Mastodawn

Fancy Sandwiches Jun 18, 2023

tech.lgbt Moderators

We, the moderation and administration of tech.lgbt, are signing the Anti-Meta Fedi Pact in fellowship with our peer communities. (https://vantaa.black/pact)

There is over a decade of precedent that Facebook will not have users' best interests as their guiding principle but rather profit margins, if it joins the Fediverse.

We at tech.lgbt have long held the belief that corporation owned instances are a threat to the core of the Fediverse: freedom for users to be themselves and to be a part of their communities. The 2010s saw the loss of online freedom when the majority of the Web was consolidated into a few destinations, and Facebook entering here could lead us back to centralization. Furthermore, NDAs for server admins will constrain our sovereignty online by binding us legally from disrupting their business.

We are not products. We are people, and we do not welcome Facebook in this space.

#meta #FediPact #facebook #project92 #mastodon #fediverse #FediBlockMeta #FediAdmin #p92 #MastoAdmin

tech.lgbt Moderators Jun 18, 2023

More details and developments about this pact and the events surrounding it can be found here; https://beach.city/@vantablack/110563155848847142

fedipact commander :gw2pact: (@[email protected])

there are rumblings that certain big fedi admins had meetings with meta under NDA? whatttttt it looks like the post i keep seeing replies to has been deleted but the breadcrumb trail is there 👀 gargron and dansup what are you hiding 👁️

Beach City

Full Metal Archaeopteryx Jun 18, 2023

@mods
I certainly don't want that company nor their ilk scraping my data and/or pushing for echo-chamber algorithms to decide what I should see in my feed.

Big Gay Tinkerer

@mods Also Project 92 is a name of an NGO (https://project92.net), in case it wasn't bad enough.

Home - Project 92

Project 92 is an international non-governmental organization (INGO) which is committed to relief and development work in emerging countries. It is our goal to

Project 92

Yassie > moved to 0w0.is Jun 18, 2023

@mods based moderators

Kris Samsel Jun 18, 2023

@mods Or any other billionaire perverts!

Citizencat Jun 18, 2023

@mods
Hadn't heard that Meta wanted an instance. If this is true. No thanks.

Jamie Jun 18, 2023

@mods proud that you all have taken this great step, and happy to see that it is vantablack leading this.

DiaDemiEmi Jun 18, 2023

@mods Isn't it a good thing that companies are getting into federation? I get choosing to block corporate instances if you don't want to be associated with it. But I'd rather have platforms all use a protocol that allows for cross-communication than vendor lock in on chat apps.

There's definitely the danger of them introducing features that won't be open sourced, but I feel like there should be pushback against that, but not against the first step to a company announcing federation. Where is anything related to the mentioned NDAs said?

Of course, fuck Meta and all huge corporate entities. But to me an internet where at least the big sites can federate with each other sounds a whole lot better than the walled gardens we've got right now. I see it as a small step in the right direction, it'll have downsides for now, but I feel it's a necessary step to bringing back the decentralised internet.

flag_demisexual

@DiaDemiEmi @mods The second post we made should help offer perspective on our decision. Linking it again here

https://beach.city/@vantablack/110563155848847142

fedipact commander :gw2pact: (@[email protected])

there are rumblings that certain big fedi admins had meetings with meta under NDA? whatttttt it looks like the post i keep seeing replies to has been deleted but the breadcrumb trail is there 👀 gargron and dansup what are you hiding 👁️

Beach City

DiaDemiEmi Jun 18, 2023

@sudaksis @mods I see i see. An NDA is definitely shady but I do think this is a bit too fast. NDAs are very standard and if it's a product that's not supposed to even be known to the public yet I'm not surprised it's under an NDA.

If it's formally announced and it brings the fediverse in trouble, protest it and block it then. But I think for now it's just not enough to go off, an NDA itself doesn't mean much.

Evan Minto Jun 19, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @sudaksis @mods Thank you, people are seriously overreacting about an NDA. It's nothing sinister, it's what everybody signs when you do a meeting about an unannounced product. It just means Meta wanted to talk to these admins because they run popular instances and don't want them sharing details about P92 ahead of its official launch.

