sensor.

Here's a hot take: There is no reason to use Linux as desktop OS if you just want to get things done. Servers and infrastructure has a case, but at home? It's a pain in the ass and only suited to enthusiasts.

@fabioromeo >I'd love to use Linux
You obviously don't, stop lying to yourself or us. Linux is not for "getting things done". Its a choice for freedom to do with your OS whatever you want, not being imprisoned in what #bigtech makes you think you want/need.

Also funny you install some DNS software exe just to change the DNS server? So much for "getting things done".

@samurro it's funny to read it, I'll give you that. I can do whatever I want, except not being blinded by my screen stuck at maximum brightness, or use my fingerprint reader.

But I think you're right, I don't want to use Linux - I want to use Gnome. Unfortunately I cannot install it on Windows nor macOS. I like it's concepts of interaction better that those, but then I'll be stuck with a core held together by an uncooperative mess of tape and wires.

And about the DNS. I installed it, it's working. It's done. Your point is?

@fabioromeo My point is you are installing some random ass software out of the world wide web and discuss #security topics.

Also by what you describe, I can also just recommend the common propositions like #popos or whatever if you are eager to get a #linux just to use #gnome

Also funny you said you can do whatever you want... but using #gnome is not possible? I can make my #linux behave/look like windows 11 or macos...

@samurro well, it's not some random ass software, it's the software from the company I'm subscribing from. It's as random as an app from the repository.

You got me there, I can't do anything I want. I can kinda make Windows works like gnome thought, with the right software and settings, but I can't be bothered by that - it's faster and simpler to use the out of the box experience.

I guess that's what we have in common here: we both can't do anything we want in both systems. X-D

@fabioromeo In regards to your lastsentence: You are very lazy then. :D No offense.

Also I don't even want to look into why you would need a software installation to change your DNS. I will just asume its some script just changing the required value instead of some spying malware which now monitors you internet traffic.

@samurro well, I AM lazy :D. Life already has too many chores and dishes to do, anything that takes work out of the way is a plus in my book. :-P

The reason I have the app is convenience. NextDNS allows me to have a huge adblock list, track what internet addresses are accessed, and I can be really restrictive with my settings. Also, the app allows me to enable or disable it with a click.

Sure, I could set a script to do everything but, as I said, I'm lazy. I'll pay the convenience tax to have this issue solved for me instead of paying with my own time. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. ;-)

Bill Long Aug 2, 2023

@samurro @fabioromeo Meanwhile, in another thread, people are celebrating that linux passed MacOS in terms of Steam player counts. That's what is possible when linux just works.

Of course, that took a huge investment from Valve in getting SteamOS to that point. Getting a linux desktop to that level of usability for non-technical users will take a similarly large investment from someone.

Patrick Aug 2, 2023

@fabioromeo To really get the best of both worlds, just put Windows back on it and then use #ubuntu via #wsl2 (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install).

That way you get all of the hardware support #windows can offer plus a true Ubuntu environment that can run any GUI or cli apps.

Install WSL

Install Windows Subsystem for Linux with the command, wsl --install. Use a Bash terminal on your Windows machine run by your preferred Linux distribution - Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE, Kali, Fedora, Pengwin, Alpine, and more are available.

QuadRadical Aug 2, 2023

@fabioromeo seems like you have a lot of issues, but its not like that for most people. For me, battery life is as good as #windows, screen brightness just works, I have friends who's #fingerprint readers work too. I wouldn't reccomend #Ubuntu however, I would say fedora, or if you plan to game then #nobara. I personally use #nixos but its more advanced.

Jed Baldwin Aug 2, 2023

@fabioromeo hi friendly guy stepping in. I know you’ve had lots of responses from people. If you’d like, I’m happy to listen to your experience and hear more about what went wrong. I’m the type of person who hates using command lines, so I’m curious to learn where things fell apart.

@baldwinjed sure, no problem. Grab some popcorn, I think this will be a bit long. 😄

It all began when I wanted to make a new partition for my drive. My current Windows instal was living in a 2TB SSD and I wanted to put data and system in separated partitions. Thanks to some system files I was unable to shrink the partition, and I was in the mood to nuke everything down, so I erased it and began from scratch.

Since I recently downloaded the latest Ubuntu, I figured to give it a go. Canonical was usually the most supported distro and largely favored by noobs, so why not? How bad could it be?

Well, really bad as I experienced. My machine for personal use and errands is a Galaxy Book2 360 (I have a Macbook for work) and it did not like Ubuntu at all, or Ubuntu did not like my machine. After the install, the screen brightness was locked at the maximum setting, and was the keyboard light. The sound was popping for some reason. I spent a good time looking for a fix, and managed to find an obscure setting that I should add to GRUB by copying and pasting that line to its settings file, then rebuilding the launcher.

