Mastodawn

Rick Monro Feb 4, 2023

Discovered during the week I was unable to access a Kindle book purchased in 2013. Reason? The order was “too old”, and refund issued to buy again. Which was pointless as the book is now more expensive than when I bought it.

Subsequently discovered 66(!!) other ebooks no longer available for download.

Currently 40 minutes in to a support chat with Amazon.

About to learn, I think, whether we purchase ebooks, or rent them…

[Edit: documenting progress in this thread https://mastodon.online/@monro/109812445178130161]

Rick Monro (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image The problem first appeared last week, when I attempted to open a book on my Kindle. The book cover appeared in my Library as normal. When I tapped on it, the following message appeared:

Mastodon

Paul McBride Feb 4, 2023

@monro oh no. I do not like the sound of that!

Rick Monro Feb 4, 2023

@ThePaulMcBride Not the most satisfying of outcomes, but at least I kinda have the books I want again (or will have 🤪)

@monro sounds like a nightmare. I have a kindle purely because it is the best e-reader hardware. I wish I could have my own copy of the books in epub format though.

Randi EEA Feb 4, 2023

@ThePaulMcBride @monro This is why i backup all my e-books using Calibre....

Paul O'Malley Feb 5, 2023

@Reea
100% agree with you here. I go to the web, download the AZW version and import it into my calibre library.
Admittedly, I also have hundreds of books in Calibre from before I bought a Kindle, so I also use Calibre for managing all the other content on my Kindle also.

`Da Elf Feb 5, 2023

@paulomalley @Reea #Calibre is absolutely Essential for managing my EBooks (some 600+) and yes I get some of it from Amazon.

Someone down a bit in the thread asks if it Cuts Amazon's DRM...why yes, yes it does.

On Android I use MoonPlus Reader (Pro) and it'll cheerfully display Amazon files, DRM or not.

`Da Elf Feb 5, 2023

@paulomalley @Reea And that's 6000+ books.

Elaine Rigues Feb 5, 2023

@elfin @paulomalley @Reea That reminds me that I need to check if it's possible to use Calibre for my Comixology comics. I have bought lots of indie comics to support artists and then Amazon happened. Le sigh.

Paul O'Malley Feb 5, 2023

@lanIka
Yeah, you can use it to manage your comics. I downloaded all of DMZ from my Amazon account and then imported into calibre easily enough.
I can't speak to it further than that though as I haven't read them in ages.

Elaine Rigues Feb 5, 2023

@paulomalley Thank you! I'm swamped with work right now but will try it as soon as I can get some free time in front of a computer.

Signaleleven Feb 5, 2023

@paulomalley @lanIka is there a way to batch download the AWZ files from Amazon? I downloaded a couple of them because I really wanted to have a backup, but I remember it was a lot of clicks for each file.

Paul O'Malley Feb 5, 2023

@signaleleven @lanIka Unfortunately not that I was able to find.
I went through and downloaded each and every individual one. Took a while.

That doesn't mean there isn't a way to so it, I just didn't find one back then.

ArdentArchivist Feb 6, 2023

@lanIka @paulomalley @signaleleven

I did the same. Had to do it in multiple sessions over weeks, but I now have backups of all the books I care about (and most of the rest as well).
Bloody ridiculous that it’s necessary.

🌊 #woke Feb 5, 2023

@elfin
How do you do this? I have tried once and was unsuccessful. But I probably missed something. I might want to try again!
@paulomalley @Reea

skry Feb 5, 2023

Are you on a Mac?
If so, download the Kindle app
Right click download each book
In Finder, Go menu: Go to Folder
paste ~/Library/Containers/com.amazon.Kindle/

digging through those folders you'll see .azw files.

That's as far as I've gotten, but I hope these files can be used by Calibre.

skry Feb 5, 2023

@elfin
Unfortunately Calibre can't read newer Kindle files, so all we can do is back up our books and hope that helps.