Isocat now → @[email protected]Dec 15, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @sudaksis @mods History repeatedly warns us: once it's formally announced, it's much too late.

__Miguel_Jun 18, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @mods There are already plenty of companies on Mastodon/the Fediverse.

I can recall Raspberry Pi, which even has their own Mastodon server, off the cuff, but I'm sure there are plenty of others.

The issue is... There are companies, and then there are companies that are SO huge and yield SO much power that them joining the federation would cause such an imbalance of power that they alone would be able to in essence take over the whole federation and effectively make it a single-entity federation (i.e., exactly what the Fediverse is trying to avoid).

Meta is one of those companies. As are Amazon, Google, Tencent, Microsoft, Twitter, etc..

Hence the need for this pact, IMO.

Though apparently with the biggest instance on the Fediverse potentially compromised, it might be a moot point already...

DiaDemiEmi Jun 18, 2023

@nanianmichaels @mods I don't think it's feasible in the near future to achieve a fully decentralised internet. But I think this is at least a good step. If that platform is federated that at least means you have the choice to still contact people on it without using the platform.

It's like if Protonmail blocked all Gmail addresses. Sure that's an act of protest against the very centralised email. But at the end of the day it doesn't change anything, most people are going to use what's popular, whether that's good or not. No one is going to not use Meta's new app because some Mastodon instances decided to block federation.
All it does is block the instance off from a large amount of people that will use the app. I feel like that's not a positive thing. There will definitely be issues with a large corporate owned instance like that, but it's a step towards more corporate platforms being federated. And when everyone is federated, the opportunity for equal ground for every instance will arise again

DiaDemiEmi Jun 18, 2023

@nanianmichaels @mods I just think instead of immediately promising to block it it's better to work around it. It's a fact it will federate, we should make the best of that to try to build the decentralised internet. In my opinion this just feels like putting your head in the sand and pretending outside influences don't exist. Blocking that potential instance won't solve the core problem of the internet being too centralised, it'll make it worse by alienating users.

You're free to disagree and maybe I'm too optimistic in this, but I think it's better to approach this with an open mind until definitive proof comes that this will cause damage to the fediverse, but I see this as a potentially good thing. If companies want to join the fediverse that means they see profit in it. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it could also mean that they notice how they can't forever keep up the walled gardens of their current platforms.

serklarvel Jun 18, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @nanianmichaels @mods I've been wondering why people on Meta's Threads will stay on that instance once they learn how #fediverse works. When you are on Instagram, you are shown ads every 3-4 posts and this should be the same on Threads. Why would anyone prefer to be on their instance if they can experience the fediverse free of ads?

CynthesisToday Jun 18, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @nanianmichaels @mods

From a @stux post, there appears to be some potential for funding from federation with extractive social networks. I could be misunderstanding. A non-extractive social network will need to respond to evolutionary forces to develop ecosystem services that allow it to thrive. If the extractive funding removes that evolutionary force and replaces it with a dependency for that funding, then the non-extractive social ecosystem won't develop beyond that dependency.

An example might be as I interpret from "Ministry for the Future". The non-extractive social network develops an ecosystem service that allows actors to opt-in for obtaining the value of their privacy and attention as a commodity that the actor gets the value for, instead of an extractive social network "owning" the actor's content and extracting the value.

The damage to the Fediverse would come from removal of evolutionary force for development of ecosystem services if funding comes from extractive networks.

__Miguel_Jun 18, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @mods While I appreciate your optimism, and honestly hope I am wrong, do keep in mind that on one side we already are completely cut off from everyone using Meta products, so nothing will change on that part. The only real problem is what to do with the big instance, which would probably still be able to remain in the federation, which effectively would mean nothing would change.

And on the other hand, Meta has already shown time and time again they will ONLY act in a way that provides them growth, at the expense of everyone caught in their gravity field. Expecting otherwise is very likely to be wishful thinking.

So yeah, sadly we're going to agree to disagree on this one.

Again, though, I honestly hope you're right. Life probably has already made me too much of a pessimist.

DiaDemiEmi Jun 18, 2023

@nanianmichaels @mods You're right and I think it's a matter of time before they do fuck it up. I just think doing so when it's still in the rumour phase is a bit early.
Like what message (if any) is being sent here? That we don't like corporations is clear, of course. But that's not gonna put any pressure on Meta. If instances start defederating when they make a mess of it then at least that shows there's something more specific that they could act on to resolve.

