Mastodawn

In the mid-2000s, the blogosphere was vibrant, open, and had massive potential but lacked discoverability, easy networking, and ease of use. Facebook came along, supplied those things, privatized a huge chunk of that potential, and in just a few years, more or less *became* the blogosphere.

Today, the fediverse is vibrant, open, and has massive potential but lacks discoverability, easy networking, and ease of use. With Threads, can FB pull the same trick? I wouldn't bet against them trying.

Jason Kottke Jul 6, 2023

Humans hate friction. If Threads can offer fediverse search, quote-posting (they already do), easy discoverability of friends (got this part mostly done), multiple timelines (a la Bluesky), ditch the weird Masto reply vibe, etc., people will use it over other apps/instances. And then make it easier to stay than to switch to something else. It'll be interesting to see if FB plays the long game and doesn’t overload Threads with ads too quickly (major friction for many).

Jason Kottke Jul 6, 2023

My biggest question is: why would FB bother with the fediverse at all? They've got a huge potential user pool already and if they offer a Twitter-like experience that has features that people want, isn't erratic, and is easy, many people will use it. Is adding access to the relatively small %age of folks who won't switch (and might defed. Threads anyway) worth the effort?

samf Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Virtue signaling, I’m guessing.

Pierre-Luc Gagné Jul 6, 2023

@samf @jkottke Ding ding ding!

Jesse Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Unclear that they will. Only reason I can see at this point is some regulatory cover. Saying they would got them some buzz though.

Rian van der Merwe Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I wonder if some of it is about trying to gain back some of the goodwill they've lost over the years? “See, we want to be part of the larger internet!”

Rian van der Merwe Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Ah, looks like Adam address this directly:

“If you’re wondering why this matters, here’s a reason: you may one day end up leaving Threads, or, hopefully not, end up de-platformed. If that ever happens, you should be able to take your audience with you to another server. Being open can enable that.”

https://www.threads.net/t/CuRtcYTNY3J

Adam Mosseri (@mosseri) on Threads

We're committed to building support for ActivityPub, the protocol behind Mastodon, into this app. We weren't able to finish it for launch given a number of complications that come along with a...

Threads

Josh Renaud Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke That is exactly what I've been wondering today.

Alex Pardoe Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Maybe federation does a better / easier job of fulfilling the data-portability rules various counties are looking at.

It also gives people fewer arguments against deplatforming if they can just tell people to take their followers and leave.

tgt Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke It may have something to do with the EU's Digital Markets Act. Either in order to comply with it or to demonstrate willingness and thus forestall more direct intervention in the future. And perhaps it'd reduce scrutiny of Facebook and Instagram.

@cundravy Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I’m still doing my research here but it seems like it can be a potential escape hatch against some of the “loom” ing DMA requirements.

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en

The Digital Markets Act: ensuring fair and open digital markets

Discover how the Digital Markets Act ensures large online platforms in the EU behave fairly, and allows new players to enter the market, thus developing a fast evolving digital sector.

European Commission

Nate Vack 🍴Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Have they actually claimed they'll do federated posting? I've only seen account migration stuff on their roadmap so far.

bergmayer Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I think brands might like the idea of portability, even of setting up their own ActivityPub-compatible instance

michel Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Some kind of "greenwashing" may be?

Pedro Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke my impression is that this is mainly a stunt or distraction. The more we talk about the fediverse, the less everyone questions Meta's progress with the multiverse.

StanD.Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I don't know if this helps Facebook but I'm intrigued by the possibility that I'll be able to follow friends that are FB/Instagram users without needing a FB/Instagram account myself. We need more of this.

Travis Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Content moderation is a huge factor, I would bet. They can more easily kick people off of Threads and tell them “go set up a Mastodon instance” which takes some of the pressure off of Meta.

Travis Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke “You should be able to take your audience with you" implies that they’ll even support redirecting your threads.net account to another instance, which I would not have expected.

