Mastodawn

Reddit is totally pulling a Twitter.

I'd say a Reddit client is at least technically possible, unlike Twitter, but pricing would have to be around $10/month which really reduces the # of users that would be willing to pay to where it may just not be financially viable.
https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/

📣 Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing. Bad news for third-party apps, their announced pricing is close to Twitter's pricing, and Apollo would have to pay Reddit $20 million per year to keep running as-is.

Hey all, I'll cut to the chase: 50 million requests costs $12,000, a figure far more than I ever could have imagined. Apollo made 7 billion...

reddit

“The enterprise tier is a privilege that we will extend to select partners based on a number of factors, including value added to redditors and communities, and it will go into effect on July 1.”
Thank you sir, may I have another.
https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/

API Update: Enterprise Level Tier for Large Scale Applications

Posted in r/redditdev by u/FlyingLaserTurtle • 0 points and 30 comments

reddit

The thing that bothers me most about this Reddit stuff is the Gaslighting. If you are going to kill off all clients, just own it. Don't lie and say you value 3rd party clients and then act like they should be thankful for your over priced, unsustainable access plans.

More Reddit gaslighting. You can't really compare two different apps that may have widely different user bases. If anything they should compare the Reddit app vs Apollo, but even that isn't a fair comparison.

If Reddit honestly wants to support 3rd party apps, change the pricing model completely.
Free Advice:
Charge per active user per day, not API calls.
Add fair per user rate limits.
Promise API parity.
Give devs 2-3 months to implement these changes.

https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/jmmptma/

API Update: Enterprise Level Tier for Large Scale Applications

Posted in r/redditdev by u/FlyingLaserTurtle • 0 points and 757 comments

reddit

Matt Gagle Jun 3, 2023

@paul it’s pretty obvious that they are trying to kill off 3rd party apps without doing it directly.

Christopher Evans Jun 3, 2023

@paul <gallery type=“peanut”>Have premium Reddit accounts. They can use apps. If needed, rate limit the user.</gallery >

@becomingwisest basically. Like I would have paid Twitter to be able to continue to use Tweetbot.

Instead, now I'm using Adblock and web Twitter rather than the app.

For Reddit, I'll probably just stop if I can't use Apollo as Reddit just doesn't have a usable mobile browser interface.

Matt Jun 3, 2023

@paul just charge users directly if they want to be able to use 3rd party apps. That’s it. Done.

Chris Adamson Jun 3, 2023

@paul At any rate, Reddit has clearly declared that the enshittification has begun, and the company is committed to it. Instead of debating details, all of us users should come to grips with the idea that the platform’s best days are now behind it.

Michael Cook Jun 3, 2023

@paul Just let Reddit subscribers use the API. They’re already paying.

Want a 3rd party app? You have to subscribe.

The 3rd party app space won’t be as big, but at least it can still exist.

Nick McGuire Jun 3, 2023

@paul wow that post is not well considered. I can’t believe they would disparage third party apps (ignoring Alien Blue of course) and Apollo specifically 🤮

John Davis Jun 3, 2023

@paul I can’t believe they tripled-down and used data caused by their own outage.

https://reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/_/jmolrhn/?context=1

API Update: Enterprise Level Tier for Large Scale Applications

Posted in r/redditdev by u/FlyingLaserTurtle • 0 points and 1,827 comments

reddit

Mark Biswas Jun 3, 2023

@paul All of the Reddit app devs have announced the pricing won’t work for them, even the so-called “efficient” ones. I don’t understand why Reddit won’t admit what they’re doing, instead of hiding behind patently false arguments absolutely nobody is buying.

Holger Krupp Jun 3, 2023

@paul i always wondered if Twitter (and Reddit) should charge the enduser for the API usage instead of the app developer. I would have payed my 5 or 8€ for Twitter if it would enable API access to be used with Tweetbot.

