John GruberWelcome to the EU web:
Simon B. Støvring@gruber These cookie prompts ruined the web.
Bleak Future
Robert@simonbs @gruber and they didn’t have to. Cookie banners are intentionally designed to get people to click “accept”. The _ethically_ correct thing is to not collect identifying data at all until it is required for your user, then ask. Instead we get this. I spend part of my professional life helping companies suck less in this area. It’s an uphill struggle. Most don’t _want_ to understand. Easier to throw a cookie banner at it and pretend you’ve acted ethically. #privacy #consent
Mega “Byte” Matt 
ʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟ@megamatt or just don’t track them at all.
@BenCotterill that’s what I mean. Anonymous statistics are easy to do, you still get useful data, and there’s no tracking.
Yury Molodtsov
Xavier@xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber I don’t need a parallel for this. Targeted advertising has enabled countless free services available to anyone worldwide with the Internet. Old entitled white men in the US like to say they’d rather pay for everything. But I didn’t have a credit card when I was a teen. The only reason I was able to learn a lot of things and connect with friends is through ad-funded free services.
@yury_mol @bratling @simonbs @gruber let’s say you’re right for a minute. What are you trying to say? That targeted ads aren’t harmful? That’s wrong. Or that collecting privacy sensitive information without user consent isn’t harmful? That’s also wrong. Either you’re unaware of these well known facts, or you’re wilfully ignoring them and arguing in bad faith.
On top of that I’m afraid you’re mistaken. There are current ad based business models that don’t require identifying and tracking users.
@yury_mol @xavez @simonbs @gruber tracking is not ok. The fact that you CAN do something doesn’t not make it ethically correct.
I can send you an email with a tracking pixel and know when you open it, where you are, what device you use. That does not make it ok for me to do so.
If you are under the impression that it is acceptable, I can’t change your mind, but I hope you will at least think about why you feel you are entitled to do this.
I can send you an email with a tracking pixel and know when you open it, where you are, what device you use. That does not make it ok for me to do so.
If you are under the impression that it is acceptable, I can’t change your mind, but I hope you will at least think about why you feel you are entitled to do this.
Grant@yury_mol @xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber
If you let people do what they want ... guess what? They do what they want. Narcissistic ShittyPeople have a heyday.
The effect on UK is profound. Was it just Cambridge Analytica? It only took 2% to change the outcome.
E.G.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook–Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal
@gsymon @xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber I don't understand what your point is. Also, the entire Cambridge Analytica debacle was a sham that didn't mean to anything.
1. People wanted Facebook to be more open, it closed down as a response to this.
2. Now only Facebook itself processes your data.
3. The data those "scientists" collected was useless for pretty much anything, as confirmed by the UK itself later. But it caused a large scandal and became a scapegoat for years.
@yury_mol @xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber
Facebook paid a $725m settlement, so I guess they thought there was something there.
Your third point is simply naive. Why on earth do you think those people spent so much time/money/effort to access and use that data? You think they were just a bit dumb or something? Maybe you should look a little deeper, with an open mind.
@yury_mol @simonbs @gruber this is a false dichotomy. Data privacy and effective digital marketing are not mutually exclusive, but it is in the interest of Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc that you and me believe they are. Please understand that my work relies on data about user behavior; I just insist we do this openly and ethically. (Also, I’ve seen precious little evidence that behaviorally targeted ads work better than contextual ads.)
@bratling @simonbs @gruber I see you’re one of the “Meta is just lying their ads work” crowd.
The reason they won over the old contextual ads is because they’re better. Because Meta or Google know that I looked at that camera strap and then they’d show it to me in a feed. What other context do they have in a feed? Posts around it?
Nick Tune@nick_tune @bratling @simonbs @gruber Targeted ads are fine.
Tröglödÿt@yury_mol @nick_tune @bratling @simonbs @gruber
no, ads are not fine, ads are torture and needs to be destroyed
if your product isn't viable without manipulation and exploitation it doesn't deserve to exist
@troglodyt @nick_tune @bratling @simonbs @gruber Can you say one coherent statement without false language used to prove your point on an emotional level?
You probably can't.
@yury_mol @nick_tune @bratling @simonbs @gruber
right, so you prefer death to life, emotionless is the obvious ideal existence to you
f off
@yury_mol @nick_tune @simonbs @gruber oh. Shit. You a tech VC bro. You have a financial stake in not understanding the harms you are advocating.
Nevermind. I definitely won’t convince you. You’d have to find a new line of work if I did.
@bratling @nick_tune @simonbs @gruber I see your capacity to read and process information is quite diminished to the point only an ad hominem attack works for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@yury_mol heh. it’s more a case of choosing one’s battles. I really believe that you and I will never find common ground on this topic. it’ll just annoy us both. BUT: Although I didn’t intend a personal attack on you; re-reading my own post, it did have that feel. That’s my error and I apologize to you for it.
(i chuckled at ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ because that’s my favorite ascii emoji too. i have an auto-replace for “shrug”.)
Zebra North
Peter Atwood@bratling @simonbs @gruber I gave up on a simple, fun, perhaps inane, web project for this reason. It doesn’t track or collect user data—doesn’t need to, and I don’t want it. But, that means I can’t monetize it with ads because of all the tracking that goes with them. Having a big GDPR click-through destroys the whimsy of it.
@patwood A fine example of a way in which tracking-based advertising can limit some forms of expression.
Mikkel Selsøe Sørensen
ccgx@simonbs mate, it made the web much more acceptable.
Chuck Skoda
Sloan Studio
Sören@SloanStudio @simonbs @gruber a German judge has ruled that if an Accept All button exists, a Reject All button needs to be equally prominent. So this particular banner design can get you in legal trouble.
Charles Roper@chucker @SloanStudio @simonbs @gruber
GOV.UK sites are better:
If you don't like these banners, there are analytics solutions that do not require cookie banners. But site owners are lazy and unimaginative, and they don't like their users very much, so they foist an enshittied experience on them to avoid designing a good experience.
Beanie MacIntosh@charlesroper @chucker @SloanStudio @simonbs @gruber I’m sick of the UK gov telling us Scot’s we have to leave EU We can’t do recycling, can’t grant trans people some measure of equality and can’t legislate drugs laws to improve the health of our citizens and society. WM hasn’t yet said we must stop continuing to give the £20 week universal credit uplift or free prescriptions but it just a matter of time
@BeanieMacIntosh Fair enough, but that's got nothing to do with cookie banners.
The UK government isn't telling Scots you have to leave the EU - you already have, along with the rest of the UK back in January 2020.
But most Brits now see Brexit as the unmitigated disaster half of us always said it would be, so hopefully we will continue to move back and ultimately rejoin in some form.
@charlesroper 62% of Scots voted to remain in the EU and in 2014 many Scots were persuaded to vote to remain in the UK because it was the only way we could be guarantee of remaining in the EU. We were dragged out by UKIP sentiments that never caught on in 🏴 but turned our southern neighbours into something rather unpleasant
@charlesroper We have a chance of rejoining EU as an independent country. Maybe England will get a written constitution and maybe even PR when we leave 👍
@BeanieMacIntosh Like I say, an unmitigated disaster.
@charlesroper or an opportunity for change if you have an electorate and a political party that are both committed to it
@simonbs So true. And you almost never see anything like them in an app (and when you do, it’s usually a sign that you should delete the app).
Kurt
AdamAdam
David Beck 