John GruberJul 7, 2023
Welcome to the EU web:
Show threadSimon B. StøvringJul 7, 2023
@gruber These cookie prompts ruined the web.
Show threadRobertJul 7, 2023
@simonbs @gruber and they didn’t have to. Cookie banners are intentionally designed to get people to click “accept”. The _ethically_ correct thing is to not collect identifying data at all until it is required for your user, then ask. Instead we get this. I spend part of my professional life helping companies suck less in this area. It’s an uphill struggle. Most don’t _want_ to understand. Easier to throw a cookie banner at it and pretend you’ve acted ethically. #privacy #consent
Show threadYury MolodtsovJul 7, 2023

@bratling @simonbs @gruber Because it's kind of important to track people's sign up flows and understand what they're doing? Or run targeted ads to actually fund the newspaper?

It's not like they're running a personal blog here.

Show threadXavierJul 7, 2023

@yury_mol @bratling @simonbs @gruber you don't automatically charge someone's credit card when they visit your website, so why would automatically tracking them be okay?

It's not because we got used to it that it was a good business model.

Show threadYury MolodtsovJul 8, 2023

@xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber Arguing via parallels is bad faith because people always construct a situation where their argument wins.

Tracking is OK. Show me any example of harm experienced by anyone involved. For the fact they’re getting content and services for free.

Show threadXavierJul 8, 2023
@yury_mol @bratling @simonbs @gruber I invite you to find a parallel where your argument wins.
Show threadYury MolodtsovJul 8, 2023
@xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber I don’t need a parallel for this. Targeted advertising has enabled countless free services available to anyone worldwide with the Internet. Old entitled white men in the US like to say they’d rather pay for everything. But I didn’t have a credit card when I was a teen. The only reason I was able to learn a lot of things and connect with friends is through ad-funded free services.
Show threadXavier

@yury_mol @bratling @simonbs @gruber that business model existed without targeting, it was partly subsidised, partly (contextual) ads, partly paid by subscribers.

None of these things require tracking every webpage you visit across the internet.

Jul 8, 2023 at 11:06amWeb
Show threadYury MolodtsovJul 8, 2023

@xavez @bratling @simonbs @gruber Targeting is quite old (comparatively). Remarketing was launched in AdWords in 2010. This already imlied tracking.

Your entire argument is based on hypotheticals, not our reality.

Show threadXavierJul 8, 2023

@yury_mol @bratling @simonbs @gruber let’s say you’re right for a minute. What are you trying to say? That targeted ads aren’t harmful? That’s wrong. Or that collecting privacy sensitive information without user consent isn’t harmful? That’s also wrong. Either you’re unaware of these well known facts, or you’re wilfully ignoring them and arguing in bad faith.

On top of that I’m afraid you’re mistaken. There are current ad based business models that don’t require identifying and tracking users.