Gerty Steinblatt Jun 3, 2023

@paul
"You are our business model, we sell you like carrots in the supermarket, but we also traffic all your carrot data to huge corporations and pimp you out to attract advertisers who pay us for your carrot clicks. But aaaall these operations are sooooo expennnnsivvvve! [whiney whingey whine] So now we're charging our carrots for the privilege of being sold, pimped out & data trafficked. Oh wait, that's you. We value your custom. Thank you for using Redditt!"

Olav Jun 3, 2023

@paul
Their argument is "LLM scraping" which is BS because it's not difficult to add a registration system for user apps like Apollo to be exempt.

Except it's about money. They think this will provide a positive revenue stream leading up to their IPO. They're wrong like Twitter is wrong. I doubt forcing people to the native app will have any appreciable effect.on ad revenue

@paul spot on! Almost like you’ve done this before…

Semmelstulle Jun 3, 2023

@paul yes please.
I can't ditch Reddit like I did with Twitter though. Reddit is way too practical for nicht questions and usually the best place to find hacks and workarounds.

Kevin R Jones May 31, 2023

@paul The other big problem about this Reddit stuff, is that a third party client is about the only efficient way a screen reader user can use it. Blind screen reader users will basically be prohibited from using Reddit from now on.

Yann May 31, 2023

@kevinrj @paul same thing for voice control, so disappointing

bgt lover Jun 1, 2023

@kevinrj @paul yep, exactly. Soon enough, only the fediverse will be accepting the use of third party clients, then we'll truely know which person/company is for the people and who is in only for the money. Newsflash, most of the world squarely fits in the latter category.

Locksmith May 31, 2023

@paul Gaslighting is the rule of the game, it seems.

@paul so frustrating to see this continuing to happen

Jason Petersen (he)May 31, 2023

@paul I literally stopped paying attention after the last update because things sounded like they were in a good place. Today I see a post where the Apollo guy says their plan would cost him $20MM/yr. Just, what the fuck? Gaslighting is right. I feel so bad for the guy (and so soon after the same happened to you all. Bad vibes this year)

Saad Mahamood May 31, 2023

@paul Agreed. A false choice is no choice at all.

@paul Deleted my account. Goodbye Reddit.

Jon_Alper May 31, 2023

@paul They want to charge more per user than they could ever dream of earning in CPM from the same number of users. It’s ab-%£¥&ing-surd.

Paul Kratt May 31, 2023

@paul I wish the Twitter and Reddit situations could mirror social networks 20 years ago and client makers would just be willing to play cat and mouse & mimic the official clients to waste their time. AOL eventually gave up and let 3rd party clients stay. It was nice having 1 client like Adium support everything.

In both situations here we have web apps that you can just wrap for their login tokens. I’d love to see Elon accidentally block TweetDeck.

Sadly, I know money makes that unlikely.

ketchup71 Jun 3, 2023

@sappharad @paul With gated access to the customers (like Apples AppStore), it is technically possible to keep „rogue“ 3rd party clients off the devices. Which makes it a simple, already solved, legal problem. The best 3rd party devs can hope for is some legal loophole, which will be plugged eventually. So why bother? 🤷‍♂️

In short: There won’t be 3rd party apps, if Reddit decided to price them out, because it is technically impossible to get it to users. 😢

Paul Kratt Jun 3, 2023

@ketchup71 I wasn’t thinking about mobile, especially with Reddit, but I acknowledge that most people do not use computers anymore.

Brendan Shanks May 31, 2023

@paul It's insulting. A Reddit employee: “Apollo is calling the API at a rate of 345 events per daily active user, per day. Other major 3P apps are calling the API at a rate of 99 events per daily active user, per day. Apollo could reduce their cost by 3.5x if they were as efficient as these other 3P apps.”

https://old.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/13wshdp/api_update_continued_access_to_our_api_for/jmddwnj/?context=3

API Update: Continued access to our API for moderators

Why are you assuming Apollo is just not used more than those other apps? If those other apps are using 3x less API calls, but are also being used...

reddit

Josh Jun 1, 2023

Impressive. This is idiotic for two separate reasons.