`Da Elf Feb 5, 2023

@skry Well, on that:

1. Download all of your media.
2. STOP BUYING MEDIA FROM COMPANIES THAT CAN BORK YOUR PURCHASE.
3. Don't leave your purchases on a corporate infrastructure, bring them local ASAP (disk is cheap).

Guess which one I consider most important.

`Da Elf Feb 6, 2023

@skry I heard that just yesterday. Their DRM is getting better I'm told.

There's a flaw [just wait]. They never learn.

In my day it was just a hex editor [from your local BBS] away.

Hand Rolling your own crypto has never worked that's why we ideally rely on libraries we can beat to crap collectively.

1. Grab your stuff, and wait.
2. DRM has always been defeated, decades before that was a term.

Every Single Time.

[Because mostly they piss off their user base.]

ArdentArchivist Feb 6, 2023

@skry @elfin
Whoa - Calibre can’t read .azw3 files?

I keep meaning to install Calibre as an alternative to Amazon’s Kindle for Desktop (privacy nightmare & I refuse to have it on my ‘puter). Now I’m wondering.
It can convert the files to something else, though, can’t it?

skry Feb 6, 2023

@ArdentArchivist @elfin My understanding so far is that there are plugins for Calibre that can convert some older formats, such as produced in Kindle 1.31 and earlier. But that that window might be closing now that in January they switched to this new DRM that hasn't been broken yet.

skry Feb 6, 2023

@ArdentArchivist @elfin You might be okay with .azw3 but the .kfx files are not usable yet. Not sure.

ArdentArchivist Feb 6, 2023

@elfin @skry
Eh, as someone else said - it’s only a matter of time before it gets broken.
I just get torqued that if I ‘buy’ a copy of something I can’t keep it, put it wherever I want it, and read it wherever/using my choice of e-readers…
Grrr.

skry Feb 6, 2023

@ArdentArchivist @elfin

Same. It's awful.

`Da Elf Feb 6, 2023

@skry Nope. Unix.

skry Feb 6, 2023

FWIW I read while wasting my time today that Linux Kindle versions were likelier to succeed. The workaround is to use an older version of Kindle to download the books before this format took over.

I also found this FWIW: https://gist.github.com/marccarre/645fe68da31678f9191cd3aafecfea1b

But I agree with you. DRM must always die and so it does.

List all available versions of Kindle for Mac and Kindle for PC.

List all available versions of Kindle for Mac and Kindle for PC. - list_kindle_releases.py

Gist

Ridscherli Feb 6, 2023

@skry @elfin using an almost closed ecosystem to solve a problem with an almost closed ecosystem seems kind of ironically.
The error is one step before: why should I buy a content displaying device which forces me to use the content only from one single source?

ArdentArchivist Feb 6, 2023

@paulomalley @Reea @ariane @elfin
Login to your Amazon account, go to Manage your Content and Devices, choose Books, and then you have to through your entire library book by book.
Over on the right hand side, where it says Deliver to Device or something like that, there’s another option that says Download and Transfer to Device.

It’s a pain, but it does allow us to get backup copies (out of Amazon’s control) of what we’ve paid for.

Angus McIntyre Feb 5, 2023

@elfin @paulomalley @Reea "Someone ... asks if it cuts Amazon's DRM ... it does."

Amazon's new DRM is reportedly uncrackable (or at least they can roll out new versions so fast the crackers have given up). It currently appears on books released after 2023-01-01, but will presumably roll back to earlier titles in due course.

The goal isn't to protect publishers/authors, but to lock buyers into Amazon's Kindle ecosystem.

"Nice library you got there, shame if you tried to go anywhere else ..."

⊥ᵒᵚ Cᵸᵎᶺᵋᶫ∸ᵒᵘ ☑️Feb 5, 2023

@angusm @elfin @paulomalley @Reea no issues logged about that on https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/issues maybe you could write one up?

