Mastodawn

Daryl G. Wright Jul 31, 2023

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸

I'm gonna put this out there: If you are new to #Mastodon and have found people to be hostile, or nitpicky, and just generally unhelpful please @ me and say hi. I am happy to walk you through this place, get you comfortable, be non-judgy about helping you, and help make this place your new home. I'm gonna call this #MastoHelper If others want to help newbies, lets do it together!
We need to do more to make people feel welcome first, that's how you create a culture people want to be part of
#help

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

This is inspired by @kissane investigation asking folks at Bluesky why they left Mastodon. It's pretty clear, at least in that initial November wave, that a lot of people were quickly made to feel quite unwelcome. The tech stuff is relatively easily fixed, but if Mastodon has a reputation as a place where you can expect to be told you're too dumb to figure out "the rules" then that's on us, it's a big problem, and we need to fix it.

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@chris @kissane As a November newcomer I can definitely say that I didn’t feel all that welcome. There is so much tech talk on here and then all the unwritten cultural rules… and a sense that we were seen by some as “invaders” bringing our unsavoury ideas about how microblogging should work. It can feel very parochial here

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @kissane i agree. I felt and saw it too but being the demographic I am, I am sure it was far easier for me to ignore it or push through. I see it a lot less now but I honestly don't know if that is because there is less of it or because I've learned the ropes or what... regardless I want to help turn that reputation around.

Chuck Taggart, Private Eye Jul 29, 2023

@chris @purplepadma @kissane I had two or three unpleasant interactions (like the guy I described above) but for the most part people have been very welcoming and kind -- I may have just been lucky? I aim to do the same.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 30, 2023

@SazeracLA @purplepadma @kissane me too!

💙 I Bleed Blue 💙Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma
I'm a November newcomer and never intimidated or an invader. Choosing an instance was a different, but I have been happy and not changed. I followed my #hashtags, everyone was helpful and welcoming. I love it here. No plans to leave. I've built a better community than I anticipated.
@chris @kissane

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@Ibleedblue @chris @kissane I’m happy you had that experience, but clearly a lot of people didn’t

💙 I Bleed Blue 💙Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma
It was a much slower pace at first, especially after the X- bird. But, I was also determined to give it 6 months at least. It took effort on my part. Many lack that effort it seems.
@chris @kissane

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@Ibleedblue @chris @kissane I too put a lot of effort in, and it’s really paid off. I remain disappointed that so many of my Twitter friends made Mastodon accounts in a panic back in November but then made no real attempt to get to know it or find people to follow. Almost all of them just drifted back to Twitter, which I was not prepared to do

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane I think a lot of folks just didn't like the lack of algorithm (which does a lot of the work for you). There seems to be a sort of sweet spot in Mastodon where, once you've followed some people and hashtags, your timeline begins to kick in and get interesting. I imagine it takes some people longer to get to that sweet spot than others for all sorts of reasons.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@isotope239 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane for sure. Commercial social media is basically just like turning on the TV and there being shows on. You just watch. Mastodon is more like having to pick the channels you want and then explicitly pick the shows you want to watch too. You get there eventually and hopefully the latter is a little more tailored to your interests.

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 29, 2023

@chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane That's the difference in a nutshell alright. Mastodon doesn't pick anything for you, you've got to look for it yourself. I can understand the argument that the algorithm might serve you up people or interests that you wouldn't otherwise know about, but that kind of discovery has happened to me a lot from using the Explore option. I also wonder if people have more trouble getting onboard when they primarily use a mobile app rather than the desktop.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@isotope239 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane interface, both on web and mobile, are challenging both because it is new and it can be inconsistent too.

Teancom459 Jul 29, 2023

@isotope239 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane

Honestly I just use the explore option as my main feed. I’m sure one day I’ll have followed enough people to use my actual feed, but today is not that day.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@teancom459 @isotope239 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane 💯

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

follow hashtags, that's way more important than following people.

People are primed to be and have followers and do selfies by the other sites.

Going for hastags is going for content instead of fame.

This place was created and populated by people because of "logic and reason" in the face of monopolies and manipulation.

The people who are flooding this place now are "just consumers" wanting their previous experience back.

@isotope239 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 29, 2023

@jesuisatire @teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane This is true, though I can't say that I blame them. A lot of folks carved out a useful niche for themselves on Twitter and many did a lot of good organizing on the bird site as it was before it got trashed. Mastodon just isn't going to work that way for them, so I wish them well and hope they can find another choice that comes closer to whatever it is they're looking for.

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

@isotope239
> Mastodon just isn't going to work that way for them, ..

