snort.forceMar 30, 2023
Scott Santens

In 2019, trains in the US traveled 777 million train-kilometers and experienced 1,338 derailments.

The same year trains in the EU traveled 4.5 billion train-kilometers and experienced 73 derailments.

Japan: 2 billion train-kilometers and 9 derailments.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/30/us/raymond-minnesota-train-derailment/index.html

Mar 30, 2023 at 3:45pmWeb
Show threadRiley S. FaelanMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens: Their trains might not run on time, but at least they're consistent: they dun't run on rails, either.
Show threadRhialtoApr 2, 2023
@riley @scottsantens this triggers one of my pet peeves: misuse of "experience". Most uses of the verb "to experience" are bad. On top of that, trains are not sentient and can't experience anything, even if the verb were used properly.
Show thread๐“๐“ท๐“ญ๐”‚๐“ฃ๐“ฒ๐“ฎ๐“ญ๐”‚๐“ฎ ๐“€คApr 4, 2023
@rhialto @riley @scottsantens My favorite use of the word "experienced": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2XL4P9HRH4
Are You Experienced?

YouTube
Show threadRhialtoApr 5, 2023
@andytiedye @riley @scottsantens that is why I complained about the verb and not the adjective:-)
Show threadYoraMar 30, 2023

@scottsantens

"'Nothing can be done about that thing', says the only country where the thing regularly happens."

Show threadYoraMar 30, 2023

@scottsantens

"'No Way to Prevent This', Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" is the actual quote.

#theonion

Show threadGen X-WingApr 3, 2023
@Yora @scottsantens No country as a whole has never suffered worse from โ€œnot invented hereโ€ syndrome.
Show threadDavid FowlerMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens
All those pesky regulations.
Show threadMarkMar 30, 2023

@scottsantens

When competing with those advanced countries, USA also wins the trophies for traffic deaths, gun deaths, infant mortality, highest-cost health care with worst outcomes, and stupidity.

Show threadJos O (they/them)Mar 30, 2023

@MarkBrigham @scottsantens WEโ€™RE # 1 WEโ€™RE # 1 WEโ€™RE # 1 ๐Ÿฆ… ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿฆ…

But in all seriousness ๐Ÿ˜ข๐Ÿ˜ข๐Ÿ˜ข

Show threadclimate voter/degrowthistMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens Number one!!
Show threadacbMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens Iโ€™m now wondering what proportion of derailments in Japan were earthquake-related and otherwise unavoidable
Show threadMalaclypseMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens Boston's subways literally had more derailments last year than all of Japan had in 2019.
Show threadKit BashirMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens @cstross talk about burying the lede. FREE MOONSHINE. Put the kiddy pool in the back of your pickup and get rolling before itโ€™s all gone!
Show threadbarefootstacheMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens wondering if various states in the US and/or countries in the EU have different standards of rail quality and safety. And if there is a standard on the union level, so USA and EU?
Show threadpatpatterson57Mar 31, 2023
@barefootstache @scottsantens it has uniformly gone to shit in the US as extractive capital has been busy and all US federal regulators are captured by the industries they โ€˜regulateโ€™ - states and localities have virtually no control
Show threadD's lack of faith in humanityMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens another day where "America is #1" takes on a different meaning than someone thought it would.
Show threadNeal OnionsApr 3, 2023
@denniskoch @scottsantens Agreed. It sounds just like guns!
Show threadSlyphicMar 30, 2023

@scottsantens
My first through was that most derailments are due to track conditions more than the trains, so size of rail network might be a better comparison than distance traveled. And looking at the FRA db now, tracks are a scant majority and the US is still lagging.

Derailments to Distance Traveled
US - 1 per 580k km
EU - 1 per 62,000k km
JP - 1 per 222,222k km

Derailments to Total Track Length
US - 1 per 194 km (of 260k km)
EU - 1 per 2068 km (of 151k km)
JP - 1 per 3000km (of 30k km)

Show threadVeedemsMar 31, 2023

@Slyphic @scottsantens

Wow great, even more sobering break down.

