Mastodawn

Sheril Kirshenbaum Jul 23, 2023

Popping on the visualization (also linked above) bc there were a few questions about the data.

This chart displays the US Fish & Wildlife estimates of annual bird mortality in the U.S. from several human causes. /2

Sheril Kirshenbaum Jul 23, 2023

It shouldn’t need to be said, but given some comments, let me be clear: This is not a post about harming cats.

The point is that special interests have been framing the narrative around renewables in ways that aren’t evidence based to influence public opinion away from supporting wind turbines & other technologies.

But we need to decrease our dependence on fossil fuels to address #ClimateChange. /3

Michael Gemar Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril (But one should also keep one’s cats indoors, both for bird health and their own.)

@Sheril what about nuclear and geothermal?

Tim Beauchamp Jul 24, 2023

@ludiusvox @Sheril
I haven't seen the data, but I would guess the number for annual bird mortality in the U.S. due to nuclear and geothermal is pretty small. :)

Edgarg2708 Jul 24, 2023

@Sheril
Saludos desde Venezuela, Norte de Sudamérica!
Quisiera disfrutar de los paisajes de tú hermoso País!
Será posible?

Nazani Jul 25, 2023

@Sheril
I adore cats & have 4, but I don't think we can avoid a discussion about all the meat they require. And I go through so many aluminum cans I feel like an Alcoa subsidiary. Spay/neuter!

Svend Waldorff Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril while agreeing with the basic premise (wind turbines kill a suprisinglow number of birds) I do wonder if we are ignoring the "quality" when we just look at the quantity. I would imagine that cats mainly catch small, very common birds (sparrows, etc) while the wind turbines may kill a larger proportion of the bigger and more endagered species (birds of prey and the like).
Would be nice if there are numbers to back me up or prove me wrong.

Nonya Bidniss 🥥🌴Jul 23, 2023

@swaldorff @Sheril An interesting question

Svend Waldorff Jul 23, 2023

@Nonya_Bidniss @Sheril
Some interesting solution proposals:
Make the rubines more visible to birds:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/01/stripy-wind-turbines-could-reduce-seabird-fatalities-say-avian-vision-experts
Or swiutch them off when a (big, valuable) bird approaches (either detecting the transponder endagered specias carry or using a radar+AI system)
https://www.audubon.org/magazine/spring-2018/how-new-technology-making-wind-farms-safer-birds

Could stripy wind turbines help to save birds from their blades?

We need to see like birds in order to protect them, say the ornithologists suggesting a ‘simple’ redesign.

euronews

Marc Jul 23, 2023

@swaldorff @Nonya_Bidniss @Sheril Or you could add #AI to wind turbines, and if that causes a problem, find a tech solution to control the AI which controls bird deaths. https://www.identiflight.com/how-it-works-2

How It Works — IdentiFlight - Bird Detection System

IdentiFlight’s bird detection technology combines high performance camera optics with the latest in machine vision and artificial intelligence software. Our system provides species classification allowing Wind farm operators to decide in real time whether or not to target curtailment, aiding in the

IdentiFlight - Bird Detection System

PJT North Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril

Have only inside cats….

Gatekeeper..Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril

@[email protected]

Darrin West Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril This would be more readable if shown in millions. 2,400 vs 0.23 instead of uncountable zeros.

AmonTheMetalHead Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril Now add pesticides & loss of habitat

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794845/

M Eilo Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril So frustrating that a meta analysis from a decade ago that was mostly guess work and approximation is still being sited as an accurate rate of cat caused bird deaths. They even state in the appendix that while most bird deaths are attributed to feral cats "no empirically driven estimate of un-owned cat abundance exists for the contiguous U.S."

Here is a break down of why the data is essentially intentional misinformation from the NIH

Outdoor domestic cats and wildlife: How to overrate and misinterpret field data

PubMed Central (PMC)

Pierric Jul 23, 2023

@BlinkPopShift @Sheril thanks for sharing, this is interesting and relevant.
I'd just add that the original argument that wind turbines are not the worst, most evil bird killer ever, probably still holds given the orders of magnitude.
Also the review states that pressure from cats is not a problem if populations remain sustainable, which is valid in theory; but we know that bird populations are in fact dropping fast in most places, so any pressure that can be avoided ideally should be.

@Sheril yes bit wind turbines is killing big birds such as eagles and condors, a cat cannot harm an eagle. Eagles are really common up north where solar power doesn't work and they want to use huge wind turbines that are ugly.

Dial Tone, Busy Signal *biiip*Jul 23, 2023

@ludiusvox @Sheril this person has an agenda

@simSalabim @Sheril

Oh I been protesting this in outer-banks right next to the wildlife sanctuary in North Carolina, the election swing a win or loss by 10,000 votes and they approve these horrible projects with slim margins.

