LAdodgersfan
Quinta Jurecicabsence of QT function makes covering news events here really difficult, fwiw
Michael Anderson@qjurecic can’t remember which one it is, but one of the 3p apps seems to allow automatic screenshooting and commenting on a post.
Avi Rappoport (avirr)@Michaelander45 @qjurecic Screenshotting should be the last resort, not the first. It doesn’t allow context, which is vital, and it doesn’t work for screenreaders unless there’s alt text added. Screenshotting is reasonable if the post comes from a notorious deleter or is so important that it needs to be preserved.
Aaron@qjurecic people (correctly!) complained about QT encouraging harassment, but it is really hard to do "let's all talk about X" without QT.
flere-imsaho 🇺🇦
@misterjayem on BlueSky@qjurecic Covering AND following.
FilmWonkManual QTs are possible (by clicking the three-dot menu and copying the link to the post), but the platform actively discourages it to avoid becoming a place of dunking.
Denis TrailinAh, yep - from an app that tracks. Mastodon definitely works better on desktop. But even with the Advanced Web View enabled, the link I posted sends me to the original post on the original server (rather than just loading in my rightmost column as other post clicks will do).
So yeah, probably something that could be made a bit smoother with minimal changes.
Brandon der Blätter@qjurecic @DenisTrailin @FilmWonk what app are you using? I’m using Metatext on iOS and it the link keeps me in Metatext
@intcreator @qjurecic @DenisTrailin
I'm using Tusky on Android, but I hadn't actually tried it until now - Tusky keeps it in the app as well; doesn't switch to my mobile browser.
2xfo@FilmWonk @intcreator @qjurecic @DenisTrailin
I'm using Tusky but clicking the link to the "QT" takes me to a browser
I'm using Tusky but clicking the link to the "QT" takes me to a browser
@FilmWonk @intcreator @qjurecic @DenisTrailin
I'm realizing this may be a difference of browser preference. I use an external browser to open Tusky links.
I'm realizing this may be a difference of browser preference. I use an external browser to open Tusky links.
Wurstsemmel 🕊🇺🇦 #SlavaUkraïniI never said it was identical to a QT, but the decision to avoid QTs was clearly a deliberate one. It makes things less convenient for journalists, granted, but so does a timeline that just shows posts in the order they were posted, and that was also clearly a deliberate design choice.
Do you have a substantive argument for why QTs should exist here?
@FilmWonk Just look around this thread for arguments?
And if I may ask - what's your argument for not having the feature?
Because QTs encourage talking past or about someone to your audience, rather than engaging with the conversation at hand.
Much like you're doing right now, even without that feature to encourage you.
I'm not making your argument for you. What do you think QTs are primarily used for on Twitter, and do you think that's a good feature or a bad one? Make your case. Or don't.
@FilmWonk Not exactly "talking past", as you will be notified. Just like you will be (maybe) if I copy all of your content and re-use it in my own toot.
There's this very basic principle in database design that if you can explicitly reference something that already exists, you do it. And then if you do that, you can make things super-comfortable for people if you let them see at first glance what the referenced content is. That is a QT. 🤷♂️
Mastodon is really bad at "embedding".
@FilmWonk This is really just about Usability. The whole point of people complaining is probably that Mastodon acts so poorly in providing inline content previews.
If whenever someone uses a toot-URL (or some other external URL) in a toot, a proper preview of the destination was shown, that is basically the same functionality which I think is missing.
It's really basic.
@FilmWonk It's about convenience, and also it can look pretty, and also it can help contextualizing or commenting on pure bullshit propaganda or disinformation (early).
See e.g. the "Truth Sandwich" concept.
If Mastodon grows, this will inavoidably be needed here as well, as everywhere else, I believe. Things may have been different in the past, but if Mastodon grows, these things will become important here as well.
I'd say with respect to previews, I agree with you. You link to a post, some preview version of that post should appear in your post.