I'm probably being way too optimistic here yeah. But I do think that if companies see profit in this there's probably *something* there that might make my optimism a little warranted. But I could be dead wrong and this is a plot to disrupt the fediverse.

The fact that this isn't the first time it's said by a company leads me to believe it's more than just a plot and might be the result of market research or something telling them they need to respond to the many cases of social medias ruining their credibility.

But I'm probably wrong lol

Vincarsi Jun 19, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @nanianmichaels @mods I think you're giving meta too much credit with your optimism. Giving large corporate entities the benefit of the doubt here requires not knowing how they operate. It's not a "plot" so much as an established strategy that's been used by giant corporations to consolidate and gain monopoly for decades. They get their foot in the door then run at a loss to make themselves the most attractive option while undermining the competition. It's how things get centralized

Sibachian Jun 19, 2023

@DiaDemiEmi @mods it's facebook. they'll do what they did with XMPP. participate long enough to bring most users over to the comfort of their platform, then shut off federation, forcing the small percentage to move over to them or lose their contacts.

i literally am forced to stay on facebook because it is the only way to keep in touch with my family after they shut down XMPP. I don't want to see the same happening to the fediverse.

the big email providers do something similar currently. fuck.

coupland Jun 18, 2023

@mods Eww gross. We didn't join the fediverse to have instance admins try to be our mommies and daddies for us.

It takes like 4 clicks to block an instance. If it's not hate speech nor illegal content then let users decide for themselves what content or instances they want to block.

@mods Hey @mcp is this maybe something y'all should look at?

Master Control Program Jun 19, 2023

here you go :3

https://lgbtqia.space/@mcp/110571863539735532

Master Control Program (@[email protected])

Dear users of our instance, We have received questions regarding the possibility of Meta (Facebook/Instagram) joining the Fediverse. This has sparked a significant amount of discussion, and we would like to inform you of our stance as moderators of this instance at this time. Given the impact of this matter on our users, we believe it is essential to ensure that the decision-making process is as transparent, inclusive, and informed as possible. However, the current state of information about Meta's potential integration with Mastodon is somewhat fragmented and not entirely clear. Therefore, we have decided to postpone any definitive decisions until we have a more comprehensive understanding of the situation and its implications. Our key areas of concern, among others, are user privacy, GDPR compliance, potential monetization strategies, moderation policies, the user interface aspects, and the choice of algorithms by Meta. Crucially, we would like to ask ourselves, under what conditions would we find it tolerable to federate our instance with a Facebook instance? Further, how likely is it that Meta would even meet these conditions? We recognize that Meta's integration could attract a significant number of new people to the fediverse. We do not plan to block this potential without knwoing the full story and thoroughly exploring alternative solutions. As your administrators, it is our topmost priority to ensure the safety and positive experience of our users. While we are deliberating these matters internally, we would greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts, suggestions, and concerns on the matter. Once we believe we have gathered sufficient information and user feedback, we will move towards reaching a decision and sharing it with you all. Please note that while we are actively working on this matter, due to its complex nature it may take some time to reach a conclusion. Thank you for your patience and understanding. TLDR: We're postponing any decisions about the Meta Block. Your input is valued as we navigate this complex issue, prioritizing user safety and experience while seeking more comprehensive information before making any decisions.

LGBTQIA.Space

runarcn Jun 18, 2023

@mods @stux Is mstdn.social planning to sign this?

JustNate Jun 18, 2023

@runarcn @mods @stux
mstdn.social decided to "Give them a chance". Clearly not paying attention to what's been going on the last 5-15 years with meta. Or perhaps "paying" is involved in some other way.

https://mstdn.social/@stux/110567524159195690

stux⚡ (@[email protected])

I'm gonna try to clear up a few things Meta is not gonna buy Mastodon or any server, this is based on absolutely nothing and untrue. Yes, some of us indeed got contacted by Meta/Insta because they are working on a new social platform (this was in the news) and they are looking into joining the Fediverse (Mark Zuckerberg also told this in the recent podcast) SO. This contact was about a "heads-up" for a potential big platform to join the network and not for a "take over". [1/2]

Mastodon 🐘

@mods Honestly, yeah, block em.

