briandohertyJul 20, 2023
Tiffany Li

American recommendation letters: “This candidate is the most brilliant person alive. I will never in my entire life have a student as smart as this one again.”

European recommendation letters: “This person completed the requirements for my class. They are currently alive.”

Jul 20, 2023 at 4:41pmIceCubesApp
Show threadAllan ChowJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli lol sometimes people have asked me for recommendations and I'm like uh wait. Why?
Show threadTiffany LiJul 20, 2023
@grumpasaurus why not!
Show threadAllan ChowJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli for some people it's been like alright I mean you weren't bad so I can say that you were reliable...
Show threadSheryl BegbyJul 20, 2023
@grumpasaurus @tiffanycli There's a whole code within PR departments to say the person was crap without saying they were crap.
Example: "She always gave her best when striving to reach the goals we set her" (but still never quite achieved those goals).
Show threadʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟJul 21, 2023
@stealthysail @grumpasaurus @tiffanycli Sounds like the unwritten rules for writing an obituary :)
Show threadSheryl BegbyJul 26, 2023
@BenCotterill @grumpasaurus @tiffanycli Quite! "Surrounded by family" is about as vague as it gets. or even "after a short illness"
Show threadaskiiartJul 25, 2023

@stealthysail
Flouting Grice's maxims, a classic.

Also, the original: "The student's command of English is excellent, and his attendance at tutorials has been regular."
@grumpasaurus @tiffanycli

Show threadSheryl BegbyJul 27, 2023
@askiiart @grumpasaurus @tiffanycli Exactly.
"Her consistent punctuality set an excellent example for other students." [nothing else stood out]
"He always completed his work on time [but it was shoddily done]."
Show threadAxe AkaneJul 20, 2023

@grumpasaurus @tiffanycli Even McDonald's requires at least two letters of recommendation from a non-relative in order to secure a job interview.

I would be very angry if my professor didn't give me one after graduating. That is basically a death sentence in the US - hope you like your former students to be homeless and die on the streets.

Show threadPatricia CordeiroJul 21, 2023

@AxeAkane The US is a strange place, there is a lot of pressure for things that should be spontaneous.

“You have to write an effusive recommendation, or I can’t get even a low paying job”, “you have to tip generously or I won’t make rent”, “you must give a 5-star review or I’ll be fired”.

And then it probably ranges between emotional blackmail (how could you do that to me?) to a tool for revenge or extorting favors (I could do that to you).
Feels really weird to outsiders...

Show threadAxe AkaneJul 22, 2023
@Pkcordeiro yeah, it is really strange sometimes. Growing up here obviously you take it for granted, but it's refreshing to visit other places and get away from the bullshit for awhile.
Show threadMatěj KoubíkJul 22, 2023
@AxeAkane @grumpasaurus @tiffanycli Wait, what the? Is this actually a thing in the us?
Comming to my university professor, god forbid to my ex-employer, asking them to write down I'm a good person because otherwise someone else wouldn't believe me is the cringiest situation I can immagine.
For all the three parties involved.
Show threadHLGEMJul 20, 2023

@grumpasaurus @tiffanycli

It wasn't a university recommendation, but we had a guy who was due to retire from the military in six months. He was such a terrible employee that having him in the office was counterproductive, so our boss just sent him home on garden leave. That guy actually used that boss as a recommendation later! Jerry was not amused.

Show threadThe Witch of Crow BriarJul 21, 2023
@grumpasaurus @tiffanycli "What, exactly, am I about to become an accessory to?"
Show threadShailesh Kumar 🇫🇯🇺🇸Jul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli 🤭
Show threadMike KnellJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli The European one is a bit too effusive. Should be "I am unable to determine whether they are currently alive, but I believe that to be the case."
Show threadCeleste PewterJul 20, 2023
@m @tiffanycli Bingo.
Show threadDavid McMullinJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli
Never ask an English person to write a recommendation letter for an American opportunity or committee…
Show threadDavid McMullinJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli
Possible outcomes range from intentionally damning by faint praise, to accidentally damning by slightly-less-faint praise.
Show threadAlbert CardonaJul 20, 2023

@mcmullin @tiffanycli

Academic institutions are aware. We used to weigh letters rather differently depending upon origin.

Also, personally I take letters from US universities as elaborate cards with a phone number to call in order to get the proper story. It’s clear why letters are written like that: nobody likes lawsuits.

#academia

Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Jul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli relevant
Show threadReservoir BunnyJul 20, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli oh this is awesome! (I'm a British outlier)
Show threadTiffany LiJul 20, 2023
@hugo even so…
Show threadAnna NicJul 20, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli I love this, it's so true.
Show threadAnnamalJul 21, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli NZ is like Australia but the bottom 30% would be "pretty average" and the absolutely bottom 0.5% would "just not acceptable"
Show threadStephenJul 21, 2023
@annamal @hugo @tiffanycli I think the classic NZ phrasing for angry outburst about the worst possible shit is "it's just not good enough"
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Jul 21, 2023
@stephen oof; that's got some heavy "I'm not angry, just disappointed" vibes.
Show threadStephenJul 21, 2023
@hugo we use litotes both for good and evil over here.
Show threadAnnamalJul 21, 2023
@stephen @tiffanycli @hugo That too!
Show threadAnnamalJul 21, 2023
@stephen @tiffanycli @hugo which is to say "not acceptable" and "not good enough" are interchangeable (and usually said in private school tones )
Show threadVaughan McAlleyJul 21, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli As an Australian, it’s “Not bad” or I avoid saying anything.
Show threadFerdi MagellanJul 21, 2023

@hugo @tiffanycli

Not bad at all.