GitHub - apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools: DeDRM tools for ebooks

DeDRM tools for ebooks. Contribute to apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

`Da Elf Feb 5, 2023

@angusm @paulomalley @Reea That's the truth. No DRM is uncrackable but yeah, they've got the developers to throw 10,000 monkeys at a keyboard and actually win an Asymmetric War against crackers. It's just not worth it for a handful of "us" (Proggie Consumers) to keep at it.

I've hated my Kindle since I got it [it's been on a shelf in my storage unit pushing half a decade]. I've got several 8" Android tablets [running Moon+] and I find the reading Experience better.

Vidar Hokstad / Galaxy Bound Feb 6, 2023

@angusm @elfin @paulomalley @Reea

The moment I can't make a backup copy with DRM stripped, I'll go elsewhere and/or stop buying any DRM'd books until I can strip it again. I wish more readers would do the same.

@elfin @paulomalley @Reea

Moon+ is outstanding. I wish there was an iOS version.

Lis Carey Feb 6, 2023

@elfin @paulomalley @Reea MoonPlus Reader (Pro) on Android? Interesting, thanks.

CatEyeJayne Feb 5, 2023

@paulomalley
I don't know what Calibre is. Can you please give me a link to an article to learn about this? Thank you.

Paul O'Malley Feb 5, 2023

@CatEyeJayne
Sure thing.
Calibre is a free and open-source e-book library management software. It allows you to manage your eBook collection in a way that works for you.
The software also supports plug ins to add extra functionality to it.

It also has conversion tools built in that make it easy enough to convert and send ebooks from different sources to your preferred eReader.

https://calibre-ebook.com/

calibre - E-book management

calibre: The one stop solution for all your e-book needs. Comprehensive e-book software.

Stephan Neuhaus Feb 6, 2023

@paulomalley @CatEyeJayne Can confirm. I use Calibre to manage my 2000+ volume eBook library and it works really really well.

Lis Carey Feb 6, 2023

@paulomalley @Reea How do you get the AZW version?

Paul O'Malley Feb 6, 2023

@LisCarey
You need to log into you Amazon account and head to your "Content and Devices" section. Once there you can select Books and use the drop down menu for "More Actions" and select "Download and transfer via USB".
This will download the file for you but needs to be done for each book.

Lis Carey Feb 7, 2023

@paulomalley @Reea Thank you!

Chelle (she/her) 🐸☕Feb 5, 2023

@Reea @ThePaulMcBride @monro Yup I do the same.

If I buy something, I want to OWN it, not rent it at the whims of some corporation. DRM be damned.

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride So you mean one doesn’t need to obey the terms of the license for immaterial works one gets? Does that hold for companies using FLOSS software, too, should they also be allowed to choose not to bother with what the license requires if they don’t like the terms? Interesting. #DRM #FLOSS

Randi EEA Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @ThePaulMcBride Well, at least where I reside, you have the right to own and copy for your own use what you have already paid for: https://www.digi.no/artikler/her-kan-du-lese-hele-dommen/295254 (Norwegian article, but any translation software should be able to deal with that)

Her kan du lese hele dommen

Jon Lech Johansen (19) ble mandag frikjent i Oslo tingrett for ulovlig kopiering og datakriminalitet. Les hele den enstemmige dommen her:

Digi.no

sͧb̴ͫƸ̴gͬᵉ Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride
I don’t think the sarcasm you might be attempting is coming out the way expected, given how many commercial software vendors use FLOSS and then go ”IDGAF so sue us” about the licensing.
Or perhaps that was exactly what was aimed for, and you were endorsing privateering against Amazon - then good!

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@subm3rge @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Oh, so if vendor A breaks the license conditions of work B from copyright holder C, you can break the license conditions of work E from vendor F. I see. I think there is a technical term for that line of thinking, “whataboutism”.

sͧb̴ͫƸ̴gͬᵉ Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea
@ThePaulMcBride
OK, so it wasn’t sarcasm but whataboutism you were attempting, fine, I stand corrected.
I will still hold to the point that anything any one of us can re/claim from Amazon is both justified and good.