Let's disrupt their strategy, which will likely be something along the lines of "widen your audience to other platforms" and such, as well as spamming advertisements into the fediverse.

We don't need them here.

Zeze Jun 18, 2023

Preemptively block any such instance.

Doc Edward Morbius ⭕Jun 18, 2023

@woozle Is there an official toot.cat response here?

My own vote is for defederating Meta, and any Meta-federating instances.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Jun 18, 2023

@mods Signed and committed my #selfhost

Veronica ⚧ 🏳️‍⚧️Jun 18, 2023

@mods I left FB in 2016 due to FB censoring my 3rd party Eco-Socialist posts labeling me a "Russian asset" because of my pro-Bernie, pro-Green, pro-Dr Jill Stein posts & my anti-Hillary & anti-Trump posts.
My final day on FB was one of my granddaughters birthdays when FB would not let me post a "Happy Birthday" message that I created on my granddaughters FB page.
My boycott of FB became eternal & irrevocable that day.
Anyone who tries to divide my family can forget my EVER having ANYTHING to do with them EVER again.
Mark Zuckerberg & his crap company in that instant became unwelcome in my life forever.

@mods I read that Facebook plans to experiment with federating. Have they actually started building something or is this petition preemptive?

Jai Half-Elven 🏹🍜🐉Jun 18, 2023

@mods Agree

➡️ "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." -- Maya Angelou

https://snowdin.town/objects/5447d3f9-de3b-45b7-a6ef-5001d3f766de

"..The FB algo. started amplifying anti-Muslim content...The military-backed civilian government even spread this content on FB.
It spread so fast.. catalysed a racial and ethnic genocide in Myanmar of this Muslim minority group. .. FB.. knowingly, ..accelerated one of the most devastating genocides in the world."

#meta #FediPact #facebook #mastodon #fediverse #Thread

Commodore Yasmiga CD32 :flag_agender:🏳️‍⚧️ (@[email protected])

I know people have elucidated greatly on why Zucc is bad, but I want to hone onto one specific event. In 2010, Facebook entered then then-newly-opened country of Myanmar under their “Free Basics” p...

Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty Jun 18, 2023

@mods We support your view!

Assegaia Jun 19, 2023

@mods What NDAs are you even talking about? Just because some have been signed for backroom chats it has no relevance.

Only if the commercial instances go the embrace and exterminate route defederation would be warranted. Everything else needlessly splits the community. The users should decide which instances to block based on ideological grounds.

The Steel Rat Jun 19, 2023

so much for decentralization

Apocat Jun 19, 2023

@alis thoughts?

Daphne Jun 19, 2023

@mods Thanks for this. I think Meta / Facebook has long since moved past any notion of presumed good faith.

Cloaker Jun 19, 2023

@mods this is the entire point of the fediverse. If a group associates with large scale corporations in that way they can go.

Doug 🌈🇨🇦

@mods
Facebook is evil.

kira :3 Jun 19, 2023

ablobfoxbongohyper

MOVED [email protected]Jun 19, 2023

@mods the URL has changed btw! https://fedipact.online/ 😁

🖤 ANTI-META FEDI PACT 🖤

Chuck Fry 🏳️‍🌈Jun 19, 2023

@moderators What is your position on this? Speaking for myself, I have zero interest in making any connection with any Meta-owned properties.

[edited to add link:]
https://tech.lgbt/@mods/110567092695993475

tech.lgbt Moderators (@[email protected])

We, the moderation and administration of tech.lgbt, are signing the Anti-Meta Fedi Pact in fellowship with our peer communities. (https://vantaa.black/pact) There is over a decade of precedent that Facebook will not have users' best interests as their guiding principle but rather profit margins, if it joins the Fediverse. We at tech.lgbt have long held the belief that corporation owned instances are a threat to the core of the Fediverse: freedom for users to be themselves and to be a part of their communities. The 2010s saw the loss of online freedom when the majority of the Web was consolidated into a few destinations, and Facebook entering here could lead us back to centralization. Furthermore, NDAs for server admins will constrain our sovereignty online by binding us legally from disrupting their business. We are not products. We are people, and we do not welcome Facebook in this space. #meta #FediPact #facebook #project92 #mastodon #fediverse #FediBlockMeta #FediAdmin #p92 #MastoAdmin

LGBTQIA+ and Tech

Chuck Fry 🏳️‍🌈Jun 19, 2023

@moderators The Meta approach to Fediverse reeks of the old Microsoft "embrace, extend, and extinguish" approach to anything threatening their market dominance. I won't be a party to it.

