Mastodawn

So the 0.4mm vs 0.6mm nozzle debate is nothing new in #3dprinting, but it is something I've lived in denial about.

I have used different nozzle sizes before, especially when printing larger enclosures for some of my projects. I can easily use anything from a 0.6mm all the way to a 1.2mm nozzle. It can easily reduce a print by 4 to 6 hours.

But I always find myself switching back to my "default" 0.4mm nozzle as soon as I am done with such a project.

This debate is nothing new and with #Aracne in #prusaslicer you might not even notice the difference switching 0.6mm.

But I have found myself at an impasse.

My 0.4mm profiles are just so well tuned after years of printing. Perfect first and top layers. Excellent strength, long bridges and no stringing. I couldn't ask for better!

But now switching to my 0.6mm nozzle, I can see I have a lot of work cut out before I'll be cutting any printing time.

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Stark Mar 31, 2023

Here are two videos on the topic for those interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXM2zPusXo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmigF5qyJ4M&t=564s

@3dprinting #3dprinting

0.4mm nozzles just became obsolete

YouTube

Marta 🌿🍃Apr 1, 2023

@Stark9837 @3dprinting I like this video with actual print quality comparison. With wide lines and Adaptive layers, I don't see myself switching to 0.6mm nozzle anytime soon.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xFmI25MJ93w

Which ONE is the BEST NOZZLE SIZE?? (for Cura 5+ & PrusaSlicer 2.5+)

YouTube

Stark Apr 1, 2023

If I have the time to tweak it, I'll slowly do it over the next few months, but my print from last night showed that my 0.6mm calibration isn't ready yet for printing everything.

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Stark Mar 31, 2023

My first steps will need to be #LinearAdvanced tuning with the K-test.

Linear Advance is a technique for controlling the pressure in the nozzle, especially around corners and tight spots. It simulates the filament like a spring, using a K factor.

Something many don't realise, is that this not only helps with corners, curves and turns, but also layers.

You might have noticed that your first layers and infill is good, until the printed reaches the edge perimeters. You then find these blobs and almost over extrusion as the printer slows down, but keeps on extruding the same amount of plastic.

I am clearly seeing this in my first layers and top layer now.

Linear Advanced tuning and calibration by #TechingTech on #YouTube

https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#linadv

The K constant or "Spring Constant" as defined by Hooke's Law, just fun insight and background:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke's_law

Linear Advance #Marlin #Firmware:

https://marlinfw.org/docs/features/lin_advance.html

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Stark Mar 31, 2023

Often the first thing to calibrate by many is the z-offset. This is not wrong, but because I already have my z-offset so well tuned for my 0.4mm nozzle at 0.21mm, it isn't too wrong to just use this for my 0.6mm nozzle.

Some would notice that 0.21 is just more than half of 0.4, so 0.3 or something in that range could work for a 0.6mm nozzle.

Could be, but I have found that z-offset is no perfect science and it is just one of those things that you need to test.

But because of the effects and improvements due to #LinearAdvance, I like to tune it first. Because, on a single line you would not notice an incorrect z-offset at all, except if it is completely wrong and you get no bed adhesion at all.

So by eliminating that factor, you can then safely tune the z-offset after Linear Advance

First layer and z-offset by #TeachingTech on #YouTube

https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#firstlayer

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Stark Mar 31, 2023

Tuning #LinearAdvance also only involves a single parameter, the K-value.

Tuning the z-offset actually has a few, which you could use moving from a 0.4mm nozzle to a 0.6mm nozzle.

Firstly, you bed needs to be level, or trammed. Your #3dprinter needs to be leveled to ensure that it corrects the flex and warping of your bed.

Secondly, there is the z-fade, recently introduced in #Marline #firmware and other firmware like #klipper

The z-fade allows for a layer-by-layer fade of the correction of the leveling and tramming, to ease out the correction as it becomes less prominent as the layers increase.

I can clearly see this in my prints, with layers below 1.2mm z-height being ugly and layers above that near perfect. As the effects of a non-level bed becomes less prominent.

Thus, it is clear that #LinearAdvance is a good place to start when making this switch. But if you are just starting to tune your printer, rather start with the z-offset and bed-leveling.

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Stark Mar 31, 2023

The next good place to start is Slicer Flow Calibration.

This calibrates your flow and extrusion of your printer. This mostly comes into affect with layer adhesion and adhesion between walls.

If you are noticing gaps between your walls, when using multiple walls, or that your print dimensions are off, this is most likely the problem.

This one is also not that simple to tune, it you need to test it with multiple filaments to get a base line and get something that "almost" works and then tune it further.

I usually tune it to my printer and then to my filament. I do this by calibrating the slicer flow and extrusion width in my slicer for the printer and my extruder and then increasing the extrusion multiplier for each individual filament as I need it.

For example, my extrusion multiplier for #PLA is 1.0 but 1.07 for #ABS.

Slicer Flow Calibration by #TeachingTech on #YouTube:

https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#flow

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Stark Mar 31, 2023

An important thing to remember is that this is also dependent on the brand of filament, your usual temperature settings and the colour.

