Mastodawn

CelloMom On Cars Feb 12, 2023

The main reason the hydrogen hype is in overdrive: Big Oil n Gas wants to make money converting fossil gas into hydrogen.

"Before looking at why legacy #automotive companies, resource tycoons and the politicians that represent them, have been such huge advocates for hydrogen-powered vehicles, it’s important to firstly outline why #hydrogen cars are so fundamentally flawed and will never come close to competing with #battery electric vehicles."

#EV #EnergyTransition
https://thedriven.io/2023/02/10/the-madness-of-big-autos-push-for-hydrogen-powered-cars/

The madness of Big Auto's push for hydrogen-powered cars

The battle between hydrogen and electric vehicles has been more about preserving entrenched energy monopolies and less about science. The war is now over but some continue to push the hydrogen pipe dream.

The Driven

CelloMom On Cars Feb 12, 2023

There is a place for #hydrogen. But blindly applying it everywhere turns it into a solution looking for a problem.

"According to the Renewable Energy Institute (REI), a Japanese environmental think tank, this push to use hydrogen in every conceivable energy sector is actually doing more harm than good. "

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a42665011/japan-hydrogen-energy-failure/

Japan Tried to Build a Hydrogen Society. It Backfired Spectacularly.

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Popular Mechanics

CelloMom On Cars Feb 12, 2023

Everybody knows - I hope everybody knows - that fully two thirds of the energy you pour into the gasoline / diesel tank of your ICE car gets lost as heat. It's like buying three pounds of vegetables and immediately throwing out two before you start to cook with the remaining pound.

Turns, out, #hydrogen cars have the same inefficiency: 34% - 37%.

Battery e-cars have a 87% efficiency. The same solar field can power nearly three times more EVs than hydrogen cars.

https://thedriven.io/2023/02/10/the-madness-of-big-autos-push-for-hydrogen-powered-cars/

The madness of Big Auto's push for hydrogen-powered cars

The battle between hydrogen and electric vehicles has been more about preserving entrenched energy monopolies and less about science. The war is now over but some continue to push the hydrogen pipe dream.

The Driven

CelloMom On Cars Feb 12, 2023

And then there's the refueling.

I had hydrogen in my lab: in a little tube charged to "only" 300 psi. The safety officer was all over me (okay, all over my safety procedure).

And society is going to trust me, a mom, usually sleep deprived, distracted by gazillion little things, to refuel a hydrogen car myself without supervision? Welp.

And those hoses and fittings will never leak, right?
Double welp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9xVNI6WE5E&t=42s

How do you fill up a hydrogen car? - DrivingElectric

YouTube

CelloMom On Cars Jul 19, 2023

"A two-year-old project to run 51 #hydrogen #buses in the French city of #Montpellier and its environs has been cancelled for being too #expensive after elected officials realised that #electric buses would be six times cheaper to run.

It is much more efficient and cheaper to pump the #renewable electricity directly into a vehicle #battery."

#EV
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/french-city-drops-order-for-51-hydrogen-buses-after-realising-electric-ones-six-times-cheaper-to-run/2-1-1143717

French city drops order for 51 hydrogen buses after realising electric ones six times cheaper to run

The $33m green H2 project, launched in Montpellier in 2019 in conjunction with EDF, had already been awarded regional, national and EU funding

rechargenews.com

CelloMom On Cars

It was always the #FossilFuel industry pushing for hydrogen even in places where it makes no sense. Now #DeSmog has the receipts.

"An intensive two-year #lobbying effort by a key #gas boiler industry organisation has been critical of #HeatPumps, and promoted #hydrogen for #HomeHeating to government and opposition parties, despite strong evidence of its unsuitability."

#UK #FossilGas
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/20/gas-boiler-lobby-uk-heat-pump-plans-leak

Gas boiler lobby trying to delay UK’s heat pump plans, leak shows

Trade association, which promotes hydrogen for home heating, called for clean heat market mechanism to be pushed back to 2026

The Guardian

CelloMom On Cars Jul 21, 2023

"With targets now set for the phase-out of #gas boilers in countries across #Europe, in recent years, gas companies in the #UK and the #EU have lobbied hard for #hydrogen over #HeatPumps – the model which offers the least disruption to their business model."

