I've seen the #Microsoft #OneNote hype and warned the users of long-term lock-in effects. Then OneNote failed and people lost (parts of) their data.
I've seen the #Evernote hype and it happened again.
Now, I see the #Obsidian hype. (At least the file format is an open one.)
🤷
https://karl-voit.at/2021/01/18/tool-choices/
If you want to spare yourself some effort, think of starting with a solution with no lock-in: https://karl-voit.at/orgmode/
@publicvoit The hype around #obsidian is justified, and yes, it just uses a folder full of text files, so there's no lock in there.
It also works on mobile and desktop platforms, with multiple options to sync your data and config across them.
I love linux native tools as much as the next person, but for the range of use cases and devices, #emacs will never serve them across the board as well as Obsidian will.
@rjbandicoot @a_siebel
You can get your MD files, yes. But you don't get the functionality of overviews, add-ons, probably lose version history, ...
This service is not just a MD editor.
Therefore, you'll ignoring your lock in situation.
I've time and I'll read about people losing years of effort in a few years. Trust me. BTDT. 😉
The alternative I was proposing has all the features of Obsidian and MUCH more. So, you'd actually gain tons of stuff as long as you're not afraid of learning. 🤷
@rjbandicoot @a_siebel Notice, I've never said that Obsidian doesn't provide a good service. OneNote and Evernote did as well. For short-term use, this is perfectly well.
I just have different priorites (long-term aspects) and try to avoid migration cost for other people who don't have the experience I had to learn (through failing myself).
HTH YMMV You've been warned - after all, it's your time and data 😜
Besides: MD is such an awful syntax: https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/
@publicvoit @rjbandicoot @a_siebel Sure, but #obsidian is much more approachable for average users than #emacs #orgmode. Which isn't to say one is "better" than the other globally. But, better for some use-cases.
And, you're not wrong. If Obsidian were to go away, I *would* loose a lot of cool tooling. But my *data* is safe on my devices.
@publicvoit +1 in general. I believe your recommendation is phrased wrong, though.
Emacs and org-mode lock you in just like Markdown + Obsidian do.
It's waaaaaay less likely you'll be screwed, though, because Emacs is free software.
But that's not the same argument.
While Emacs is maintained, you can get the editor to run on your operating system. If by chance it dies off, you can tweak the source yourself, but for regular Jane and Joe that's the same as company goes bancrupt.
@ctietze 100% agree!
I did not prase it as good as you but meant the same thing.
Obsidian: for people who are not able to learn Emacs Org-mode for reasons. 👍 (we may differ on the set of valid reasons or their priority)
If you are in a position of being able to learn such a system (which is easer than most people suggest), Emacs has its advantages over Obsidian.
And: There can't be any bancruptcy of Emacs. Therefore, there is zero lock-in effect except in your brain, of course. 😉
@publicvoit Essentially what @jbaty said https://social.lol/@jbaty/110701060952899815
It's still lock-in in the end. And it's factually wrong to say it isn't. Just as there *can* be Emacs bancruptcy. -- Of course you don't mean it in a strict, literal sense, but a colloquial one.
I have no issues parsing this :)
But the aftertaste is one of misleading rhetoric tricks that you do not need.
There's no Emacs+org supremacy over Obsidian+Markdown on this (!) level of analysis.
But there's #Lindy: Do pick old tools 👍
@[email protected] @[email protected] Yeah, putting time, energy, and content in Org-mode via Emacs is totally a form of lock in. It's maybe more benevolent than other kinds of lock-in, but you're still "stuck" with Emacs and some specifically-formatted "plain?" text .org files. I happen to love and prefer Emacs and those weird .org files, though! 😆 But really, if any of them went away, I'd just take a few days and move to something else. It would hurt, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
@publicvoit Sorry this all sounds way too negative!
It's this: your warning against hype is accurate, and Emacs + org is also a great recommendation if longevity is important.
By claiming there's no lock-in, your position gets weaker (easier to topple) because your argument is stronger (more specific). So you make your point more vulnerable without need, because what's left is still ace 👍
@ctietze @publicvoit Yeah, putting time, energy, and content in Org-mode via Emacs is totally a form of lock in. It's maybe more benevolent than other kinds of lock-in, but you're still "stuck" with Emacs and some specifically-formatted "plain?" text .org files.
I happen to love and prefer Emacs and those weird .org files, though! 😆
But really, if any of them went away, I'd just take a few days and move to something else. It would hurt, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
@publicvoit but obsidian isn’t lock in, it’s all just md, I’m using it and two other apps simultaneously on the same file set and it’s not a problem.
(Sure, there are js features that might not work everywhere, and I’m very conservative with them for that reason.)
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