Mastodawn

#UK #UK_Politics #GE #GeneralElection

Fen C Jan 24, 2023

This 👆 poll just finished - 78% not very hopeful.

And my guess is that the 78% might likely also agree that it's because the minority-elected, lower-than-vermin, scumbag #Conservatives are never going to change their spots; in fact their spots got darker and more dangerous with their lurch to the right and toward this...👇

John Caveney woke is me🛠️Jan 17, 2023

@fencoul just….

I've voted 100% given up.
If HM's 'Opposition' were just that I'd be more hopeful.

I'm hoping that Starmer's #Labour
need #SNP, #LibDems and #Greens to form a majority government.

That way we could actually get proper PR on the statute books.

stevenheywood Jan 17, 2023

@fencoul
I've given up until there's a root and branch change in the governance of England — including decentralisation from Westminster — and PR for Westminster elections, both of which I suspect are many general elections away and will probably be preceded by the break-up of the UK.

Mysturji Jan 17, 2023

@fencoul @stevenheywood
Don’t give up. Give ‘em hell.

Spectraliser Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul

Given up totally until we get a genuinely socialist Labour party or by some miracle we get rid of FPTP

Emeritus Prof Christopher May Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul Having voted 'other' I think it is necessary to continue to remind ourselves & others why we are currently experiencing this sh*tshow, even if at times feels like we're shouting into an oncoming wind

Mark Rigby Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul I know it feels hopeless, and yes, we can't do anything to change what's happening, but the need to protest and challenge every egregious act is paramount.

They rely on you being so overwhelmed by it all that you have no choice but to lie down and accept it for the sake of your own sanity.

Keep fighting.

Norman Kebell Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul #SCOTTISHINDEPENDENCE2023

alternative_be✅🖖🏻Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul I don’t live in the UK. So I boosted your poll.

Thank you 🙂

John Young Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul Fight against bad stuff. Then vote them out anyway, whenever the GE takes place. Hopefully soon.

AutisticMumTo3 Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul
Have to keep highlighting it in spite of lack of hope. It has too big an impact on vulnerable people to ignore
@fencoul

Oli Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul unless the GE somehow results in PR and another GE , not much will change
Starmer isnt a member of the trilateral commission or a knight of the realm because of his appetite for change
#Starmer

Droopy_McCool Jan 18, 2023

@OliverNoble @fencoul Very true! Despite the fact that the 2022 #Labour Conference backed a manifesto commitment to #PR, #Starmer refused to back it! As Ken Loach rightly said, Starmer has “become #Stalin - the only thing he’s learned from the #Stalinist tendency to control the machine is: disregard everything - principles, rules, law, natural justice, truth” https://youtu.be/PVP6PlX_UUA

Ken Loach absolutely DESTROYS Keir Starmer

YouTube

Fen C Jan 18, 2023

@OliverNoble

👆 Which is why I want Labour to win - but NOT with an overall majority...so that they need support from pro-#PR parties to form a government...who can then twist LAB's arm to get #PR to actually happen, and - if they backslide - can threaten to withdraw support & crash the government.

That's the only way we're getting #PR IMO...

Parami Jan 24, 2023

@fencoul @OliverNoble good luck with that 🤷🏻‍♀️

EPK Jan 24, 2023

@fencoul @OliverNoble
Unfortunately Starmer and Thornberry’s short sightedness and big mouths have ensured that up to 50 SNP seats will not be available for coalition. In trying to out-Tory the Tories with regard to Brexit, the NHS and Scottish independence that ship has now sailed.

Oli Jan 24, 2023

@EPK @fencoul agree, its totally stupid and arrogant
Funny how #Starmer is so "pragmatic" when it comes to protecting public services and human rights
But defiantly dogmatic when it comes to refusing to accomodate socialists or scots or striking workers........etc

Fen C Jan 24, 2023

@EPK @OliverNoble

👆 Fortunately all bets are off in the few days of horse-trading after a #GeneralElection.

"I'm about to let #ForceMajeure make me do things I said I'd never do."

Maybe LAB need it to look like they were forced into #PR?

(In a "make it look like an accident, Mr. Bond" style.)

@fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble Cameron promised his own party a referendum on Europe thinking in a continuing coalition the LibDems would stop him having to do it. It doesn't do to depend on things like that.

always better to actually make the argument for the change you believe in. but of course, labour doesn't believe in any damn thing.

@StrangeNoises @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble

Ach - I wil never defend Starmer, I think he's massively flawed in lots of ways but Labour is so screwed without playing the tory game. MSM are so right wing biased and jump down the parties throat, he just has to appear kinda bland? and not really radical to actually have a chance of getting in and making a change.

At the moment it's his to lose, I do hope this is all strategy and he comes out with a spine and some decent policies if he wins.

@deepblue1990 @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble all that may be true, but it affects what sort of mandate he would have after the election to do the stuff people hope (without much cause imho) he really wants to do.

@StrangeNoises @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble goes both ways though doesn't it. Could he have a massive mandate on his vanilla manifesto and feel no need to change anything? Or could he use that 1997 style to make big changes?

I do know, whatever happens we cannot have another Tory government.

@StrangeNoises @deepblue1990 @fencoul @OliverNoble

EPK Jan 24, 2023

I think if Starmer got into power it would be indistinguishable from the pre 2016 Tories under Cameron. That’s how far the middle ground has shifted.

