Dr Sean GeogheganMay 11, 2023
Christopher Mims

I'm just going to admit this even though it makes me sound like an insensitive asshole, because look, we all make mistakes and the point is to grow, right?

when I first came to Mastodon and people were reminding me to add alt text to my images, I was a little irked

then I read several posts about how much this means to people who rely on reading apps to understand the web

now I'm fully converted. I enjoy writing alt text.

and I think it's crazy this isn't standard across all social mediums.

May 10, 2023 at 12:53pmWeb
Show threadChristopher MimsMay 10, 2023

I should add: Sometimes my posts with images don't have alt text

this is not for lack of trying

it happens sometimes when I post something from my phone

Mastodon on Safari on iOS does this incredibly annoying thing where even if you type in alt text, it cuts off the button that lets you save it

I have tried everything to get around this bug and it vexes me regularly

feature request to the powers that be: please fix this!

Show threadbseMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Metatext app on iPhone is great for creating alt-text for images
Show threadYury MolodtsovMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Any particular reason for not using Ivory/Mona on iOS?
I think Alt Text has always been too well-hidden on most platforms, even the ones which supported it.
Show threadChristopher MimsMay 10, 2023
@yury_mol I absolutely refuse to have any social apps on my phone. it's a psychologically protective measure I've taken for years. too tempting to distract myself with them otherwise
Show threadYury MolodtsovMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I see. Have you tried https://elk.zone?
It's a web app so you can open it in your browser, looks very similar to Twitter and I think their "alt text" workflow does work on mobile.
Elk

A nimble Mastodon web client

Elk
Show threadChristopher MimsMay 10, 2023
@yury_mol cool! thanks for the tip
Show threadRich Stein (he/him)May 12, 2023

@mimsical @yury_mol
Yes, "alt text" on https://elk.zone/home works great on mobile (Android; can't speak to iPhone). The web version is also very good.

FYI, a bit more complicated, but you can do an @OCRbot installation which will generate text from images in fediverse posts. Some more here: https://econtwitter.net/@RichStein/110271233029292734

Have a great day.

Elk

A nimble Mastodon web client

Elk
Show threadold_tootbruteMay 11, 2023
@mimsical @yury_mol this is a very good strategy. i gotta do this.
Show threadelle mundyMay 10, 2023
@mimsical been using @MonaApp, which is finally out on the app store, and it’s super easy to do in this app
Show threadMark LoundyMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Why are you using Safari on iOS? There are a number of Mastodon apps, such as Metatext, Toot!, and others.
Show threadpaprikapinkMay 10, 2023
@markloundy @mimsical
asked & answered ☺️ https://mastodon.social/@mimsical/110344526214168612
Show threadAlex WildMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I use a very brief alt-tex when uploading from my phone, then rewrite longer from a web browser. The bug is pretty annoying.
Show threadPaul RohrMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Pro tip: If your server has upgraded to Mastodon 4.1 or later (most have), you should be able to edit your post later to fix the alt text, using a less-broken client.
Show threadjforMay 10, 2023

@mimsical
Mastodon on the DuckDuckGo browser on iOS works for alt text

https://mstdn.social/@fae2535/110345081346611912

jfor (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Testing alt description on mobile - DuckDuckGo Browser

Mastodon 🐘
Show threadLynetteMay 12, 2023
@mimsical What about using a Mastodon client? I haven't used it on Safari on my iPhone, although it's great on Safari for Mac. There are some wonderful free Mastodon apps available for iOS.
Show threadAsbjørn UlsbergMay 13, 2023
@mimsical I can recommend following @alt_text or @PleaseCaption so they can remind you when you forget! Also, @ivory will remind you as well.
Show threadSamuel Prudencio May 10, 2023
@mimsical @Barredo +1
Show threadEmbucoMay 10, 2023
@mimsical it can be helpful to have an image description even if you can see the image!
Show threadPeter ButlerMay 11, 2023

@embuco @mimsical Hear. hear! I often read alt-text and have no vision problems

“Exactly what am I looking at here?” … the context often helps me

Show threadJohn MierauMay 10, 2023
@mimsical that kind social engineering makes us all better people, I think... well said!
Show threadConor O'NeillMay 10, 2023
@mimsical
Alt text on images should be enforced at the API, so that it is impossible to post a toot without it.
It's silly just to rely on people remembering.
#AltText #Images
Show threadReay JespersenMay 10, 2023

@mimsical My only problem with writing it is not being sure where to cut description. Does the shape of the image itself matter? Are colours helpful?, etc.

