mrc2
Fox Moxin
Daniel Barlow@CamWeck it even has a "I went to wizard school and saved the world" story.
(In this vein, also recommend "A Wizard of Earthsea", though not nearly 40 books in that series)
Clarence, 9th Earl of Emsworth@CamWeck
I'm not sure it has to be an either/or. One can still enjoy Potter without agreeing with Rowling. (At least, if Stephen Fry can love Wagner's works despite knowing everything Wagner was, it's clearly possible.)
But I couldn't agree more. Pterry was a far better writer, and a lovely human being. (Though I may be a bit biased: been a fan since 1988 😁)
#Pratchett #Discworld
@EarlOfEmsworth The big difference here is that Wagner is dead. Listening to his music doesn't support his views. Giving money to JK though, is supporting her here and now, and she will use that money and support to hurt real people, right now.
Wraithe@CamWeck @EarlOfEmsworth
And at the risk of belaboring the point: Rowling has _specifically stated_ that the monies she gets and purchases of her stuff help assure her that she’s in the right.
And at the risk of belaboring the point: Rowling has _specifically stated_ that the monies she gets and purchases of her stuff help assure her that she’s in the right.
Dag Ågren ↙︎↙︎↙︎@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck That would assume that the writing of the Harry Potter books are entirely disconnected from the views of JK Rowling, which is just not true, and honestly would be a weird thing to believe.
Sphinx of Black Quartz@WAHa_06x36 @EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck
Rowling has also made her bigotry a front-and-center part of her public persona. Consuming HP media contributes to normalizing that bigotry; it's a statement that trans people don't matter, and advocating for our elimination is a personal peccadillo of no consequence.
@sphinx @WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck
Wagner also made his antisemitism a front-and-center part of his public persona -- summary here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Judenthum_in_der_Musik
Consuming Wagner operas contributes to normalising antisemitism? Maybe, maybe not.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmaEpw7oz0
Wagner also made his antisemitism a front-and-center part of his public persona -- summary here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Judenthum_in_der_Musik
Consuming Wagner operas contributes to normalising antisemitism? Maybe, maybe not.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmaEpw7oz0
@sphinx @WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck
...
"it's a statement that [Jews] don't matter" -- Yes, he was pretty clear on that.
"and advocating for our elimination is a personal peccadillo of no consequence." Has Rowling advocated for the elimination of trans people? Fuckin hell. I'd be up in arms too. What, like gas chambers, or...?
To be clear, I have zero interest in defending Rowling. I'm merely proposing that it's possible to separate the artist from the art, to enjoy some stories (even if the writing is mediocre) without agreeing with their author's every utterance, just as one might listen to Wagner or read Kipling without being disgusted by Jews or thinking British rule in India was a good thing. And hyperbole helps nobody.
... Unless it wasn't hyperbole, and Rowling really has advocated for the elimination of trans folks. I find it unlikely (I find it unlikely that I hadn't heard something of that magnitude -- it's very likely a criminal offence... but then I don't much care what she says, I'm a Pratchett fan), but if so I'm thoroughly sickened.
@WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck
That would assume that the plot and lyrics of Der Ring des Nibelungen are entirely disconnected from the views of Richard Wagner, which is just not true, and honestly would be a weird thing to believe.
Far more so than with Rowling. She's not exactly created a Gesamtkunstwerk, just some books.
Wagner & Me (Stephen Fry)
@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck I am entirely happy with writing off the works of Wagner because he was a piece of shit, I don’t give a fuck about him.
But even so, the nature of the works means the two situations are not really comparable. And, again, Wagner is dead and buried. It’s a lot easier to argue for the death of the artist when the artist is, in fact, dead.
@WAHa_06x36 @EarlOfEmsworth Indeed! In fact, the whole concept of separating the art from the artist was originally proposed by art historians and was always meant to be specific to artists who are no longer with us. It isn't really meant to apply to living people.
kexline@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck Thing is, once you start to notice things about Joanne -- or really, on any adult reread -- you begin to notice things that make the books much less enjoyable.
SkellySoft@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck If you can look past the various flaws that Rowling has in her work and still enjoy it - then reading her books is, in a vaccum, not going to cause any harm. But for the love of god, buy them second hand. Thrift stores, eBay, yard sales - sure. But please, from a trans person, I am begging you - PLEASE DO NOT PAY ROWLING FOR HER BOOKS. She is actively destructive and funds anti trans organisations that make our lives worse. Thanks. 💖
Nicholas Schiller
Avi 🦝@CamWeck Image description: Tweet with the following text.
It's not too late to abandon Harry Potter forever for The Discworld Series, my friends. Come over to our nerdy, little corner. There are 41 of these suckers & Terry Pratchett actually understood what it meant to treat people like humans. Have fun & know you are loved.
It's not too late to abandon Harry Potter forever for The Discworld Series, my friends. Come over to our nerdy, little corner. There are 41 of these suckers & Terry Pratchett actually understood what it meant to treat people like humans. Have fun & know you are loved.
Frost「
｜
｜霜の狼｜人面獣心」🐺❄️
ex or current IDF unwelcome@CamWeck don’t forget the Discworld predecessors like Strata where the idea begins and the trilogy of the Carpet people. And Only you can save the World
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛@JohnLoader6 @CamWeck Oh!