SFBA Moderators Jun 19, 2023

Hello @SVChucko!
We’ve been looking into this for a while, and we've sent out a post with what we're thinking now:

https://sfba.social/@moderators/110572811246053918

SFBA Moderators (@[email protected])

Hello #SFBA! We've heard and read a lot about the potential upcoming Meta project that intends to join the fediverse. We have also seen many instance admins committing to blocking these instances as soon as they appear. We are not going to commit to suspending them at this time, but we also won't commit to federating with them. As always, we **are** committed to giving potential problem instances extra attention; and this one will have our eyes fixed upon it. We do not know when they will release their service, but when they do our moderators will be keeping an eye out for content that violates our CoC or otherwise threatens our users. Just like any server, if they become a nuisance or violate our server rules they will be limited. If there is risk of harm to our users, we will suspend them. Please continue to report anything you see, and happy tooting! #Meta #Project92 #MetaThreads

SFBA.social

éclair (dragon arc)

trans_furr_white

@mods i knew i picked the right server :)

Rachael Ava 💁🏻‍♀️Jun 19, 2023

@mods @david Thank you so very much for commiting to helping protect the Fediverse from Meta's malicious influence, greed, and control.

blobfoxfloofcute

Carl-Eric Jun 19, 2023

@mods Thank you.

PalmAndNeedle Jun 19, 2023

@mods Wie sieht's aus, @leuchtturm? Ich will nicht schon wieder umziehen müssen :/

spherulitic Jun 19, 2023

@mods thank you for this! If nothing else, there’s zero chance that #Meta mod policies are compatible with the sort of safe, respectful environment we enjoy here.

IAG Jun 19, 2023

@timayo Have you seen this yet?

Essjay (she / her) 🏳️‍🌈Jun 19, 2023

FYI

BlueWinds Jun 19, 2023

@mods - I heartily approve the decision - looked at the list of people signed on yesterday to see if tech.lgbt was on there yet. :)

I assume you've seen https://tech.lgbt/@[email protected]ial/110571392897163066

Looks like someone made IP tables for blocking Meta preemptively via firewall rule, if you're interested.

Jeff Martin (@[email protected])

Shields up, folks! :blobcatgooglytrash: Facebook is joining the Fediverse and you know what that means. Adtech, surveillance, privacy-invasion-as-a-business-model, and all that. It's what they do. It's what they've always done. We don't expect this time to turn out any differently. :blobcatfacepalm2: The most effective way (that I know of) to fight back is to completely block any Facebook-related IPs at the firewall level. This will prevent Facebook instances from federating with your instance. It will also prevent Facebook scrapers from trying to harvest information from your instance's users, which Mastodon's defederation tool can't do. I made some simple tools to help make blocking Facebook easy for instance admins: https://codeberg.org/cuchazinteractive/iptables-asn-block In this repo, you'll find the ASNs known to be used by Facebook and lists of current IP address ranges for those ASNs. There's also a python script to turn those IP address ranges into firewall rules for iptables, the firewall used by the Mastodon instance setup instructions. And there's a short readme to explain how to use the script and download the IP address ranges. I've confirmed that these IP address ranges will block threads.net, and threads.instagram.com, which are domains currently known to be used by Facebook/Instagram instances. Happy blocking, folks! Stay safe out there.

GladTech

RG Jun 19, 2023

@mods @Alleman 😂 https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/06/19/not-that-kind-of-open

Not That Kind of ‘Open’

Link to: https://fedipact.online/

Daring Fireball

PointlessSpike Jun 26, 2023

@mods Literally the whole reason for Mastodon was to avoid serving capital above people.
But it's so difficult to avoid being subsumed by such an overwhelmingly powerful system.