I don't agree.
Of course they lost because of loosing access to a lot of work. But that possibility was the very reason why we started a decentralized setup in the first place. We realized the danger of the monopolies from the start or earlier, when we were betrayed.
Our setup is more important especially for them.
And if they don't realize the fundamentals now .. well ..
@teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 29, 2023

@jesuisatire @teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane I hear what you're saying, but I also think that those of us who do understand how things work could probably unbend a bit and be a little less judgmental. I've been working with computers and networks for a long time. To expect everyone to understand the fundamentals right away isn't going to encourage them to make the effort without some support and perhaps some kindness.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 30, 2023

@isotope239 @jesuisatire @teancom459 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane 💯 😊

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 30, 2023

@isotope239
> some support and perhaps some kindness.

I'm totally with you on this.
Point is that this is about language and culture.
I'm actually freaking out the whole time because people understand anything but what is said, are extremely presumptive, entitled and fully trained by BS marketing:
"This is a very good question.
Thank you!
Thank you for joining us!"

BS ..
f*** you!
Don't expect us to cheat on you or to trick you!
😮

@teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 30, 2023

> Point is that this is about language and culture.

Have a hear on this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVk26rurvLo

@teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane

Peter Kruse - The Network is Challenging Us_09_evaluation.mp4

Achieve evaluation on the net.

YouTube

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 30, 2023

@isotope239
> some support and perhaps some kindness.

One of the problems besides thin skinned vulnerable people, and they feel very vulnerable because they had to flee and are new here, is that those who are pissed of because of something always comment and yell around. I guess that in general we do counter them if we see them but the setup of seeing just one toot or one answer doesn't help.
It took me time to realize that claim by PoC.

@teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 30, 2023

@jesuisatire @teancom459 @chris @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane I kind of wonder if some folks haven't simply become acclimatized to shouting all the time on X. That probably works okay for them in that environment but it doesn't work well (if at all) on Mastodon.

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@isotope239 @chris @Ibleedblue @kissane I never use the desktop version

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @isotope239 @Ibleedblue @kissane me neither. Only use it for admin.

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @chris @Ibleedblue @kissane I'm chuckling, I always use the desktop because I feel like the mobile version hides options from me!

jz.tusk Jul 30, 2023

@purplepadma @isotope239 @chris @Ibleedblue @kissane

Don't Use The Default Android App!

I started with that, and it just felt "off". I switched to Tusky and am much happier.

isotope239 🥸💻🇺🇦😣Jul 30, 2023

@jztusk @purplepadma @chris @Ibleedblue @kissane I like Tusky myself! I'm still mainly a desktop Mastodon users but sneak over to Tusky for a peek at my timeline when I'm out and about.

JMinSD Jul 31, 2023

@jztusk Can you follow hashtags on the Tusky app? I usually have to search them manually.

jz.tusk Jul 31, 2023

Yes. And here's my understanding:

There's some config stored in the app, and some stored up on the server, with your account.

"Followed hashtags" is part of your account. So you gotta click on your avatar to open the side menu. Then, near the bottom is "Account preferences". Hit that, then "Followed hashtags".....

jz.tusk Jul 31, 2023

There's a big blue "#" button to follow a new one. While entering letters I see a drop-down of already existing ones, so I usually click on one of those, as I believe it's one that already has some action on it.

I think you can enter arbitrary text to create a new one, and I don't think you need to proceed it with a '#', but I'm not sure about those last two points.

Happy Hashing!

JMinSD Jul 31, 2023

@jztusk Oh thanks, I will try that!

jz.tusk Jul 31, 2023

Cool. And please update later with a thumbs up / thumbs down. If I got it wrong I don't want to keep spreading misinfo.

JMinSD Jul 31, 2023

@jztusk It worked! Thanks again!

jz.tusk Jul 31, 2023

Woo-hoo!

Chuck Taggart, Private Eye Jul 29, 2023

@chris @isotope239 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @kissane Very good comparison, y'all! I may have to purloin that for the confused bird app folks.

jules sappho🌈Jul 29, 2023

@isotope239 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane one of the reasons might be that we never in our lives stopped and asked: What do we want from a social media platform? Which topics are we interested in?
Don’t know if anyone remembers the first wave of “oh TikTok put me in that category, I didn’t know I was bi/trans/interested in plants etc before”
But after a while we got very used to an algorithm telling us what to like

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

The algos were created in part for exact that reason.
Create a first pleasant user experience.
People are literally programed to expect that and become that service.
There is a natural selection process hidden behind that difference. This is no longer about *saving people from #GAFAM", it's their choice to live in idiocracy country or make "the extra mile".

I don't want them to distort my bubble and they don't want to be disturbed by me.
@purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane

Julie Smith Jul 30, 2023

@isotope239 @purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane I think people need a soft place to land... once they're up to their desired level of interest in the technical side of how Mastodon functions then they're better equipped to go exploring. I pinned the Mastodon help on my profile & been pleased to watch people discovering how mentally stimulating Mastodon is... 💝

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

> I remain disappointed that so many of ..

We all made that experience sometime in the past while choosing the free network and there is a lot of reality about human behavior in that experience.