I for example have a clay coloured #PLA which is very milky. It is very soft and pliable almost like lead and gold, more so than other colours like red. So I have a lower extrusion multiplier for it than I have for colours such as black or white.

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Rob M Mar 31, 2023

@Stark9837 great thread, thanks.

Stark Mar 31, 2023

Thanks for joining in my journey. I hope you enjoyed it and that it helped! Will update on my results over the weekend.

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Rob M Mar 31, 2023

@Stark9837 I can’t think of why there would be any relationship between a offset and nozzle opening.

Stark Mar 31, 2023

It changes the surface tension of the plastic, the area of extrusion and volume increases. Depends on the viscosity of the filament.

Take a small pipe, and try to blow a gooie liquid through it as you keep it close to a surface.

Do the same with a thicker pipe.

It will run easier, but the shape and top surface wouldn't be the same.

MikeK Mar 31, 2023

@Stark9837 @3dprinting

Damn I love this place.This post is sandwiched between the Dominion judgment and Rupert Murdoch.
Kind of where I wanna be.

Koz Ross Mar 31, 2023

@Stark9837 @3dprinting The thing is, any such debate ignores two factors:

* Many, if not most, models are designed with 0.4mm nozzle line widths, which means 0.6s may lose critical detail, especially on functional parts.
* A thicker nozzle will only print faster if you're flow limited due to acceleration. If you're flow limited due to cooling or your hotend, then a wider nozzle won't print any faster, and may, in fact, even be _slower_.

Koz Ross Mar 31, 2023

@Stark9837 @3dprinting While you can argue that this is partly network effects (people _could_ design models for thicker nozzles, printers _could_ come with stock part cooling not made of ass, etc), the reality is that the 0.4 standard is well-entrenched by now, and shifting it won't be easy. Arachne helps, but it's no silver bullet: I've literally had it remove belt teeth from an X carriage before!

Stark Mar 31, 2023

@koz @3dprinting

0.4mm nozzles were made the norm, because it was easy to improve quality with bad printers. It was an advertisement thing and an excuse and silver bullet for bad printers.

0.6mm is now good enough with #Arcne, but it does take some tweeking. I am just switching for the speed improvements.

I have already used it a lot with vase mode, that's why my other settings aren't tuned yet for actual surfaces and thicker walls.

Koz Ross Apr 1, 2023

@Stark9837 @3dprinting Glad that Arachne works for your prints! I've had very mixed experiences, especially on 3D printer parts, so I usually use 0.4s.

Stark Mar 31, 2023

I agree.

I am, however, not limited by my hotend at the moment, more by my printer.

The only reason why I am still running #Octoprint and #Marlin is because I don't have the accelerometer yet to tune #InputShaping in #Klipper. Once I get it, I will make the switch, because until then, the effort won't be "worth" it because my improvement might be minimal except for a slight increase in speed.

The reason why I haven't upgraded my hotend yet is because of the cost and also the due to the weird shape and form of the #Creality #CR6SE due to the load cell bed leveling sensor

Replacing the hotend won't be worth it until after I switch to Klipper because I can probably hit between 15 and 20 mm^3/s flow rate.

@3dprinting #3dprinting

Leon Brocard Apr 1, 2023

@koz @Stark9837 @3dprinting I use a 0.6 mm nozzle as I mostly value printing speed over detail. I’ve noticed a few parametric models include nozzle size and layer height as parameters, which seems like the best way forward. e.g. https://github.com/franpoli/OpenSCADutil/blob/master/ikea_skadis_pegboard_accessories/ikea_skadis.scad

OpenSCADutil/ikea_skadis.scad at master · franpoli/OpenSCADutil

Shared libraries, modules, or scripts related to OpenSCAD - OpenSCADutil/ikea_skadis.scad at master · franpoli/OpenSCADutil

GitHub

Koz Ross Apr 1, 2023

@orangeacme @Stark9837 @3dprinting That's a really clever idea, and I hope it catches on.

Stark Apr 1, 2023

@koz @orangeacme @3dprinting

I also started using layer height and nozzle sizes in my parametric models. I recently used it in my #Fusion360 design for my LED bar I designed for my enclosure.

It is definitely a good idea with wall thickness and chamfer sizes and helps to reduce print time even more and improve quality.

Bridget Mar 31, 2023

@Stark9837 @3dprinting

I leave my Anycubic mega X with a 0.6mm all the time in hardened steel so I can do wood, glow in the dark or whatever but mostly PETG

My Prusa mini has a 0.4mm plated brass nozzle for nice PETG prints, it has had 0.2- 0.3mm ones on it a lot in the past for trying things out

My voron 0.1mm has a 0.4mm hardened steel, it's enclosed and occasionally does PCCF but mostly just PETG

All are on klipper & mainsail now, and yeah the Prusa Mini's stock linear advance was a little bit off, but then that might be due to replacing the Bowden with narrower Capricorn tube

I guess it's all use case based