Davey Craney May 31, 2023

@paul 💯 I can’t believe there basically blew smoke up the Apollo devs ass about fair play then pulled a Twitter.

If they do this I am done with Reddit… I left Twitter because of the douche… I’ll do the same here…

Dani Danis Jun 1, 2023

Murray Williams Jun 1, 2023

@paul I remember when tech was fun. And, that’s what I love about Ivory. Your product is a light in this ever darkening tech landscape. Be great! We need you now more than ever.

Gracjan Nowak Jun 3, 2023

@paul What big companies, including Reddit and Twitter don’t understand is that users using third-party clients are often the “power users”. They’re most engaged with the platform. They’re creating value for other users, thus creating value for the company.

jake has moved to mstdn.social Jun 8, 2023

@paul yeah. at least own it like elon did when he killed off tweetbot

warrenkopp May 31, 2023

@paul these numbers sound insane. https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/

📣 Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing. Bad news for third-party apps, their announced pricing is close to Twitter's pricing, and Apollo would have to pay Reddit $20 million per year to keep running as-is.

Hey all, I'll cut to the chase: 50 million requests costs $12,000, a figure far more than I ever could have imagined. Apollo made 7 billion...

reddit

@paul this is why the future is federated.

Robert Petersen

@paul sigh

Charis Rooda 🌿May 31, 2023

@paul oh I might someday really have time for gardening!

Sean C.May 31, 2023

@paul if you built it, i would pay for it, since you and your team are a company i have come to trust

Dan Walker May 31, 2023

@paul honestly don't see myself continuing to use reddit with NEARLY the frequency I do now if I can't continue using Apollo.

aburtch May 31, 2023

@rowdypixel @paul I'm with Dan. I love Apollo, but no way I'd use it at $10/month.

Alex May 31, 2023

@paul probably way more though because those 10 dollar users are really going to up the average calls per user.

@paul yeah well, as soon that pricing is live i guess it's goodbye reddit from me :)

@paul We're gonna need federated Reddit now

bangaroo 🦘May 31, 2023

@paul really hating to see this new trend but kind of wondered how long you'd be able to get around seeing ads on these platforms by paying a third party.

monorail times May 31, 2023

@paul oh no :(

Jorge Salvador Caffarena May 31, 2023

@paul well if I have to stop using Apollo, seems like Reddit is the next social network I will be quitting from. My sanity is way healthier anyway each time I drop a new one.

Stefan Plattner May 31, 2023

@paul Gaaah!! If Apollo has to shut down, Reddit is basically dead to me.

Hypx May 31, 2023

@paul Reddit will probably eventually go the way of twitter too. People who are on that platform should be aware they eventually will have to leave there too.

Narles May 31, 2023

@paul it boggles my mind that a company would look at post-Elon acquisition Twitter and think “This is the way.”

Carlos May 31, 2023

@paul reddit does this to Apollo and i'm out. I dont use that service enough to really care for the 1st party app. Poor Christian.

Eugene Kim May 31, 2023

@paul I really hope @caseyliss sees this and understands the folly of trying to have a lifetime unlock on an app that relies on an api/data source you have no control over.

@paul I don't see why 3rd party apps couldn't show the same ads as the official, and Reddit could keep all the same revenue/traffic. The 3rd party would have to rely on app sales and or subscription to make their revenue.

@paul this isn’t about 3rd party clients. It’s about preventing data harvesting for AI training and LLMs. Apollo is caught in the crossfire.

@trifster and Twitter's API crackdown was about preventing spam… 🤪

@paul no. I think that’s to become YT/TikTok faster. Video ads 💰

Toni Lampela 🇫🇮🇺🇦Jun 1, 2023

@paul I wonder will #lemmy (https://lemmy.ml/) now see similar influx of users as #Mastodon did.

Dom Jun 1, 2023

@paul Saw the message from Cristian on Apollo. Twitter has proven one thing: no platform is indispensable. (Although, I have to admit that I still go back there, with diminishing frequency, to check up on people I follow who haven't migrated to Mastodon).