Show threadAndrew "Harris/? 2024" GlissonJul 21, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli Uncanny
Show threadJosh, or whateverJul 21, 2023
@hugo @druid @tiffanycli I’m america, the curve is shaped like a cowboy hat. Yeehaw.
Show threadSethJul 21, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli this is fine ig
Show thread🍸Pooka🥕Boo🍸Jul 21, 2023
@hugo @tiffanycli Holy Cpk Batman
Show threadkætJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli I had to convince my supervisor to reprint my recommendation letter not in comic sans. He had just patched comic sans support into troff and was super-excited to use it for something, but I pleaded something else.
Show threadCitoyen du monstreJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli It reminds me of a book I've already recommanded too much in my life (and that you may already know): "Cultures and organizations - Software of the mind"; in it, at some point, is discussed the fact that US candidates are very… enthusiastic in their resumes and interviews contrary to europeans (if things have not changed since). I suppose the same is true for recommandations.
Show threadbeckobertJul 20, 2023
@LastEquinoxx @tiffanycli
I think what changed since then is that Asians have found a whole new level below the Europeans when it comes to humbleness. Now, the European style feels like a nice, reasonable and objective in-between.
Show threadanonimnoJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli Know exactly what you saying … there is a saying in this part of Germany I live in. It says in German “Nicht geschimpft ist genug gelobt” (not written in the Swabian dialect as I do not know how), this translates to something like “Not scolded is praised enough”.
Show threadteepJul 20, 2023
@anonimno @tiffanycli the greatest Swabian complement I ever received was "basst scho" - "passt schon" - "it's adequate"
Show threadTiffany LiJul 20, 2023
@potato_hijinks @anonimno high praise!
Show threadTheCityDweller Jul 20, 2023
@potato_hijinks @anonimno @tiffanycli In Swabian Germany the best admiration grade for cooking is a "Schmeckt wie bei Muttra" (tastes like when my mom cooks it)...
Show threadTiffany LiJul 20, 2023
@toor @potato_hijinks @anonimno this is a great compliment in any culture imo
Show threadStuart Celarier ❌👑Jul 21, 2023
@tiffanycli @toor @potato_hijinks @anonimno It is obvious that you never met my mother.
Show threadTinaJul 21, 2023
@potato_hijinks @anonimno @tiffanycli Same in Franconia. People here are famously grumpy. I'm always surprised how jovial Germans can be when I visit Cologne.
Show threadanonimnoJul 21, 2023
@tiffanycli @spinni81 @potato_hijinks Do not think the rest of Germany is like Cologne 🙃. My first time in Cologne I thought I was in Rio on the carnival. Stuttgart and Swabia is a loooootttt different.
Show threadTinaJul 21, 2023
@anonimno @tiffanycli @potato_hijinks I know, I'm German. Parts of Southern Germany are closer to Northern Germany temperament. They share, let's say, a very low level "enthusiasm" or as I call it: "Norddeutsche Extase".
Show threadTiffany LiJul 21, 2023
@spinni81 @anonimno @potato_hijinks My partner’s family is from Baden-Württemberg, so this whole conversation is very amusing to me 😂
Show threadanonimnoJul 21, 2023
@tiffanycli @potato_hijinks @spinni81 Extase 😂😂😂
Show threadBjörn 🌸 StarkimarmJul 21, 2023

@potato_hijinks

In northern Germany the highest possible praise is "nicht ganz schlecht" (not too bad)

@anonimno @tiffanycli

Show threadFrank BartonJul 21, 2023
@potato_hijinks @anonimno @tiffanycli I see this, and raise you a viennise "oida"
Show threadTwobiscuits🚴‍♂️ Jul 22, 2023
@potato_hijinks @anonimno @tiffanycli it's an excellent phrase and can cover about 95% of the good-bad spectrum, including "i don't want to comment on that atm"
Show threadTiffany LiJul 20, 2023
@anonimno that is an incredibly German saying 😂
Show threadKatjaJul 20, 2023
@anonimno @tiffanycli 😂😂forgotten about this, 👍🏽, also including parents, it”s important to learn accepting criticism😊trying to overcome that learned behaviour😂😂 before speaking rephrase
Show threadanonimnoJul 21, 2023
@Kaetchi @tiffanycli Oh yes!! Very hard when being influenced by the culture, not to apply that yourself esp on kids. A lot of focus on weakness that needs to get corrected instead of strength already there.
Show threadphrewfufJul 21, 2023

@anonimno @tiffanycli

A swabian, when they ate the most amazing dish on the entire planet: It's edible.

Show threadLeendaalJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli I got one recommendation like that in my life in Germany by a British teacher. Pretty odd to be honest.
Show threadKarl MagnaccaJul 20, 2023
@tiffanycli Honestly we should switch to the European style here in the US.
Show threadTiffany LiJul 20, 2023
@kmagnacca or just do away with letters! If they’re all effusive with praise, they end up being less than useful