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@subm3rge @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Now I am confused, but oh well.

Frank Bennett 🇯🇵Feb 6, 2023

@tml @subm3rge @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride I think where people are coming from on this is that the Amazon/Kindle ecosystem is both dominant and does not offer outright purchase as an option. That constitutes a deep intrusion on personal and intellectual life, and a negative reaction to it is not surprising. Amazon's market position is legal, sure enough, but abhorrent things sometimes are.

Rui Malheiro Feb 5, 2023

@tml please don't equate DRM to FLOSS. The obvious difference is in the name. Free and libre. DRM gives power to the corporate holder, FLOSS gives power to the end user.

That is why Amazon victims are now having to repurchase what they thought they already have.
What you're saying is that people need to abide by rules without challenging their moral value and that just plays into the hands of the psychopaths that couldn't care less about your moral values.

@WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride If you don’t like Amazon’s terms and conditions for their immaterial servicew, don’t purchase such from them? Buy physical books whose contents licensing is well understood since a long time.

Julia Heiler Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

"Buy physical books" does NOT WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE, because guess what, THOSE TAKE UP SPACE. Very often more space than might be available in a person's apartment / room / house. Also, for people with disabilities, they can be harder to carry or be hard to read because you can't adjust brightness, font, etc..

Bill Adler Feb 5, 2023

@AndarthaRasri @tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

I love paper books and had a large library. Sadly, I could only take a handful with me with I moved from the US to Japan.

Rui Malheiro Feb 5, 2023

@tml of course, I only buy physical books. However, this is not about me. It is about people who were already tricked by the #capitalist overlords and need to be helped in fighting back. You're entering into the mudy waters of blaming the victim.
@WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

Simon 🪗Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride really?

If I buy a tin of beans, I don't expect the shop to take it away again if I still have it in six months time.

Are you saying don't buy tins of beans?

Rui Malheiro Feb 5, 2023

@mzdt beans are not a good analogy here, at least until we have digital beans.

Then again, we might already have, as that would explain digital farts like DRM.

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

Simon 🪗Feb 5, 2023

@chromatic @tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride some people will argue with anything, for the sake of it.

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

OK bootlicker.

"Laws are inherently just and corporations are people and there's no power imbalance at all. If you don't like how things are that’s your own fault." What are you on?

A company selling ebooks "just as good as books" has implicitly contracted that they will supply said ebooks on the same sort of basis.

Bait and switch here.

Mike Rodriquez Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Hello? They CHANGED the terms. Things you BOUGHT are now unavailable unless you did the things other are talking about.

AZ DRM IS NOT EQUAL TO FOSS. Aigh!

Sparr Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Certain rights are reserved to the author (or copyright holder), such as reproducing or distributing copies or making derivative works. Those are the ones you need a license to do.
Other rights are not reserved, such as the rights to read or listen to the work, to highlight passages in your copy, or to use it for toilet paper.
Do not conflate these two sets.

Mike Rodriquez Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Tor: why are you trolling folks having a serious discussion?

John Gordon Feb 5, 2023

@Reea @ThePaulMcBride @monro

Does that remove Amazon DRM? (In the past Adobe DRM could be removed.)

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial Feb 5, 2023

@jgordon @Reea @ThePaulMcBride @monro yes, and it should work for any books published before Jan 3rd 2023.

Amazon recently updated their DRM system so there isn't yet a new method for stripping the DRM on newly released books. but luckily they don't (yet) seem to be re-DRM'ing older titles with the new DRM.

Helen Back Feb 5, 2023

@jgordon Please let me know if you find out.

Michael Feb 5, 2023

@Reea @ThePaulMcBride @monro I use Calibre to manage my comic collection too, which is substantial.