With respect to notifying the person, I think I'm on board with forcing that to be an active rather than a passive choice.
It's the difference between the platform saying, "Someone is talking about you", which you may or may not want to be a part of, vs. "Someone is talking to you", which you can meet with a response (even if it's a mute/block).
I sympathize with Quinta's complaint above, but it's not as if journalists and commentators writ large are immune to the tendency to dunk on stories rather than add to them. They just compartmentalize. If it's their beat, they talk about it. If it's not their beat, they're just like anyone else on Twitter, offering a hot take. And hot takes don't need to create a relationship with the original author, IMO.
@FilmWonk So you're basically agreeing to my major points. And many of the other people making that same point very early on in their Mastodon experience, again and again (I also have).
Like the original author in this thread here, likely. Same reasons, I assume.
Sorry to assume you were more trolling than trying to discuss. 👍🤷♂️
I prefer a sensible argument, but Twitter (unfortunately) has kind of burned me.
But I don't think that "proper" Quote-Tooting was the reason.
@wurstsemmel Quite alright. I wasn't trolling, and there was definitely a moment there where I thought you were too :)
I'm with you that being on Twitter makes that both an easy and frequently correct assumption.
I don't think QTing is the sole cause of that sort of toxicity on Twitter, but I do tend to agree with the Mastodude that it's a nudge in that direction. Makes a few more people do it than would otherwise, and makes those so inclined able to do it more easily.
Thanks for chatting!
@FilmWonk I just believe it adds much more to the user experience than it would ever take away from the general culture.
Let me be honest: If culture ever breaks down here, it will be because of bad people - and not because of improved Usability or some very basic feature.
In terms of Usability, there is a lot to learn from (e.g.) Twitter, and folks best take that opportunity before it is lost.
Jeff Fecke@wurstsemmel @FilmWonk Agreed. People will find ways to QRT even if there's friction. If all else fails, we'll go back to the old Twitter RT @ model.
Mr Smith@FilmWonk @wurstsemmel Here’s what @Gargron had to say, back in early 2018: “I've made a deliberate choice against a quoting feature because it inevitably adds toxicity to people's behaviours. You are tempted to quote when you should be replying, and so you speak at your audience instead of with the person you are talking to. It becomes performative. Even when doing it for "good" like ridiculing awful comments, you are giving awful comments more eyeballs that way. No quote toots. Thank's”
@mrsmith @FilmWonk @Gargron But, with all due respect, "performatively", that makes no sense - because:
Lacking any kind of algorithm for timeline content selection (except for chronological sorting), ANY of that content shows up in my feed ANYWAY.
The sole difference is: Does it show up WITH or WITHOUT CONTEXT.
And all I'm saying is: I prefer it to show up WITH CONTEXT, to the maximum extent it can sensibly be retrieved and visualized.
@mrsmith @FilmWonk @Gargron Same, while we're at it, holds true for the fact that while I am writing a post here I can not just scroll up and at least review the post I am responding to. That helps in making arguments, and it's missing. It's very basic Usability. You just need that option, and it's not there.
I really like this environment (in principle), but I think that no-brainer opportunities to make things more usable obviously should be grabbed.
@mrsmith @FilmWonk @Gargron Like, if I shift my hate to a new, separate context with a Twitter-style quote-toot (for just my own bubble to see), I am more toxic than if I just spew my hatred into the comments section of the original toot author (for everyone to see)?
Not sure how that makes sense and went unchallenged. Sorry. 🤷♂️
As I have said earlier: This is really all about Usability, and how the ability to contextualize speech acts works.
@wurstsemmel @FilmWonk @Gargron
Context is good, of course, but then it raises the question of who provides that context.
If I QRT you and the context I choose to provide is “ha ha ha worst opinion ever”, then that’s not helpful particularly if I have influence on the platform? Or am I oversimplifying?
Out of curiosity, is the lack of algorithm on here so serious that you’d stop using mastodon in favour of Twitter or others? I’m not picking a fight here - I’m just curious what works for you?