Number6

Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril Humans have removed most predators from our landscapes allowing small birds to flourish in a way they would not naturally be able. Despite the cat predation, we don't see any small birds in danger of extinction.

Cats pose no danger for condors, and condors are unlikely to be flying into glass buildings. So we would want to know what kind of birds are flying into the wind turbines. If condors ... that's a problem. If seagulls ... not so much.

Oggie Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril
The thing is (and I'm not going to even attempt to engage with the numbers as a lot of replies are, since I don't have the backing), it's never been about the 'reality', just the perception.

Saying 'This kills birds', they're hoping for a visceral emotional reaction, like when it was discovered that 'cute baby seal in oil' got a stronger reaction than 'billions of animals dead'.

Of course, I -personally- hate birds viscerally, but I support keeping them alive. Away from me.

Writers of Wrongs Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril
Clearly true.
(And I believe they're soft on cats.)

GeriAQuin Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril wind turbines aren’t … agreed! But your assessment on # of cats killing birds is exteremly over blown.

Sheril Kirshenbaum Jul 23, 2023

@GeriAQuin it’s not my assessment, it’s US Fish & Wildlife data (see link)

Marc Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril @GeriAQuin Thank you for providing the link to this dubious USFWS report. They admit the flaws in their report:
"Many additional human-caused threats to birds, both direct (causing immediate injury/death) and indirect (causing delayed negative effects to health or productivity) are not on this list because the extent of their impact is either not currently well researched or easily quantified. For instance, habitat loss is thought to pose by far the greatest threat to birds, both directly and indirectly, however, its overall impact on bird populations is very difficult to directly assess."

GeriAQuin Jul 23, 2023

@prairiedog @Sheril Yes habitat loss is major. Feral cats hunt for survival and usually prefer rodents. Domestic cats (which I’ve had my whole life) don’t go for birds that often … mostly mice.

Kevin Leecaster Jul 23, 2023

@GeriAQuin @prairiedog @Sheril
If you don't believe that 2013 study results because they don't match your preconceived notions than here's what a more recent study found according to North Carolina State University zoologist Roland Kays:

"Domestic cats that live or go outside kill lots of wild animals. Recent studies find that outdoor cats in North America take out between 10 and 30 billion birds and mammals each year."

Cat science denialism seems similar to climate science denialism.

GeriAQuin Jul 23, 2023

@GreenFire @prairiedog @Sheril
Outdoor cats = Feral cats and sure they’ll hunt for birds … it’s survival … but still think it’s overblown nonsense from cats haters.

Kevin Leecaster Jul 24, 2023

@GeriAQuin @prairiedog @Sheril
I've been hearing for decades that the science is "overblown nonsense" from science deniers so you have a lot of company.

Lee Fife Jul 24, 2023

@GreenFire @GeriAQuin @prairiedog @Sheril I love cats and have lived with them my entire life.
If you're going to support a domesticated cat in your house, you should keep it in the house.
People always react negatively when i suggest that cats found outside should be removed, one way or another.
But, bottom line, we need to keep our cats inside.

Kevin Leecaster Jul 24, 2023

@colo_lee @GeriAQuin @prairiedog @Sheril
I entirely find that people's determination to defend domestic cats is almost exactly like the opposition to accept climate science that I've run into over the decades. C'est la vie or not.

Psittacus cafeina Jul 24, 2023

@GeriAQuin @prairiedog @Sheril

That you know of. If you leave them outside you don't actually see but what they bring back.

And even if they can't get adults easily, nestlings and fledglings are easy prey for cats. They'll take those long before they consider an adult mouse.

Ariaflame Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril Also cars. Cars also kill a lot. And mobile phone towers.

@Sheril @lisamelton even then this is only counting deaths by direct physical cause. The amount bird populations have dropped due to habitat loss and failed nests due to intensive farming and fishing destroying nest sites and decimating their prey, probably dwarfs even the toll from cats (who are mostly an urban phenomenon) and is the background that makes these other causes significant at all.

Ed Davies Jul 23, 2023

@StrangeNoises Particulate pollution from burning stuff can't help birds, either. I know nothing but imagine their lungs are pretty finely tuned by evolution in terms of optimising power/weight ratio, etc, so anything gumming them up is likely to have a disproportionate effect, more so than for ground animals where weight isn't quite so critical.

@Sheril @lisamelton

Barbara Monaco Jul 23, 2023

@StrangeNoises @Sheril @lisamelton Ornithologists agree. US has lost 3 billion birds in the last half century. Cornell University says that our bird population has fallen by 30% since 1970.
Cats and tall buildings and windmills have played a part, but ecological changes are the biggest culprit.

Norman Wilson Jul 23, 2023

@Barbramon1 @StrangeNoises @Sheril @lisamelton
Top of this thread says cats kill 2.4 billion birds a year.
Your post says we've lost 3 billion in 50 years.
This seems inconsistent. Which is true?

