Google is trying to put the web in a cage in the same way they put your devices in a cage (Android, ChromeOS).
There’s one really easy, simple and efficient way to fight them: uninstall Chrome/Chromium, use #firefox
Do it. Now.
– But I prefer Chrome because of…
If you are not ready to sacrifice a little comfort (so little, Firefox is great) to save the web, then you don’t deserve a free web anyway. You are part of those killing it.
Remove Chrome. Install Firefox.
(with adblockers)
@xtof @ploum Open tabs with different contexts. Very very very very useful. Also "facebook jail" extension opens all Meta/Facebook sites in a specific "jailed" context from the rest of the web.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/
Download Firefox Multi-Account Containers for Firefox. Firefox Multi-Account Containers lets you keep parts of your online life separated into color-coded tabs. Cookies are separated by container, allowing you to use the web with multiple accounts and integrate Mozilla VPN for an extra layer of privacy.
@ploum @fenarinarsa @xtof does that mean it’s harder for Facebook to track your non-Facebook behaviour?
ie when I do a search for “piano keyboards” on my local Music Store website I don’t go to Facebook and end up bombarded with ads for plastic music instruments?
@ronane Unless the website contains facebook trackers¹ telling meta that you requested pages x & y at some date-time, from this broswer on that OS, from IP whatever, and so on…
But yes, containers are still useful.
1. Which is illegal in Europe anyway… on so many levels, from exporting Personally Identifiable Information to the USA (Shrems II) to collecting and using said PII data without consent, and no, pre-checked "I accept" checkboxes is not consent…
@ronane Well, trackers are *usually* front-end, so it can be blocked. But yes, back-end trackers exist as well and can't been seen (for GDPR complains) or blocked by users so that's a risk.
I'd be suprised if meta doesn't already provide backend trackers to shitty websites that don't care about users rights…
But again, containers (in general, not juste meta…) mixed with µBlock are still useful and even required
@ronane @devnull @theLUCASTDS @ploum @fenarinarsa @xtof
#Firefox has FPI (first-party isolation) so the tracking elements in the cache and third-party cookies are automatically siloed according to the site you're actually visiting. You don't need to use containers for that.
A container is an explicit silo for a task/idea/etc, allowing you to log into the same site with different IDs. It can also integrate with the Firefox VPN to use a different connection/IP address for each container.
@tasket Not sure what is exactly your point… FPI IS container…
And yes, the thread was about the built-in container known as FPI… and it's usefulness and limits.
Not about the old deprecated addon… which was, if a recall correctly, a verified addon, before Firefox's FPI existed as "built-in"
> FPI IS container…
FPI is container-like. My point is it just works without conscious effort needed to create and move between containers.
I would only bother using containers if I had to log in to the same site using different IDs.
Current versions of Firefox will isolate Facebook and everything else automatically. This is the FPI feature where every first-party site you visit (the one in the Location bar) has its own separate cookie+cache storage. This makes 3rd-party tracking far more difficult.
Containers allow you to explicitly isolate according to your own designations, so that you can look like two different users to the same 1st-party site (ex. if you have 'work' & 'personal' fedi accounts).
@jwinstonsf @ploum @ubergeek Does Firefox have PWA support? SSB support? Did it not have issues with the Debian community that caused it to be forked? Did they almost let Thunderbird rot? And did the executives not act like a$$holes when confronted about their unpopular changes?
No.
No. (they killed it).
Yes.
Yes.
And f**k yes.
@ubergeek @cameronbosch @jwinstonsf @ploum you may not worry about PWAs but others do.
Mozilla is asleep at the wheel.
I badly WANT to love Firefox but dozens of silly little niggles add up to make it that little bit less pleasant and little bit less useful.
Now for those of us closer to the subject we can work with that. But to “win” we need the masses who just want a browser to work & be “comfortable”. Mozilla needs to do better to actually achieve their stated aims.
Mozilla is a billion-dollar org (and growing). They blame Firefox's sliding market share on platform lock-in, and I think they're right. They are still making an excellent browser and are the only major browser committed to ditching adtech entirely. The B browser has already tried underhanded tactics to trick users into their bait-and-switch adtech scheme; avoid.
@cameronbosch @jwinstonsf @ploum @ubergeek is not brave based on chromium, which would mean it does not prevent google supremacy over the web?
If we talk about the masses, we do not know what pwa or ssb is, so...
@jwinstonsf @ploum @Jungekatz Our only option is to pressure politicians at this point to break up Alphabet/Google. There's nothing else we can do.
They almost broke up Microsoft in the 1990s; it's only because we let them get away with it that they didn't get broken up. We need to pressure every politician to break up big tech before this happens. Just "grinning and bearing it" by using a near dead browser that also isn't a good company is only going to drag it out.
@jwinstonsf @ploum @Jungekatz But the EU has been causing other problems like this: https://youtu.be/QK0rmOuzSVM?t=87
So it's too steps forward, two steps backward.
Head to https://squarespace.com/thelinuxexperiment to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code thelinuxexperimentGrab a brand new l...