@mrsmith @FilmWonk @Gargron "Haha worst opinion" just happens. That's life. NOTHING can save me from that, anywhere. Come more humans, come more bad people. Ignoring basic Communications or Usability features does not heal that. It happens in the streets you walk. It's human nature/weakness. 🤷♂️
You don't make it go away with poor UX.
As far as the algorithm is concerned: I'd like to keep my opinion out of the discussion here, please. It's a whole different story.
@wurstsemmel @[email protected]
I agree - it’s a tough world, but I’ve found a lot of positivity on here, so this is where I’m living at the moment. I call in to Twitter occasionally, and then I catch myself getting angry about something I didn’t even care about.
Then I come back to mastodon and laugh at Musk and how stupid it all is! And I’m calm again and I can talk to people who want to make the world better.
@mrsmith Completely agree. 🤷♂️
Jon Molnar 
@qjurecic Why is that? Sincere question. I don't see what difference it would make, but I'm certainly no expert.
Boosting is faster and easier and reaches the same audience. The only difference is you can't add a message.
Making your own post with a link (which results in a preview) takes only a couple more seconds and accomplishes the same thing as a QT, doesn't it?
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
Edit: I was wrong, and have been corrected. Not enough space for the correction. Read replies
Long Truong@cogspace Does linking really create a preview? I tried earlier today and it did not. https://dice.camp/@cogspace/109541963815512398
Jon Molnar 🌹 (@[email protected])
@[email protected] Why is that? Sincere question. I don't see what difference it would make, but I'm certainly no expert. Boosting is faster and easier and reaches the same audience. The only difference is you can't add a message. Making your own post with a link (which results in a preview) takes only a couple more seconds and accomplishes the same thing as a QT, doesn't it? If I'm wrong, please correct me. Edit: I was wrong, and have been corrected. Not enough space for the correction. Read replies
@cogspace Ok it does a semi-preview but only the first ~50 characters of the tweet. Not the same.
Allan Chow@grumpasaurus Main difference has to be that all tweet links direct to the same server but obviously not all mastodon links look the same.
@lxtruong I thought it did, but I guess not?
Edit: Looks like preview behavior varies from instance to instance.TIL. That seems like a bug they should fix. Whatever the intended behavior is, it should be consistent.
Katherine Derbyshire@kewms Yes, I am familiar with the architecture of the fediverse. I have set up my own instance before. I'm expressing an opinion about what those admins should do.
Although I suspect this is mostly an unintentional inconsistency rather than admins deliberately choosing to disable link previews. It's very easy to overlook enabling them.
Scott Weintraub
Mark Gilbert@jmarkgilbert I don't think so, but they can post a link or a screenshot
Ann Lipton
@annmlipton @qjurecic Very nice example indeed. 👍
Chris Dudding@qjurecic and the absence of a gif menu makes responding to posts a tad more boring.
aismallard (relocated!)
Frank Vehafric@aismallard @Dudding @qjurecic Thank you. Every day I appreciate this more. No one is just recycling rw trash so they can just dunk on them. A huge plus here.
@fvehafric @Dudding @qjurecic And with proper content tagging you can just ignore it if someone is talking about it and you're not in a good mental state to deal with that
Litzz11
joshhunt@Dudding No, I'm glad the boring giphy gifs are not here 😅
ath0@qjurecic One way is to grab the url to the post you wish to quote--assuming you're wanting to add some color--and post the url into the post. (Were I smarter, I would have included this in the first cut... https://mastodon.social/@qjurecic/109541957025119004)
@scottlink @qjurecic But that doesn't give context at first glance - which would help a lot.
And people then turn to posting a screenshot of the toot they're quoting, along with the link - to achieve a similar effect.
But that of course is just littering the eco-system, instead of just referencing the original and having the Mastodon instance return some cached preview tile of the original toot.
Don't get why people oppose this.
Mastodon instances may just need more power.