Mastodawn

Rick Monro Feb 4, 2023

Discovered during the week I was unable to access a Kindle book purchased in 2013. Reason? The order was “too old”, and refund issued to buy again. Which was pointless as the book is now more expensive than when I bought it.

Subsequently discovered 66(!!) other ebooks no longer available for download.

Currently 40 minutes in to a support chat with Amazon.

About to learn, I think, whether we purchase ebooks, or rent them…

[Edit: documenting progress in this thread https://mastodon.online/@monro/109812445178130161]

Rick Monro (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image The problem first appeared last week, when I attempted to open a book on my Kindle. The book cover appeared in my Library as normal. When I tapped on it, the following message appeared:

Mastodon

Paul McBride Feb 4, 2023

@monro oh no. I do not like the sound of that!

Rick Monro Feb 4, 2023

@ThePaulMcBride Not the most satisfying of outcomes, but at least I kinda have the books I want again (or will have 🤪)

Paul McBride Feb 4, 2023

@monro sounds like a nightmare. I have a kindle purely because it is the best e-reader hardware. I wish I could have my own copy of the books in epub format though.

Randi EEA Feb 4, 2023

@ThePaulMcBride @monro This is why i backup all my e-books using Calibre....

Chelle (she/her) 🐸☕Feb 5, 2023

@Reea @ThePaulMcBride @monro Yup I do the same.

If I buy something, I want to OWN it, not rent it at the whims of some corporation. DRM be damned.

@WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride So you mean one doesn’t need to obey the terms of the license for immaterial works one gets? Does that hold for companies using FLOSS software, too, should they also be allowed to choose not to bother with what the license requires if they don’t like the terms? Interesting. #DRM #FLOSS

Randi EEA Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @ThePaulMcBride Well, at least where I reside, you have the right to own and copy for your own use what you have already paid for: https://www.digi.no/artikler/her-kan-du-lese-hele-dommen/295254 (Norwegian article, but any translation software should be able to deal with that)

Her kan du lese hele dommen

Jon Lech Johansen (19) ble mandag frikjent i Oslo tingrett for ulovlig kopiering og datakriminalitet. Les hele den enstemmige dommen her:

Digi.no

sͧb̴ͫƸ̴gͬᵉ Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride
I don’t think the sarcasm you might be attempting is coming out the way expected, given how many commercial software vendors use FLOSS and then go ”IDGAF so sue us” about the licensing.
Or perhaps that was exactly what was aimed for, and you were endorsing privateering against Amazon - then good!

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@subm3rge @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Oh, so if vendor A breaks the license conditions of work B from copyright holder C, you can break the license conditions of work E from vendor F. I see. I think there is a technical term for that line of thinking, “whataboutism”.

sͧb̴ͫƸ̴gͬᵉ Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea
@ThePaulMcBride
OK, so it wasn’t sarcasm but whataboutism you were attempting, fine, I stand corrected.
I will still hold to the point that anything any one of us can re/claim from Amazon is both justified and good.

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@subm3rge @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Now I am confused, but oh well.

Frank Bennett 🇯🇵Feb 6, 2023

@tml @subm3rge @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride I think where people are coming from on this is that the Amazon/Kindle ecosystem is both dominant and does not offer outright purchase as an option. That constitutes a deep intrusion on personal and intellectual life, and a negative reaction to it is not surprising. Amazon's market position is legal, sure enough, but abhorrent things sometimes are.

Rui Malheiro Feb 5, 2023

@tml please don't equate DRM to FLOSS. The obvious difference is in the name. Free and libre. DRM gives power to the corporate holder, FLOSS gives power to the end user.

That is why Amazon victims are now having to repurchase what they thought they already have.
What you're saying is that people need to abide by rules without challenging their moral value and that just plays into the hands of the psychopaths that couldn't care less about your moral values.

@WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

Tor Lillqvist Feb 5, 2023

@chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride If you don’t like Amazon’s terms and conditions for their immaterial servicew, don’t purchase such from them? Buy physical books whose contents licensing is well understood since a long time.

Julia Heiler Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

"Buy physical books" does NOT WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE, because guess what, THOSE TAKE UP SPACE. Very often more space than might be available in a person's apartment / room / house. Also, for people with disabilities, they can be harder to carry or be hard to read because you can't adjust brightness, font, etc..

Bill Adler Feb 5, 2023

@AndarthaRasri @tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

I love paper books and had a large library. Sadly, I could only take a handful with me with I moved from the US to Japan.

Rui Malheiro Feb 5, 2023

@tml of course, I only buy physical books. However, this is not about me. It is about people who were already tricked by the #capitalist overlords and need to be helped in fighting back. You're entering into the mudy waters of blaming the victim.
@WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

Simon 🪗Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride really?

If I buy a tin of beans, I don't expect the shop to take it away again if I still have it in six months time.

Are you saying don't buy tins of beans?

Rui Malheiro Feb 5, 2023

@mzdt beans are not a good analogy here, at least until we have digital beans.

Then again, we might already have, as that would explain digital farts like DRM.

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

Simon 🪗Feb 5, 2023

@chromatic @tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride some people will argue with anything, for the sake of it.

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride

OK bootlicker.

"Laws are inherently just and corporations are people and there's no power imbalance at all. If you don't like how things are that’s your own fault." What are you on?

A company selling ebooks "just as good as books" has implicitly contracted that they will supply said ebooks on the same sort of basis.

Bait and switch here.

Mike Rodriquez Feb 5, 2023

@tml @chromatic @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Hello? They CHANGED the terms. Things you BOUGHT are now unavailable unless you did the things other are talking about.

AZ DRM IS NOT EQUAL TO FOSS. Aigh!

Sparr Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Certain rights are reserved to the author (or copyright holder), such as reproducing or distributing copies or making derivative works. Those are the ones you need a license to do.
Other rights are not reserved, such as the rights to read or listen to the work, to highlight passages in your copy, or to use it for toilet paper.
Do not conflate these two sets.

Mike Rodriquez Feb 5, 2023

@tml @WestCoastChelle @monro @Reea @ThePaulMcBride Tor: why are you trolling folks having a serious discussion?