@oclsc @Barbramon1 @Sheril @lisamelton they can't both be right can they? I suspect the latter is a massive underestimate, but i also look askance at the former, frankly. Here in the UK naturalists are talking about many species having lost more like 90% (ninety percent) of their numbers over a few decades. And they squarely blame intensive farming, and the other thing we don't talk enough about, the absolute insect apocalypse that's going on.

edit: avast-ye

@oclsc @Barbramon1 @Sheril @lisamelton i mean, we tend to notice the loss of insect life only in positive terms; how our cars aren't plastered with their bodies along the front after a long journey, fewer flies invading the house this summer, that sort of thing. But it's a huge disaster, and the birds are - very nearly literally - the canaries in that coalmine.

edit: too many vasts in thread

@oclsc @Barbramon1 @Sheril @lisamelton also to be remembered: Shifting Baseline Syndrome: Every generation (in the last century or two) has witnessed a decline, but we think of how nature was when we were growing up to be normal, and the written accounts of its vast, abundance say a couple of hundred years ago barely seem credible.

edit: keeping this one but now duped the hugeness…

@oclsc @Barbramon1 @Sheril @lisamelton cats hunting birds in suburban gardens would be a rounding error if it wasn't for the wider environmental holocaust going on. they can be killing that many more birds than windfarms and still be a scapegoat to distract you from the real problem.

Norman Wilson Jul 23, 2023

@StrangeNoises @Barbramon1 @Sheril @lisamelton Looks like one is US-only and the other world-wide, which makes a lot more sense.

Barbara Monaco Jul 23, 2023

@oclsc There's some confusing information out there. Some online sources say that the 2.4 billion is a US figure, but I will go with Cornell Ornithology Lab's findings. Their scholarship is always impeccable.

Barbara Monaco Jul 23, 2023

@oclsc I am going by stats from Cornell University ornithologists. They have a a world class ornithology department. Their studies show a decline of 3 billion since 1970 in US.
According to several reliable sources the 2.4 billion annual deaths from cats is a world wide statistic.
Estimated US bird population is somewhere between 10-20 billion. Could up to 25% of US population die from cat attacks every year? Doubtful.
Bottom line is we are losing birds. Fix environment. Keep cats inside.

Norman Wilson Jul 23, 2023

@Barbramon1 World-wide vs US: makes more sense. Thanks!

Troll Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril It’s time we deal with the real problem.

Everyday Freethought Jul 24, 2023

@troll5 @Sheril

Equip all birds with laser pointers. Problem solved.

Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril apparently you can also lower the number a lot if you paint the blades. I think the idea was that painting one blade red and the rest white would make birds realize there were a solid object to avoid.

waysideollie Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril I guess there aren't any numbers for how many birds will die from the neonicotids being used on seeds for industrial crops. https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/4010909-under-the-epas-watch-unchecked-insecticides-are-causing-another-silent-spring/ #Birds #chemicals #climatechange #environment

Under the EPA’s watch, unchecked insecticides are causing another ‘Silent Spring’

Because these insecticides are so widely used and persistent, we now see them building up in wildlife and contaminating water on a vast scale.

The Hill

@Sheril I completely disagree with your post

Matt Johnson Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril it’s clear, we need to get rid of the cats 🥸

Trish (old account)Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril And that first number is just the cats from my neighborhood.

Leo Ré Jorge Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril great summary. I'm always mesmerized by the fact that even within the academic community in ecology and ornithology, people who don't study this issue directly keep repeating this fallacy planted by the fossil fuel interests

Xymon Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril ok, this is going to sound cruel at first, but hear me out, Cat Turbines!
I’m not clear on the details, but if there is any relationship between the amount of energy produced, and the number of birds killed, a little cat discomfort seems a small price to pay for massive increase in power output… 🤔
Do we attach them to the propeller or the hub? 😇

HonestHypocrite Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril I made this chart in 2019 and included error bars where available to help with some questions.

from 10/08/2019 and this tweet https://twitter.com/honesthypocrite/status/1181673095637155846

#Bird #deaths annually by hazard. #Cats kill 10,000 times more birds than #wind #turbines. Even oil pits (!) kill three times as many. Improved visualization inspired by @1a story today using @Tableau and data from https://www.fws.gov/library/collections/threats-birds

Richard Koehler on Twitter

“#Bird #deaths annually by hazard. #Cats kill 10,000 times more birds than #wind #turbines. Even oil pits (!) kill three times as many. Improved visualization inspired by @1a story today using @Tableau and data from https://t.co/cZj4IkjGYu”

Twitter

(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧Jul 23, 2023

@Sheril Wind is way better than coal or oil, but still has issues like how much land it uses and how it disrupts local wildlife. Nuclear supplemented with solar is the ONLY future.