Jake Rodkin Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I think it’s an idea born out of the last few months of uncertainty, more than some 4D chess political play: people have been jumping to Mastodon and Bluesky which both offer (or promise) federation and portability. Maybe it felt like a must-have when they outlined and proposed Threads. Now, after a big launch, maybe they’re second guessing? I hope they follow through with it though, just to see what it’s like for a huge social media service to actually try interoperability for once.

Sebastiaan Besselsen Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke it’s the promise of being able to bail out later and take your social graph with you. People have been burned and they like the idea – even if most will never touch the feature

Dave Loftis Jul 6, 2023

IMHO, this is just a new app displaying the same things that the old FB wall showed us: some of your friends, and a bunch of algorithmically engaging content. Prep for ads. Same playbook, new “app.”

v9y Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I have the same suspiscion - they might decide to not do it in the end. There are always possibilities of better, more polished fediverse clients (I use Elk, which is already pretty nice). If people switch to them to access Threads, it would pretty much defeat their purpose. But why promise interoperability in the first place?

Tim Carmody Jul 7, 2023

@jkottke my pet theory is that Instagram by its nature has a top for its network size and user engagement. Short-form text lets Instagram grow more, see a bigger social graph, and gives it and Facebook more data for advertising.

My first day in Threads, as a goof, I posted a video for Morris Day and The Time’s song “The Bird.” The next day, I got a sponsored post on Facebook for Morris Day. It's data harvesting, plain and simple.

@tim @jkottke I mean it is still Facebook even if the new name is Meta. (Leopard doesn’t change its spots and all.)

Brooklyn Buckets Jul 10, 2023

@jkottke That’s my concern. Will they just let that part of the “plan” slip into the ether? It feels likely….

meduz'Jul 12, 2023

@jkottke They'll get brands to use it, and will tell them “when you give us $ to advertise on Threads, or when users talk about you, you will potentially reach people using the Fediverse: they are legion, and growing, and we are the only way for you to reach them”.

Peter Johnson Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke valid points on its upsides. I wonder if it will also influence Mastodon to change or speed up implementing similar features or changes. Better searching and quote posting would be nice 🙂

Jo Moses Jul 6, 2023

@libraryvines @jkottke agreed. Lack of quote posting is the single greatest flaw of Mastodon, and it’s what makes me use it less and invest less of my time. If Mastodon is going to compete as a viable platform, even one that’s never the most popular, it needs to add quote posting.

James J Malcolm Jul 7, 2023

@jomoses @libraryvines @jkottke

Jo, try @IceCubesApp as your Mastodon app if you’re on iOS or Mac - it has a great implementation of quote posting.

Agreed that it needs to be built into the main Mastodon apps & web interface too.

Ivan Moscoso Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke bigger picture, how few ads there are rests on how much Zuck (like any CEO really) personally cares about Threads as a product. With the call of LLMs and his metaverse, I would say the chance it gets pummeled by ads is 50/50. Without strategic thinking, management will go with what they know, and they know ads.

Jay Reding 🇺🇦Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I would say that Facebook didn't kill the blogosphere, Twitter did. Microblogging is faster and easier than writing articles on a blog or even maintaining a link blog. Twitter had way less friction than blogging.

devolute Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke What is the weird reply vibe?

Sincerely yours,
Some weirdo in your replies

@jkottke This may be their goal but a lot of what they do nowadays reeks of desperation. To me, they really have a TikTok problem, not a Fediverse problem. Young people aren’t repulsed by Instagram yet but they aren’t making content for it, at least not exclusive content.

So, I think this is also an “Engage with your fans and reach whole new audiences.” play to attract creators. ActivityPub syndication is a selling point. “Anyone can subscribe if you post here.”

Theriac Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke
tbh it's a different thing. #facebook is a victorian factory town, where the community exists despite the slum living conditions, toxic environment, and the fact that they are only there to service the factory.

Taking the Coffee out of #Facebook

Why you should reconsider using #meta when you actually mean #facebook.