#HydrogenHype
https://www.desmog.com/2023/07/20/revealed-media-blitz-against-heat-pumps-funded-by-gas-lobby-group/

Revealed: Media Blitz Against Heat Pumps Funded by Gas Lobby Group

An energy trade association that represents and promotes gas boilers and manufacturers is behind a barrage of negative press attacking heat pumps, DeSmog has learned. Over the past two years, the Energy and Utilities Association (EUA) has paid a public affairs firm to generate hundreds of articles and interviews to lobby the UK government on […]

DeSmog

CelloMom On Cars May 20, 2024

How the #hydrogen hype fizzled out

"A seductive hydrogen narrative has been replaced with one in which the fuel’s complexities and limitations are more apparent. But even its much reduced role could still prove challenging to deliver."

https://www.ft.com/content/14a60649-172a-45c1-99a9-039f481430e7

– Despite all the subsidies, the production is way less than needed for the 2030 goal;
– It's expensive, $200 /MWh
– Other tech has developed faster, e.g. batteries

Lex in depth: how the hydrogen hype fizzled out

Once viewed as a superfuel that could decarbonise large chunks of the economy, the likely uses are shrinking dramatically

CelloMom On Cars Aug 13, 2024

"#Hydrogen’s potential as a carbon-free fuel has provoked no end of excitement. From the deserts of Australia and Namibia to the wind-blasted straits of Patagonia, companies and governments worldwide plan to build almost 1,600 plants to make it.

There’s only one problem: The vast majority of those projects don’t have a single customer stepping up to buy the fuel."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-12/why-almost-nobody-is-buying-hydrogen-dashing-green-power-hopes

Why Almost Nobody Is Buying Hydrogen, Dashing Green Power Hopes

The vast majority of projects don’t have a single customer stepping up to buy the fuel.

Bloomberg

CelloMom On Cars Aug 15, 2024

Liebreich's #hydrogen "ladder" is a broad overview of where it makes sense to use hydrogen, and where it doesn't.

The fossil fuel lobby is hyping up hydrogen for all these uses, and have convinced some politicians that home heating should also happen with hydrogen, which is bullshit: heat pumps are much more efficient, cheaper, and safer.

Why do they do this? Because most hydrogen is made from fracked methane right now.

Gurre Vildskägg Aug 15, 2024

@CelloMomOnCars
And because it removes focus and funding from electrification that is a mature tech that "just" needs political backing to be rolled out.

Electric double tracked, grade separated, trans(sub)continental freight corridors. Real in India. This is what US railroads ought to be doing, not doing ment-to-fail hydrogen experiments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmNbqGp6KXU

WORLD FIRST ELECTRIC DOUBLE STACK CONTAINER TRAIN (INAUGURAL TRAIN RUN)WDFC

YouTube

CelloMom On Cars Aug 15, 2024

Agree: a lot of money is going into hydrogen subsidies that could be used for building the real climate savers. Hydrogen and "carbon capture and storage" are both championed by the fossil fuel industry, which really should make people think.

Karl Heinz Häsliprinz May 20, 2024

@CelloMomOnCars Hydrogen is good for metallurgy and chemistry, nothin else.

Mackaj Jul 20, 2023

@CelloMomOnCars

Whatever way you cut it, home heating with #hydrogen is less efficient & more expensive than alternatives such as heat pumps, district heating and solar thermal.

Additionally it would cause problems for an already leaky UK national gas network where existing natural gas valves are unsuitable requiring replacements that have yet to be designed. The same is true for the pumping stations as the existing natural gas compressors won't work with hydrogen. It's not a straight swap.

CelloMom On Cars Jul 20, 2023

Absolutely.
Hydrogen is highly reactive and causes corrosion and cracking.
"Hydrogen embrittlement" is a thing. (A scary thing, if you ask me, in the context of consumer use).

And yes, the UK infrastructure for anything that flows is distinctly underwhelming.

nyzn Jul 20, 2023

@CelloMomOnCars Although I usually find myself defending hydrogen, I think your comments and the article you have linked are reasonable. I think it's important to continue developing green hydrogen, and especially hydrogen storage and transport, because it seems like the best solution for heavy industry and heavy/long haul transport. But pushing it now as competition for batteries for cars (and smaller things) seems silly.

nyzn Jul 20, 2023

@CelloMomOnCars It is possible that as hydrogen tech and infrastructure develops, for the purpose of the heavy stuff, that there will come a time that the availability of that tech and infrastructure makes it competitive for cars. But that seems like an open question that will take care of itself when/if that time comes.

nyzn Jul 20, 2023

@CelloMomOnCars And finally, 100% agree with you about the motives of the existing fossil fuel corps to try to preserve centralised control and leverage their fossil fuel infrastructure and stretch out the value of their fossil fuel investments. But I think there's a lot of unhelpful absolutist and misleading anti-hydrogen lobbying from the EV side too.