@chuang @ploum It filters out ads and AMP sites, the two Google things I dislike. Also you can turn off google services for push messaging, Google sign-in and a lot of other stuff I frankly don't understand..
I keep all of the crypto junk turned off.
Am I missing anything else?
I like being able to use Chrome extensions and have them sync across devices. I find Firefox to be a bit clunky but I haven't used it in a while so maybe its better these days.
@jwinstonsf @chuang @ploum no you got it.
Brave has its issue without question but it does work well.
I’m hoping Vivaldi work on their optimisation to eclipse Brave as the decent degoogled Chromium option.
@ploum Or work to cripple the telemetry and undesirable features of Chrome.
Firefox is introducing functionality where the browser silently disables plugins/extensions on Mozilla-specified sites.This makes me feel that "just use FF" isn't exactly a panacea. It's a choice of overlords.
@damnitjanet So you're complaining because Firefox, is indeed, unfortunately, not safe by default, although it can be made safer… The "functionality" you're mentioning can and must be removed
But you're OK with making people work for free just to maintain google's monopoly, and get an imaginary "safety" by working "to cripple the telemetry and undesirable features of Chrome"… which cannot be achieved anyway, because by definition, users have no control over proprietary software…
@damnitjanet The very own purpose of propietary software is to prevent third parties from removing unwanted "features", including marketing spyware, or adding needed features such as anti-tracking
google is pushing DRMs into web in order to prevent ad blockers from working… which is a huge problem… much worse that all the shitty things Mozilla foundation has ever done (which is a long list…)
@devnull Thank you for acknowledging my point.
I'm not looking to get into a "this is better than that" contest. As I said, it's a choice of overlords.
I'm well aware of Google, and indeed, work on a daily basis to make their BS work less. I'm also pretty familiar with software, too.
Have a great day.
@damnitjanet @devnull Yeah, this seems problematic at first blush, but browsers already have features like "block dangerous/malicious content". Its also worth mentioning that the add-on repository is largely un-curated.
I think that's why you don't see many people making a fuss over this; we've already accepted browser vendors as anti-malware, anti-scam gatekeepers.
OTOH, users who don't know enough to question/disable this feature are likely installing risky add-ons.
I'd also say that 'overlord' is a very harsh word for an org like Mozilla, and suggests a false equivalency/balance.
Despite being 2000x smaller than Google, even Mozilla's for-profit wing is structured so the logic of greed that leads to corps selling-out their users doesn't hold sway. The board doesn't have to sell out (or sell private data) under any circumstances because there are no share holders. Mozilla is something of a circled wagon, and I'm fine with that.
@damnitjanet together with using #Firefox, we need to work towards getting its development financed independent from Google.
For example by finding ways to pay Igalia and other independent free-software-friendly browser-develpment companies for FF development.
Igalia is an open source consultancy specialised in the development of innovative projects and solutions. Our engineers have expertise in a wide range of technological areas, including browsers and client-side web technologies, graphics pipeline, compilers and virtual machines. We have the most WPE, WebKit, Chromium/Blink and Firefox expertise found in the consulting business, including many reviewers and committers. Igalia designs, develops, customises and optimises GNU/Linux-based solutions for companies across the globe. Our work and contributions are present in many projects such as GStreamer, Mesa 3D, WebKit, Chromium, etc.
@damnitjanet @ploum As an aside: Firefox usercount has been stable for years: https://www.draketo.de/software/firefox-usercount
Chrome usercount is mostly rising due to being bundled with Android.
@ArneBab I highly doubt that will be the case. Google's WEI will rein in a number of people, but they will be seeing Google's image of the 'net, not the real 'net. That will become increasingly enshittified, and people will bail.
Google, MS, etc. will only co-operate for so long together before they try to one-up each other and the whole house of cards falls.
Also, for the record, I *am already* a FF user, so if you're gunning for a conversion, give yourself the point, I guess.
@damnitjanet Currently it’s already hard to take part in social life without proprietary apps.
Sadly people bail not to non-treacherous FOSS, but to new shiny apps that will become enshittyfied in time, too.
@ArneBab Agreed. However, the assumption that everyone is one of those people and needs to be cajoled and coerced into doing the "right" thing seriously needs to stop.
I use FF and Chrome. Why Chrome? Because it's necessary for stuff I do at work.
PS: I've been around free software for some time. I don't want to hear about how I need to reject, resist, and make my work more difficult to be a gold-star FOSS advocate. I'm the expert on my particular situation. Agreed?
Simon de Cyrène
ploum
fenarinarsa 
XtoF
lucas 🎺
Not a 🐶 with a 🎭
🐧DaveNull🐧 ☣️pResident Evil☣
Virtue signal 💉💉💉🇺🇸 🇺🇦
cracrayol
Thibaultmol 🌈
Jon Winston
Ubergeek
cameronbosch 
Wiredfire 
Julien Colomb
Tom Husband
vibhor 🍑 🏳️🌈
chuang
Jan 🏳️⚧️🇨🇦
matthias koplenig
ArneBab