Plasma Trap~

Les capsules du prof Lutz Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke ⬆️ #FaceBlock #ThreadsApp #FediPact

Monsieur Valentine 🇺🇦Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke Blogger/Google was first, I think. Discoverability was fine with Google Reader until... 🪦

Ragnell the Mildly Unpleasant Jul 6, 2023

@valeg @jkottke And that was only killed because Google had no idea what a good thing it was.

Toni Aittoniemi Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke But do remember that 95% of people didn’t have any part in any online discussion before Facebook.

I’m not downplaying any damage they caused. But the question of scale and access is not adequately addressed in this statement.

Jason Kottke Jul 6, 2023

@gimulnautti That is a fair point. Perhaps that's balanced out by the huge network of potential users that FB has access to, as evidenced by Threads equaling the size of the fediverse userbase in just a few hours.

v9y Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke I think discoverability is not as big an issue right now as it was in the blogosphere. And Threads currently is really poor at it too. To your 'ease of use' point, I haven't seen anything in Threads so far that distinguishes it from Twitter or Mastodon or even BlueSky, except that it promises a fediverse interoperability. It's pretty minimal feature-wise. It doesn't have a web interface. It'd be interesting to see how they do the interoperability part.

Monika Viktorova Jul 6, 2023

@v9y @jkottke It’s not really about the features, although sign up is way easier than on mastodon- it’s literally one-click if you have an insta account. It’s about the users - always has been. If #threads pulls in government, journalists, media corps, celebrities - which it looks like it will- people will preferentially use it.

Tasha Jul 6, 2023

@mviktoro @v9y @jkottke

Exactly - if Threads pull in government and journalist and media corp it will capture a lion share of the peeps BUT #FuckTheZuck governments has NO business being on a corp proprietary platform without HUGE regulations upon that platform

Monika Viktorova Jul 6, 2023

@TashaKostolany @v9y @jkottke Agreed, but governments were already on Twitter 🤷‍♀️

Tasha Jul 6, 2023

@mviktoro @v9y @jkottke

Agree but they shouldn’t be *

filipa mv Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke yes and i’d say that twitter absorbed all that specific blogging energy. fb ate the personal home page vibe

MacCruiskeen Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke no web interface an automatic out for me.

daniel s.Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke the fedi's search hostility is the greatest factor in its failure to gain major traction, but there is also a large segment of the community who does not want it to gain traction because it's "theirs" and they don't want everyone and their brand accounts here. once threads is linked to the fediverse, the question is, will they be indexing toots and users from external instances. and if so, will that lead to mass-blocking of threads.

Richard Smith Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke The blogosphere still is open, and still lacks discoverability, easy networking and ease of use. But that sphere is also small, as it was then, and FB just tapped into the billions who never had any interest in it. That means the blogosphere is probably still vibrant too, but the opportunity scales have changed.

@jkottke #NSAbook is a plague and #Threads will basically #EmbraceExtentExtinguish the

if not stopped by basically DDoS'ing all instances with their flood of raw sewage...
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/110666789217122911

Kevin Karhan :verified: (@[email protected])

@[email protected] That is another aspect I thought was so selfevidential that it doesn't need explanation to any admin. #Treads will basically act as a #DDoS attack inadvertedly, and that'll kill the :fediverse: ... They don't need to #EmbraceExtendAndExtinguish :activitypub: itself, but merely sleehammer traffic against servers... You may know this as #SlashdotEffect, but ulike the ölatter one, this will be a flood...

Mastodon 🐘

Paranoid Factoid Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke They're here to destroy the fediverse. For exactly the same reason Microsoft acted to destroy Netscape in the 1990s. They're a monopoly and cannot allow any potential competitor to gain a foothold. Especially one they can't buy out.

myrmidon Jul 6, 2023

@jkottke “open" really? My timeline is full of hate against them.

Naman Jul 14, 2023

@jkottke @zachleat I disagree with the premise a bit.
- the blogosphere didn’t lack discoverability since Google and link blogs existed.
- the Fediverse, similarly doesn’t lack discoverability or easy networking. It’s still complicated though.

FB might do the same as it did to the blogosphere. The blogosphere still exists.