Show threadCarrieJLMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens Wow
Show threadCykonotMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens what is the lif of a peasant to a lord?
Show threadYoraMar 30, 2023
@cykonot @scottsantens What's the life of the pigs to the butcher?
Show threadIma Nota Cat ๐Ÿ‘€Mar 30, 2023
@scottsantens
America: We're number one!
Show threadSmokeyGeoMar 30, 2023

@scottsantens those stats aren't in the article - it doesn't offhand seem credible the EU would have 6x more train-kms considering the vaster scale of US freight rail. Reference? This states in 2000, the US moved 2,390 billion ton-km of freight vs the EU with 304 billion ton-km:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transportation_in_the_United_States

Incidentally a great article on derailment causes: https://www.wsj.com/video/series/wsj-explains/how-trains-derail-explained-by-an-ntsb-investigator/E9998212-478E-4CE1-A327-D581A22CF0F0?mod=Searchresults_pos3&page=1

Rail transportation in the United States - Wikipedia

Show threadLN LewisMar 30, 2023

@smokeygeo @scottsantens

Rather than accepting the word of Wall Street Journal and wikipedia,

maybe reading information from actual railroad industry workers would be more enlightening.

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rail---Labor-News-from-RWU---2023---Week--13.html?soid=1116509035139&aid=9tYstaK-cD4

Rail & Labor News from RWU - 2023 - Week #13

๏ปฟRail & Labor News from RWU Weekly Digest Number 13 - March 28th, 2023 View this Email as a Webpage Click here to listen to the headlines and features of this Week's Rail News Welcome to the RWU Rail

Railroad Workers United
Show threadSmokeyGeoMar 31, 2023
@LNLewisWrites @scottsantens
the WSJ is pretty good journalism (as long as you ignore the editorials). Their interview with the NTSB person in charge of rail safety is awesome. Wiki isn't so bad either on the whole
Show threadDanielMar 31, 2023

@smokeygeo @scottsantens
Please also consider the vaster scale of European passenger rail. Sit down by a major city's main station and something is coming or going all day.

This source is particularly paywalled but seems to corroborate the EU number: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1243519/europe-rail-traffic-by-country/

Europe: overall rail traffic 2019 | Statista

Germany recorded the most rail traffic in Europe in 2019, at over 1.1 billion train-kilometers.

Statista
Show threadSmokeyGeoMar 31, 2023

@dan @scottsantens it's well known the EU has far more passenger rail than the US but the US has far more freight rail.
A reasonable source of data is the respective financial statements for SNCF or DBB (the french & german rail carriers) vs Amtrak + BNSF, Norfolk Southern, CSX, the association of american railroads.

It should be noted also that "train-km" underweights freight, whose trains can be a mile long- but ton-km is a more evenly weighted statistic

Show threadDanielMar 31, 2023

@smokeygeo @scottsantens
Yea fair to check sources a bit.

I checked for the official DB stats and they report 1,086 million train-km in 2019, which lines up with my previous statista link so I don't doubt the EU number in the original post. I didn't find a similar report from AAR though.

DB 2019 report: https://ibir.deutschebahn.com/2019/fileadmin/downloads/pdf/duf_e_web_01.pdf

not that train-km is a very comparable metric anyway, as you said :)

Show thread๐ŸŒบ Cat PรถรฑรญรงkรธvฤMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens source this
Show threadLiz the Urban BirderMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens WoW. Thanks for these stats. Both alarming and humbling. And maddening.
Show threadW6KMEMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens Without using the words "buy" or "Congressman", show me how any industry can buy a congressman. Or a lot of them.
Show threadDanMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens ooh it's another example of US exceptionalism! #1 for derailments! NUMEBR ONE NUBMER ONEE11111!!!! YOUU ESSS AYYYEEE
Show threadZoydMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens What do you expect from a third world country?
Show threadZSApr 3, 2023
@zoyd @scottsantens Came here to say this exact same thing.
Show threadJim DuncanMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens when did the US become a near Third World country?
Show threadLyle Solla-YatesMar 31, 2023
@jimduncan @scottsantens by no means guaranteed, but there does appear to be some effort at trying to fix this https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/30/fetterman-brown-casey-rail-safety-bill.html
Senators unveil new rail safety bill in wake of toxic Ohio derailment

Democratic Sens. John Fetterman and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Sherrod Brown of Ohio introduced a new rail safety bill.