But I figure even if I don’t cover absolutely all the bases I possibly could, it’s at least there. I’d rather fall short in trying to help others than not bother making the effort at all from not knowing if it’ll be enough.

Show threadPattyMB 🦅May 10, 2023
@reay @mimsical I tend to over-describe in my #AltText descriptions.
Show threadDopeGhotiMay 11, 2023
@reay @mimsical
Pretend that all you can see is the text in the post and an empty box where the image is. The alt-text should be sufficient to describe the attachment with enough detail and specificity to describe it well enough that the text in the box would be sufficient to substitute for the attachment, and have the same enhancing effect to the post that the attachment does.
Show threadLiz Ellis She/Her🌳May 10, 2023
@mimsical Alt text is also the place to add little easter eggs of snark, humour or info, giving screen readers extra value.
Show threadMichael ☕️May 10, 2023
@LizEllisPhD @mimsical
The XKCD method. 😄
Show threadLiz Ellis She/Her🌳May 11, 2023
@mcpinson @mimsical I had to google that, but, yes!
Show threadmaegulMay 10, 2023

@mimsical In scientific papers, often the best bits are the figure captions ... the alt-texts for the graphs.

I suspect there's a certain clarity and facility achieved in text by fixating on a graphical/visual reference and "speaking to it". Same with slide shows (as awful as they can be when done lazily).

Show threadWEI EN MusicMay 10, 2023

@mimsical when I began to understand what it meant to those who need it, doing it became a must for me.

Someone said it's like how you would describe what you're seeing to a friend and that stuck with me.

Show threadTim MurtaughMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I've started using dictation to add alt text and for whatever reason that makes it fun for me
Show threadmoduluxMay 10, 2023
@mimsical For what it's worth, thanks. I like to think that cases like yours are evidence that we're not just screaming into the void when we try to educate people.
Show threadSarah RussellMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Thank you for adding alt text and not taking it personally in the end. :) Alt text means so much and allows those of us blind folks a chance to enjoy images as much as anyone. So thank you for this.
Show threadChristy SMay 10, 2023
@mimsical So, I'm a blind person and I always appreciate alt text. However, I've recently learned that it's not just us blind folks. Some neurodiverse people might have trouble with visually processing images, or understanding emotion from those images. The text helps them better interpret what they're seeing depending on how it's done. I found that fascinating.
Show threadlizzzzardMay 11, 2023
@Faylen @mimsical and it doesn't end there. I might be able to see the image, but my *interpretation* will likely differ from the author's. A good alt text describes what the author sees in a picture, what's important to them. And that add information or emotion even for seeing and neurotypical people.
Show threadPeter CohenMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I've begun to enjoy it as another slightly veiled opportunity to shitpost, tbh
Show threadre_chiefMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I know this isn't the point of alt text, but I genuinely enjoy writing it as a sort of creative exercise. It's fun for me to take an image and to write descriptive text to explain what it looks like
Show threadB.I.L.L. the AlienMay 10, 2023

@mimsical

I wonder how much success A.I. would have at describing images. Worth a shot.

Show threadMichael ☕️May 10, 2023
@Oneworldnot3 @mimsical
AI would probably generate a decent description of an image, but it would likely miss completely the context of the conversation--what makes the image worthwhile in a specific dialog.
Show threadBob StarrMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I was the exact same and then someone posted the importance of this to make the experience as full as possible for everyone. I'd never even thought about it before so really made sure to add alt text. Admittedly, my descriptions are not great but getting better.
Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyMay 10, 2023

@mimsical

That's very awesome of you. ❤️

I'm a big fan of:

1. Alt text
2. These birds

So I'm shamelessly plugging my thread on doing it and why you should.

https://mastodon.ie/@Homebrewandhacking/110055008542908655

PJ Coffey (@[email protected])

Attached: 4 images How do I do good alt text? This is the hard part. I'll use some examples from D-A grade below (IMO) and I'm not expert. Share this with people who don't understand accessibility helps them meet their goals. Also, images and posts cost money to host. Don't forget to support your local Mastodon server, even tiny amounts help! #BuyYourRound #MastodonServer #accessibility Edit: A reader informs me that screenreaders don't do paragraphs of alt-text just one big lump. So try and be concise! T/T

mastodon.ie
Show threadBruceMay 10, 2023

@mimsical yeah accessibility is very important.