Thing is, this apparently was assumed to be common knowledge, the grub thing. So here I go again searching what the heck was the file I was supposed to edit, and how to update the thing with the new setting. After botching the boot for some reason and reinstalling Ubuntu, I managed to get the screen brightness under control. But I still had the keyboard light on without any kind of control, and I left it at that.

A lot of other annoyances started to pile up. The battery life was abismal, and after some searching I installed tlp and powertop, did all the calibrations and settings adjustments, and it barely worked. My fingerprint reader was gone with no way to make it work, as I found no solution in any forums that could make it being recognized. Bluetooth was hit and miss, sometimes worked, sometimes refuses to work, and the same happened to audio. The fans loved to go for a spin for apparently no reason. And the machine was HOT.

I tried to install Thunderbird Supernova, the one with the new interface. It wasn't in the store, so I had to download it from the official site. It's a compressed folder that expands into the app folder, and if I click the executable the app runs. Fine, but it did not show on the Ubuntu dock nor was it in the apps list. So here I go, trying to figure out how to add a shortcut to this app on the dock. I found a way to solve it after a lot of search.

Bear in mind that all that tinkering was happening in the terminal, copying and pasting commands from forums with a rarefied notion of what those commands did. Not great if you ask me.

Then, one day, I got a prompt for a system update. Fine, an updated system is a happy and safe system! So I allowed it... It rebooted, and I was dropped into the command prompt. No error, no explanation. Gnome just stopped working.

At this point I was fed up with Ubuntu and tried Fedora. But then the same issue with the screen brightness happened and I gave up. I installed Windows 11 back, and after half an hour everything was installed, updated and working without hiccups. All I did was to click a couple of prompts, run one installer with all the drivers and BAM, a fully functional system - fingerprint reader included.

It could be an issue against Samsung laptops, but I had a Dell that came from the factory with Ubuntu. It worked out of the box, but the same ugly issues with apps and updates happened there too, so I don't believe that's solely an issue of compatibility. That same Dell laptop worked flawlessly when I installed Windows 10... Go figure.

@fabioromeo thank you for the insight. I don’t think you did anything wrong. In fact, I think you did everything that seemed right. If I may opine, I would say there were a few things that failed you. First, support. When things didn’t work, you went to community. Community is a double edged sword. Forums are quick to provide bad answers for new users.

@fabioromeo Second, expectations. Linux is viewed as perfect for reviving hardware and people think it’s universally compatible. It is, and it isn’t. Linux has first class support from Intel and AMD. Second class support from Nvidia. Third class support from many device manufacturers. No support from the majority of system integrators. This means that the most critical components of a system are deeply compatible with Linux, but many parts that make up a system may have no compatibility.

@fabioromeo I think people talk as though everything is perfect. I love using Fedora. I use it on my desktop and on a Lenovo 2-in-1 laptop. I’m not a developer. I don’t use command line. Fedora doesn’t work perfectly on my laptop. My fingerprint reader doesn’t work. I can’t rotate my screen. Why? Lenovo designed my laptop for Windows. When they chose a fingerprint reader they didn’t consider whether it had a linux driver. They also didn’t contribute to Wayland so that my screen can rotate.

@fabioromeo now full disclosure, there are workarounds available. I tracked down the fingerprint reader manufacturer and found that they have sent a kernel module that exposes the finger print reader in Linux, but I don’t use it. Because I’m not a developer. My laptop works in Linux because AMD provides first class support, but the whole system doesn’t because Lenovo didn’t design it with Linux in mind. That’s the reality. There are SIs that provide first class system support, but not Samsung.

@fabioromeo So back to my original point. You did nothing wrong, but you’ve been failed on a few fronts. Samsung failed because they designed a Windows system and did all the work required to make the system work on Windows. That can’t be done in Linux by volunteers when working with proprietary hardware. The Ubuntu community failed you by giving bad advice. We all failed you by giving you unrealistic expectations. I love Linux, but you are right to use windows on your laptop.

@fabioromeo If you want to give it another shot in the future, try getting a Framework laptop or a System 76 laptop. They both take Linux support very seriously and are willing to provide direct support on your purchase. That way you can talk to someone you can trust when things go wrong rather than relying on well intentioned people who can’t actually help you. And if you want to talk, you can feel free to ask me anything anytime. I’ll try to give less bad answers than the other laymen. 😉

Fabio Romeo Aug 5, 2023

@baldwinjed thanks for yout thoughts! I'll keep a look at Framework and System 76 when the time for a new laptop comes, they sure look like interesting machines. Gnome is coming up with really interesting ideas regarding the window management, and that would be nice to have in a system that works without issues.

Thanks again!