Please stop defederating from general purpose news services, just because they sometimes do a transphobia.
I'm trans, and I'm telling you its worse for me to cut off my news sources than to read those news sources misgender people or whatever.
Seriously, come the fuck on, we just talked about this. Stop making the fediverse into some arcane and impenetrable little clique powered by unwritten rules and endless purity tests.
This is about #bbc, among others
I'm handing out blocks today
I'm so sick of this shit
@jenniferplusplus They shouldn't be immune to any moderation rules an instance has, imo, just because they're a (news) company.
You could just move to an instance with less strict rules, which is kinda the entire point of this whole decentralization thing.
Maybe some instances could make rules specifically to whitelist news accounts and government accounts, since that's finally starting to happen starting with #BBC and the #dutch gov
@jenniferplusplus and I'm trans and I don't want an organization that regularly features hateful fascism to have free reign. No one is restricting your access. You still can get your BBC any which way you care.
There are plenty of other news sources out there, and you are free to move to another server whose moderation polices fit you better.
@jenigrant @jenniferplusplus
Blocking actual news sources is very scary and a slippery slope in my opinion. You might not like the writing style and carelessness of the journalists, but having one or two people deciding what news you can and can't see is very scary, when in history has this ever turned out good?
It's very easy for the individual user to block everything from a specific instance. I definitely understand why having a safe space important, but why should that be forced upon you?
@CodexNotFound @jenigrant @jenniferplusplus leaving it purely to users to block means unless they do it preemptively they have to encounter the bigotry at least once per block target. plus just kinda wastes one of the main benefits of the fediverse which is it's tight moderation making it a comparatively safe place for lgbt people like me.
idk. would you be making this same argument if this was breitbart creating a fedi server? Still a 'news' network, after all.
@eternalwillow @jenigrant @jenniferplusplus I've never heard of breitbart, so no I wouldn't. Do they spread lies (information that can be confirmed through multiple independent sources to be false)? If so then definitely not.
I'm not a fan of the BBC, but they spread actually confirmable information. Their articles are decent but some of their journalists do have an opinion that comes through sometimes, but more than 90% of the content is fine in my book
@CodexNotFound @jenigrant @jenniferplusplus well how nice for you that you haven't been targeted by the BBC writing articles credulously reporting how trans women are allegedly pressuring cis women into sex without even allowing any trans person to add comment.
I'm sure they still write at least some articles that aren't encouraging TERFism but I don't trust them one iota, and more protective lgbt-friendly instances are fully justified in blocking them.
@CodexNotFound for someone coming from a poorly moderated instance, this may sound wild, but I trust my instance admins. I know how to get in touch with them, I know that they'll discuss moderation decisions with the local instance, and I know that they are making decisions in the best interest of our instance.
No one is unilaterally deciding what news I can and can't see, and frankly, I find your line of thinking to be foolish and short sighted. This isn't censorship, it's free association.
@CodexNotFound also, as a cis dude, your opinion ain't worth shit on the BBC's transphobia.
Ain't your lane, get the fuck out of it.
@CodexNotFound as a cis person your views on trans issues are worth zero.
Now fuck off
@[email protected] additionally, as a cis person talking over trans people, you're a shitty fucking ally
Do you do the same thing to women? When you're confronted with your own misogynistic behavior do you clutch your pearls and declare gatekeeping? GTFO
Grow the fuck up kid, CIS GAYS AREN'T TRANS and DON'T GET TO DEFINE WHAT'S TRANSPHOBIA
I'm trans and not sure how I feel about this. I read and subscribe to the US version of the Guardian for example, while being aware that the UK version frequently publishes transphobic articles. So if the US Guardian had a presence here but were widely defederated based on UK's transphobia, I would be disappointed. But if the entire news service promoted transphobia I would be fine with defederation.
@funcrunch @jenniferplusplus
We have certain "news" outlets which are certainly worth a Fediblock. In Canada those include "Western Standard", "Rebel News", "True North", and "Epoch Times". They spread nothing but hate speech and misinformation, never news. They're hate groups with media credentials.