I just recently started learning some of the accessibility basics for web development. It’s a shame that there aren’t many courses and tutorials don’t prioritise it.

Show threadEssjay (she / her) 🏳️‍🌈May 10, 2023

@mimsical

Also Alt text is a great vehicle for humour and / or subversion 😉

Show threadCottonEyedJoMay 10, 2023
@mimsical @worldblindherald It just makes you sound like a normal person with a life. Thanks for learning about it and thanks for doing it. It really is appreciated.
Show threadRoni Rolle LaukkarinenMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Exactly. I think the culture in Mastodon is great in this regard. People care. My wife is deafblind and we have many blind followers. The descriptive texts are everything to these folks. It's a small thing but a huge act of kindness.
Show threadAmiW Streetart ❄️May 10, 2023
@mimsical ❤️👍
Show threadSex ForwardMay 10, 2023
@mimsical This is something I haven't got around to doing - website has been live about 3 weeks - thank you for this post - you have encouraged me to go right ahead and get the alt text done on my pages
Show threadWTLMay 10, 2023
@mimsical @rolle This is our chance to do better by normalizing the behaviour. @TAV suggested that it would be great if apps could help get things rolling. An app like @ivory might be able to pull tags from Photos for example.
Show threadShaneLeeMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I don’t know what “alt” text is?
Show threadPrincess UnikittyMay 10, 2023
@mimsical
I'm shocked that the image standards don't support embedded alt text. There's a feature to embed dates and geographic coordinates, but no descriptions? So everyone who posts has to re-write every time? Why?
Show threadChris MurphyMay 10, 2023
@unikitty @mimsical You got me curious, so I did a cursory look at the EXIF spec and there is in fact a description field. I then added a caption to a photo on my iPhone, and when I dumped the EXIF data the caption text showed up as the image description. So looks like the infrastructure would be there for Fediverse apps to use the EXIF image description as alt text, if it's set.
Show threadPrincess UnikittyMay 10, 2023

@chris @mimsical

Interrrrresting! I wonder why this hasn't caught on for the web (or maybe I just don't know about it?)

I would think memes would auto-describe with embedded data by now.

Show threadWaterluvianMay 10, 2023

@mimsical I think a solution to this would be to provide regular reports to users of “# people tried to access missing alt text on a toot of yours.”

It’s hard to ask people to do extra work for some abstract audience that, in their minds, may not even exist. But if they see that “76 people” could have benefitted from that work… it cements it in reality.

Show threadSteve Moore May 10, 2023
@mimsical
My instance has a 500 character limit, alt text is 1500 character, & I can add 4 photos to a post, so if I have more to say & don't want to thread it I can elaborate in alt text, adding context & musings along with the description.
Show threadGarry KeenorMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I think people's willingness - or otherwise - to add alt text (having had the need explained to them) is an *excellent* barometer of their overall kindness and empathy. If you've got time to post, but not to alt - that tells me a *lot* about your priorities
Show threadted byfieldMay 10, 2023
@mimsical 💯. Writing alt text is a genuinely interesting challenge on many levels, all of them good. I get why some people see it as an obstacle, but it's also an invitation — to look more closely, strike a balance between summary and detail, and hone your writing skills.
Show threadJeroen van BergenMay 11, 2023
@tb @mimsical Exactly. It challenges me to think once more about what I am trying to communicate with that picture.
Show threadcostrikeMay 10, 2023
@mimsical Same. The alt text is where I often have fun now.
Show threadKim ScheinbergMay 10, 2023

@mimsical
Writing alt text has made me both a better writer and a clearer thinker. It's also an excellent filter. (Nothing like having to explain a joke to make you think about whether the joke is worth posting.)

Three thumbs up to alt text.

Show threadPēteris KrišjānisMay 10, 2023
@mimsical I have similar experience - when I started to do it, it just made sense and makes sharing of picture more personal.