Fox MoxinMar 14, 2023
Show threadClarence, 9th Earl of Emsworth

@CamWeck
I'm not sure it has to be an either/or. One can still enjoy Potter without agreeing with Rowling. (At least, if Stephen Fry can love Wagner's works despite knowing everything Wagner was, it's clearly possible.)

But I couldn't agree more. Pterry was a far better writer, and a lovely human being. (Though I may be a bit biased: been a fan since 1988 😁)
#Pratchett #Discworld

Mar 14, 2023 at 1:13pmWeb
Show threadFox MoxinMar 14, 2023
@EarlOfEmsworth The big difference here is that Wagner is dead. Listening to his music doesn't support his views. Giving money to JK though, is supporting her here and now, and she will use that money and support to hurt real people, right now.
Show threadWraitheMar 20, 2023
@CamWeck @EarlOfEmsworth
And at the risk of belaboring the point: Rowling has _specifically stated_ that the monies she gets and purchases of her stuff help assure her that she’s in the right.
Show threadDag Ågren ↙︎↙︎↙︎Mar 14, 2023
@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck That would assume that the writing of the Harry Potter books are entirely disconnected from the views of JK Rowling, which is just not true, and honestly would be a weird thing to believe.
Show threadSphinx of Black QuartzMar 14, 2023

@WAHa_06x36 @EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck

Rowling has also made her bigotry a front-and-center part of her public persona. Consuming HP media contributes to normalizing that bigotry; it's a statement that trans people don't matter, and advocating for our elimination is a personal peccadillo of no consequence.

Show threadClarence, 9th Earl of EmsworthMar 19, 2023
@sphinx @WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck
Wagner also made his antisemitism a front-and-center part of his public persona -- summary here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Judenthum_in_der_Musik
Consuming Wagner operas contributes to normalising antisemitism? Maybe, maybe not.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmaEpw7oz0
Das Judenthum in der Musik - Wikipedia

Show threadClarence, 9th Earl of EmsworthMar 19, 2023

@sphinx @WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck
...

"it's a statement that [Jews] don't matter" -- Yes, he was pretty clear on that.

"and advocating for our elimination is a personal peccadillo of no consequence." Has Rowling advocated for the elimination of trans people? Fuckin hell. I'd be up in arms too. What, like gas chambers, or...?

Show threadClarence, 9th Earl of EmsworthMar 19, 2023

@sphinx @WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck

To be clear, I have zero interest in defending Rowling. I'm merely proposing that it's possible to separate the artist from the art, to enjoy some stories (even if the writing is mediocre) without agreeing with their author's every utterance, just as one might listen to Wagner or read Kipling without being disgusted by Jews or thinking British rule in India was a good thing. And hyperbole helps nobody.

Show threadClarence, 9th Earl of EmsworthMar 19, 2023

@sphinx @WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck

... Unless it wasn't hyperbole, and Rowling really has advocated for the elimination of trans folks. I find it unlikely (I find it unlikely that I hadn't heard something of that magnitude -- it's very likely a criminal offence... but then I don't much care what she says, I'm a Pratchett fan), but if so I'm thoroughly sickened.

Show threadClarence, 9th Earl of EmsworthMar 19, 2023

@WAHa_06x36 @CamWeck
That would assume that the plot and lyrics of Der Ring des Nibelungen are entirely disconnected from the views of Richard Wagner, which is just not true, and honestly would be a weird thing to believe.

Far more so than with Rowling. She's not exactly created a Gesamtkunstwerk, just some books.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmaEpw7oz0

Wagner & Me (Stephen Fry)

YouTube
Show threadDag Ågren ↙︎↙︎↙︎Mar 19, 2023

@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck I am entirely happy with writing off the works of Wagner because he was a piece of shit, I don’t give a fuck about him.

But even so, the nature of the works means the two situations are not really comparable. And, again, Wagner is dead and buried. It’s a lot easier to argue for the death of the artist when the artist is, in fact, dead.

Show threadFox MoxinMar 19, 2023
@WAHa_06x36 @EarlOfEmsworth Indeed! In fact, the whole concept of separating the art from the artist was originally proposed by art historians and was always meant to be specific to artists who are no longer with us. It isn't really meant to apply to living people.
Show threadkexlineMar 14, 2023
@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck Thing is, once you start to notice things about Joanne -- or really, on any adult reread -- you begin to notice things that make the books much less enjoyable.
Show threadSkellySoftMar 15, 2023
@EarlOfEmsworth @CamWeck If you can look past the various flaws that Rowling has in her work and still enjoy it - then reading her books is, in a vaccum, not going to cause any harm. But for the love of god, buy them second hand. Thrift stores, eBay, yard sales - sure. But please, from a trans person, I am begging you - PLEASE DO NOT PAY ROWLING FOR HER BOOKS. She is actively destructive and funds anti trans organisations that make our lives worse. Thanks. 💖