This is VERY different from a legitimate news source like the BBC or the CBC misstepping into transphobia. Mostly because showing our disgust with their coverage should actually make a difference.
Although it should also be noted that being an an lgbt instance should necessitate stricter moderation in this field of offense. Choosing your instance based on what you would like to see is a part of decentralization, and you wouldn't want to take away that power to moderate for those who are specifically looking for that kind of safe space. I'm not trans though. I'm just guessing, and not stepping in that argument. Migrating instances is certainly a cure, though.
@jenniferplusplus The whole reason that Twitter was an effective tool for activists was that journalists and politicians and powerful people were there reading what people had to say.
Defederation should be a tool to prevent CSAM and harassment of the instance’s users. BBC being on here is an opportunity for us to go and harass them when they post transphobic shit.
@jenniferplusplus They are not general purpose anything, they were changed from an impartial national broadcaster to a virtual propaganda arm of the Tories and TERF culturewar.
Trans people's right to human rights is not and has never been a valid subject for debate by legitimate media.
Other than that, I have not seen anyone calling for them to be defederated.
Here's a recent example..."
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/07/04/bbc-pride-news-staff-protests/
@jenniferplusplus I'll see your Auntie Beeb and raise you the Guardian. Neither outlet is anywhere near perfect, but unless somebody's sugar enby is gonna fund some serious journalism around here, I say we take what they give us for free...
Even better, if we got lucky enough that those articles came with hashtags, we could do a plugin that would CW #bbc and #guardian stuff with their hashtags so folks could read what they wanted and skip the rest... and know what they were in for...
@chjara ? How so?
It's not polling, it runs on existing systems, it's two way... They're really different things.
@chjara The fact that news just "happens" to you and isn't an interactive phenomenon with people involved is showing.
Some of us actually reply, interact! News is not just "post article, receive after polling interval"; posts get updated, too. There's so many things that can be better over activitypub than RSS.
I don't get weather alerts by RSS either, for good reason.
But RSS readers need an always-on device to be timely.
But seriously, the affordances are different, "Use this obscure technology instead" is not the win you imply it is.
@amyipdev I'm aware how RSS works, I've written feed readers.
But all of those things you just said have a list of asterisks attached a mile long, and still doesn't really address the root problem that started this conversation, in that those are _different relationships_ that _work differently_ and _have different trade-offs_,
@jenniferplusplus While I see your point, I do wonder if this this should be the only (or preferred) place to read the news for anyone. If I want BBC news, I can go to their website or add an RSS feed to my reader of choice. I'm fine with media channels not being on here, there's already plenty to talk about and if they do publish something interesting, people will link to it.
I wonder if trying to turn this place into the public square where you get all your info about the world could backfire - if that's the goal, people could start to insist to never defederate any media channel, no matter how far right, because fedibound people could miss out on what's going on.
@Ferrichrome Does make me wonder at these fediblocking spats, it's not like there's a grand fedi poobah somewhere that decides against or in favour - it's every instance deciding for itself at all times. And if *all* instances agree on something and you don't, you can still access everything you want by making your own instance. No one's ever blocked from the ActivityPub standard, so everyone's accessible at all times by anyone.
Moving to a new instance is a bit of a pain, though, so I understand the irritation of a dealbreaking decision being made by your mods.
1000% support this. Condemnation does not liberate--it oppresses.
Fitik 🇮🇱🏳️🌈
Jenniferplusplus
Ölbaum
alarmingly large glaceon girl 🍓
Penny
ani betts
Fahri Reza 🍉
hapbt
Darshan
St. Altair
Jay Grant 🏳️⚧️
CodexNotFound
Izzyzzie
nev
Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Ned Yeung
apophis
Kyle
Alan Trapulionis
Susan Larson ♀️🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🌈
Stone Bear
chjara 
Mx. Aria Stewart
Ursidinoj/The Bjornsdottirs
Amy (she/her/hers)
mushroom 🍄
Clemens Vasters 🇪🇺
caitp
Dan
anomalocaris
Ferrichrome
leif
jenny from the bloc
Galad
Rage Rumbles 🏴☠️🫂 🔞
The Impulsive Vulcan🖖