@Ibleedblue @chris @kissane

atomicangel Jul 29, 2023

@Ibleedblue @purplepadma @chris @kissane

I just want to say that to some extent that is the point of the blog post, that it shouldn't take substantial effort to make this work. I realize that using Twitter as a benchmark is like comparing grease to 1000 grit sandpaper (very low friction vs somewhat abrasive) but we need to find a way to make it less abrasive for those that are trying to find a new social home that isn't a site filled with primarily garbage.

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@atomicangel @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane It took me a lot of effort… it seemed much harder to get going than when I first joined Twitter oh so many years ago. I think at first on there I used a lot of keyword searches to find people reading the same books or watching the same TV shows I liked, and people who lived in my local area. Obviously you can’t do that here

atomicangel Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane

I think the closest thing to that is the #hashtag search, but that doesn't work on all mobile clients, so you would need to resort to using the website, which isn't always ideal.

Attaching an image from infosec.exchange, which I believe is running on glitch. Since that is the web version, I think the limitation is what your instance would know about, and as such, it wouldn't be able to reliably comb the entire #Fediverse to actually find something that would be "obscure" to your specific instance or network of followers.

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@atomicangel @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane See that’s exactly the kind of tech talk that goes right over my head

atomicangel Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane

Apologies, I forget to (no offense intended here) "explain like I'm five" #explainlikeimfive these things.

So with Mastodon being a Federated service across multiple sites, each site is only aware of some of the information that exists out there.

Easiest way to think of it is like a Google search, but Google only knowing about the websites it has directly interacted with. So if Google knows about Site A, but not Site B, it will only show you what it knows from Site A.

The reason Twitter doesn't have that issue is because it itself is the site, there is no "Site B" it has to go look at.

With Mastodon, there isn't enough power to check every site and then store that information for later retrieval, which takes away the easy search function of Twitter.

I'm not sure I'm best suited to explaining it any better, so if someone else can outdo me, have at it. 😅

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@atomicangel @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane No that makes sense, thank you

Norman Wilson Jul 29, 2023

@purplepadma @Ibleedblue @chris @kissane Exactly. My experience wasn't bad at all, but I seem to have used birdsite differently too. Others' experience different from mine is absolutely valid.

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

People are used to a comercial environment where "The customer is king and always right".

.. life is hard ..
😇

@Ibleedblue @chris @kissane

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@Ibleedblue @purplepadma @kissane 😃

Janice in GA Jul 29, 2023

@Ibleedblue @chris @purplepadma @kissane Strong agree

Namnezia Jul 29, 2023

@chris @purplepadma @kissane And the rules…so many fucking rules. I was blocked from an instance by posting pictures of tacos. It’s like they suck the joy out of everything.

Charlotte Walker Jul 29, 2023

@Namnezia @chris @kissane I got told off for not content warning a toot about insomnia and I just thought that was so uptight

Namnezia Jul 29, 2023

@chris @kissane @purplepadma it got pretty exhausting quite quickly, so I don’t post much here anymore.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jul 29, 2023

@Namnezia @kissane @purplepadma I think this might be a reason I will keep encouraging people to join a regional instance first. They seem to be more open about content as a rule and welcoming. I certainly found that with mstdn.ca

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

@chris @Namnezia @kissane @purplepadma
To begin with you are way to "thin skinned" if you take everything and everyone as speaking "the truth" about how the fediVerse is or should be. Just tell "them" what you think or consider or other wise shut the f****up, block or ignore.
There is no one mastodon, fediVerse or rule and it's utterly important to understand that in the first place.
That's the main reason and goal for a decentralized setup.
A chance so every one or group can create it's niche.

Namnezia Jul 29, 2023

@kissane @jesuisatire @purplepadma @chris Well no, they literally blocked my account so that I could no longer log in and forced me to switch instances because I would not add content warnings to food posts.

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 29, 2023

@Namnezia
To begin with, who is "they"?
Other wise how should we be able to warn, differentiate or recommend (if you hate food porn join XYZ!)?

> they literally blocked my account so that I could no longer log

that's very bad moderation attitude in my opinion so you should speak out the instance name in plain text. it's the only way the community can negotiate it's principals and sort out who chooses what instance.

This way you blame "mastodon" and that's BS.

@kissane @purplepadma @chris

Namnezia Jul 30, 2023

@chris @jesuisatire @purplepadma @kissane They being the overzealous moderator who claimed it was common practice in the fediverse to do so. They also were threatening to block (defederate?) some of the bigger instances for not following these rules.

jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Jul 30, 2023

@Namnezia
> They also were threatening to block (defederate?) some of the bigger instances for not following these rules.

I think it's fien and important that the possibility exist and that those kind of people that want to create "their own space" in the fedi exist.
I most likely wouldn't join one of their instances but as a whole it's the idea of our setup.
It isn't ok at all giving the chance and time to move your profile, same goes for server shut down.

@chris @purplepadma @kissane