Not that I'm anywhere near finishing all the Discworld books, but if I ever did I'm happy to know there is even more Ptreasure to be discovered. 🥰
Not that I'm anywhere near finishing all the Discworld books, but if I ever did I'm happy to know there is even more Ptreasure to be discovered. 🥰
Dreadnought Holiday@clacke @JohnLoader6 @CamWeck imo you've not read all the Discworld books until you've read them at least twice. With the story arcs and Pratchett's growth as a writer the second read is a different experience.
dr_barnowlPlus entirely more relevant to the real world - just reading Going Postal and, oop, there's a nice explanation of leveraged buyouts.
RJLegault@CamWeck I love SF and am extensively read, but there is something about Pratchett that makes him, for me, unreadable.
Sarah@CamWeck
Pratchett will not appeal to *everyone* who is a former HP fan, but I mean, yeah, let's share him with as many people as possible.
Where Rowling's books are mean-spirited and cruel, Pratchett's are inviting and kind (and hilarious)
He has a few stumbles (I did not love how he wrote about a fat villain in one book, for instance), but I think with most of those things it's clear that if it were pointed out to him, he would genuinely have tried to do better.
FeralRobots@CamWeck '... The other is about a world floating on the back of a space turtle.'
AvisJay 
@CamWeck And "His dark Materials" by Phillip Pullman. It's about fighting the church/religious fanatics and killing god.
🏳️⚧️NotPike🍀
Harry Turtledove@CamWeck Terry could actually write, too.
Mark Gellis 🇺🇸 🇮🇱 🇺🇦 🌈@CamWeck At the risk of sounding like a total jerk, I would like to point out that there is a very simple solution to this problem...
Just buy all your Harry Potter books...used. Someone already bought these books. Nothing you do or do not do will put a single euro into the coffers of Ms. Rowling, if that is important to you.
When you buy a used book, the author gets nothing.
Same deal with libraries, and then you don't even have to pay for the books at all. (Or rather, you have already paid for them, via taxes, etc. You may as well enjoy them.)
(Mind you, if you feel uncomfortable even offering Rowling the "moral support" of reading her books, go ahead and read something else. There's plenty of excellent stuff out there. Discworld is awesome. I'm just saying the relationships between artist, work, and audience can be complicated and maybe, just maybe, it's all right to really love a story even if you think the author is a terrible person. Or an idiot.)
Rory Burford@CamWeck You know what? This sounds exactly like what I need. Which book would you recommend starting on?
@roryburford There are a number of sort of threads int he book series, so it really depends in the type of story you're looking for. I've been recommending "The Wee Free Men" to most people. It's the start of the Tiffany Aching novels and it's sort of his take on the YA magic user child thing and is a good comparison to HP.
@CamWeck ooh, haven't heard of that one. Ta for the tip!
Andy 🏳️🌈🇪🇺🇬🇧🏴@CamWeck see... I tried. I read Colour of Magic and just... Didn't connect with any of the characters.
I've ditched Harry Potter entirely now because I just can't bring myself to read them any more despite having adored them since the start. However, I found I could connect and associate with many of Harry's difficulties at school (homework, relationships, bullying etc). With discworld, for me it was *too* disjointed from reality. I couldn't link to it.
@vespasianvs The early books are not the best, he takes a few novels to find his feet. Most novels stand alone though, or can be read as sort of a thread of books. I would recommend trying "The Wee Free Men" if you want to try again. It's the first of the Tiffany aching books, which are sort of his take on the YA kid magic user thing and is a good parallel to HP.
wydtpf2e@CamWeck https://lithub.com/heres-why-terry-pratchetts-daughter-and-neil-gaiman-are-fighting-with-transphobes-on-twitter/
He also directly debunked islamophobic BS in Jingo.
Most definetly in the category of most excellent of humans.
Here’s why Terry Pratchett’s daughter and Neil Gaiman are fighting with transphobes on Twitter.
All of a sudden, scores of people on Twitter are speculating about the late Terry Pratchett’s feelings on gender. This discourse hasn’t arisen spontaneously—it’s because Neil Gaiman weighed in on a…
djohngo@CamWeck I'll do it!
Ricki Yasha Tarr@CamWeck I've never understood this, there's worlds and worlds of great fantasy fiction, and people act like Harry Potter is the end all, be all.
For I am CJ 
I prefer Anne McCaffrey . . but (almost) anything that can lure people away from devoting their entire lives to ... *checks notes*.. "thing they thought was cool long before the entire world knew how awful of a person the author actually is" would definitely be an improvement 🙂
@ForiamCJ Nothing wrong with Pern!
sandywb14@CamWeck Terry Prachett is awesome. Was always trying to lure my high school students into his world! ❤️
Steve S@CamWeck
There's also the _His Dark Materials_ trilogy by Philip Pullman.
I have no idea about a lot of Pullman's beliefs, but the series is clearly against the use of religious institutions as tools of oppression, even if it doesn't clearly identify the villainous institution as a church.
Adnan@CamWeck for anyone who might be looking at a world with whimsy and easy going reading style (TP while being my fav also has a distinctive style that can take a little bit to get used to the first time), and someone who took feedback and openly supports the trans community, I recommend the worlds of Rick Riordan.