@EPK @StrangeNoises @fencoul @OliverNoble as much as that sounds absolutely shite, I'd take that in a heart beat over what we've got now.

@deepblue1990 @EPK @fencoul @OliverNoble partly why most of my anger is actually about the refusal to do #PR - because that's basically outright saying "... and then we'll let the tories back in"

@StrangeNoises @EPK @fencoul @OliverNoble chicken and egg isn't it. Politicians of either ilk seem unable to do what's best for the country when it doesn't benefit them.. it's why I'm so "PR or death" about it because I'm done being emotionally invested in a change, when it'll get unwound again when wind changes direction 4 years later.

@deepblue1990 @EPK @fencoul @OliverNoble even that makes it sound even-handed, but actually FPTP means the tories are in power here *most of the time*. Labour's opposition to #PR is about preserving their *occasional* chances to take advantage of it, vs. probably being in a coalition of progressive parties *most of the time*.

it's infuriating. (Doubly so now that most actual labour members seem to agree)

🇳𝗮ꜟ𝖼𝘩 Jan 24, 2023

@StrangeNoises @deepblue1990 @EPK @fencoul @OliverNoble It's the same "rule over the ashes" mentality the Tories have. It's why everything is on fire.

Oli Jan 24, 2023

@StrangeNoises @deepblue1990 @EPK @fencoul that may well be the reason
Could also be that currently Starmers labour feel free to become as rightwing as they like while feeling entitled to hoover up all the votes to their left
" at least we arent the tories....GTTO etc"

If a vote for a socialist party actually counted under a PR system, people to the left wouldnt have to "hold their noses" and vote labour

Oli Jan 24, 2023

@StrangeNoises @deepblue1990 @EPK @fencoul And given Starmer is "demonstrably not a socialist" (haldane society of socialist lawyers), he is probanly very happy yo preserve the status quo and disenfranchise people on the left

@OliverNoble @StrangeNoises @EPK @fencoul I wholeheartedly agree with you I just see the absolute, immediate, catastrophic emergency to be literally anyone else except for the Tories. There has to be a change of scenery as a fundamental basis of literally anything changing.

At the moment, any vote for anything other than Labour is a vote for the Tories. They count on the left splintering. The only hope, is that Farage comes in and splits the vote on the right - that would be delicious.

@deepblue1990 @OliverNoble @EPK @fencoul with the proviso that you should please vote tactically for the best-placed anti-tory candidate on the ticket in your constituency.

@StrangeNoises @OliverNoble @EPK @fencoul of course :) blanket recommendation but that's always the case. Sometimes that's LD too, or others.

@OliverNoble @deepblue1990 @EPK @fencoul ultimately PR allows Labour - and the Conservatives - to split into their several constituent "natural" parties. separately, and in honest coalition with each other and others, they'd probably do better for their causes. but they lose the ego-boost of being one of the two "big" and "proper" parties.

@StrangeNoises @OliverNoble @EPK @fencoul and I'm all for that, after all that's what democracy is isn't it - warts and all. At least that would mean there would be some compromise, instead of constant ideologues.. we're so short term thinking as a country. Energy crisis was mostly avoidable by doing nuclear and heavy investment in green energy and insulation etc.

@StrangeNoises @OliverNoble @deepblue1990 @EPK

Fen C Jan 24, 2023

👆 ✔ @StrangeNoises

Have you seen

https://bit.ly/3IjOaNW?

A Mythical PR Party? - A guest post by Fen C, @fencoul (Twitter). - Progressive Pulse

Introduction What happened to the United Kingdom? The answer is “a lot”, and not much of it very good. What can be done to get the SS United Kingdom back on an even keel? Here’s an idea: opposition parties collaborating. “Hasn’t that already failed?” I hear you ask. “If at first, you don’t su ...

@StrangeNoises @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble PR is fundamentally essential to the future of our democracy, I don't see us as a democratic country until it's done. Constant swings between more and more extreme polarized parties is *not* it.

It's not what they want, but that's the point - it's not about them and never was.

I really hate this country at the moment, the sooner everything at least comes back to the center, fund our public services and re-join the SM.. the better.

@deepblue1990 @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble and if you put PR in your manifesto and *win*... you don't need a referendum to actually do it. because this country is proven to not have the political maturity to handle a referendum.

@StrangeNoises @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble Just doing that, with the MSM destroying them... and the Tory's beating them with a giant stick. Starmer's so scared of being controversial

@deepblue1990 @fencoul @EPK @OliverNoble thing is, we can see he's scared. and *they* can see he's scared. You're not supposed to let them see you're scared of them.

Rob Wood Jan 18, 2023

@OliverNoble @fencoul

This is exactly how I feel. Without PR we'll end up with Labour for a term or two then back to the merry-go-round of Tories being in power for ages.

Stoneface Vimes Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul more hopeful than that, but not really very much more.

AngelCage Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul

#Austerity and #Brexit have been two of the most damaging things that have happened to the UK in the last decade.

I can't see a GE reversing either of them.

Maurice Milligan Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul Sadly, I don't think a GE will stop the rot. Just change the colour of it for a while.

David_Rae Jan 18, 2023

@fencoul Tories likely to implode before latest date for GE in 2025? A ‘who runs Britain’ GE like Heath in 1974 with same results?