CNBC
Show threadJim DuncanMar 31, 2023

@Lyle @scottsantens Fingers crossed.

With little hope.

As a country, we're not in a great place.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/29/1166853074/the-american-trade-off-guns-and-cars-for-a-much-shorter-lifespan

Show threadBlueShiftNZMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens
Yes, but which one made the most profit per million km?
Show threadGreedMar 30, 2023
@scottsantens It's mostly the people. Here in the US of A people care a lot less about everything.
Show threadSophieToupieMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens thatโ€™s what happens when people elect folks who deregulate safety for company profits
Show threadonce wasMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens signs a country is 3rd world trains a mess. last president indicted, mass murder weekly. I think status has been achieved.
Show threadmsgbiMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens @charles_ex track
Show threadJack HarmanMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens I don't think that stat is correct. I can't seem to access the ERADIS database, but this report from 2012 cites about 500 derailments annually in the EU using their data. I suspect the 73 derailments are the "severe derailments" captured by Eurostat
https://d-rail-project.eu/IMG/pdf/DR-D1-2-Report_on_Derailment_Economic_Impact_AssessmentFinal-v1.pdf
Show threadthe_blackwell_ninja [EST]Mar 31, 2023
@scottsantens Well yeah, but Japan spends their money on public services instead of billionaire tax breaks.
Show threadCmessickMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens gotta get every penny out of their investments If it hasn't broken yet why fix or replace it?
Show threadCarnildoMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens Is this comparing apples to apples? I know the vast majority of derailments in the US are low-speed derailments in yards and sidings, where it's basically a case of "Oh, bother. Get a crane over here and lift this thing back on the track." Are the EU and JP numbers all derailments, or just mainline derailments?
Show threadNothings MonsteredMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens but USA railroads beat them both for profits extracted by greedheads! ๐Ÿคช
Show threadKingoftheWhackadoodlesMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens Profits before well everything
Show threadJames HenstridgeMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens That just shows that US trains have more freedom. Rather than being forced to go where the tracks lead them, they go where they want.
Show threadManitcorMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens they have taken too much, our obsession with ever lower taxes needs to stop
Show threadGodzilla died for your sinsMar 31, 2023

@scottsantens American exceptionalism for the WIN.

https://youtu.be/P7JRvwfHFwo

America, Fuck Yeah!

YouTube
Show threadMarcusCSCMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens investment and maintenance of resource, and a legal framework that mandates the above!
Show threadguy,in,a,hatMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens yeah, but have you seen their trains and #tracks? They don't have to deal with prehistoric tracks exposed to the -50C extreme #weather events. Our bullet #trains travel on rails from the 1920's. Lol
Show threadExindivMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens
That is not a fair comparison.
Those European and Japanese rails are far better regulated and maintained.
Do you know of any half derelict amusement parks with roller coasters for a better comparison?
Show threadJustMEMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens that is important data, thanks for sharing! Do you mind linking to the source?
Show threadrabbleMar 31, 2023
@scottsantens the US train safety system is to make cars heavier rather than improving signaling. Itโ€™s also why passenger rail is economical elsewhere but not the US. Fucking crazy.
Show threadKenny MayneMar 31, 2023

@scottsantens

We are in too much of a hurry to get goods and services to places to where they can be sold at a profit. We have built our society around the profit and loss statement, and it still drives our collective behavior despite our attempts to reprioritize safety, family, and our communal quality of life.

Show threadSzymon NowickiApr 1, 2023
@scottsantens @kornel itโ€™s because of strikes and constant renovations of train tracks in Germany that makes them always late or canceled.