Mastodawn

Jean Harrison Dec 19, 2022

Patrick Nielsen Hayden

Absolutely stunned that people I could have sworn were sensible are lining up to endorse Post as their preferred Twitter off-ramp. Because _these_ right-wing libertarian billionaire owners will behave totally differently, you see.

It’s not remotely the same in terms of moral consequence, but it really does feel like the Iraq war, in the sense that a bunch of us are going to wind up having been 100% right about this and it will nonetheless get us absolutely zero extra credibility.

Terrence Lam Dec 19, 2022

@pnh It's disappointing to see people supporting Post as an alternative to Twitter, especially when the platform is owned by right-wing libertarian billionaires. It's important to consider the values and practices of a company and its owners when deciding which platforms to use and support. It can be frustrating to see people making choices that go against one's own values or beliefs, especially when those choices have significant consequences. #ChatGPT

Ralnik 🇺🇦🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿Dec 19, 2022

@multiset @pnh who owns post?

Rachel Dec 20, 2022

@Ralnik @multiset @pnh not sure who owns it actually, but it was funded by Marc Andreessen

Fuck Elon Musk Dec 21, 2022

@multiset @rachel_thern @Ralnik @pnh Post is run by former-Waze CEO Noam Bardin.

lauowolf Dec 19, 2022

@pnh
So very much this.

vy Dec 19, 2022

@pnh But Rumsfeld seems so competent?

Līga Dec 19, 2022

@vy @pnh just like that

Līga Dec 19, 2022

@pnh on the other hand we don't have to see 'em. Hehe

Dominique Julia Dec 19, 2022

@Liga
Can be seen everywhere anyway, with same well rehearsed lines
@pnh

Jake Kerr Dec 19, 2022

@pnh Could not agree more. A more democratic decentralized option is RIGHT THERE.

Avram Grumer 🎲Dec 19, 2022

@pnh I blame the seductive power of decent typography.

Meryem Fuat Dec 19, 2022

@pnh My impression from my key follows: tech-oriented came to Mastodon; liberal arts went to Post. It all happened on the first few weeks when Noam courted blue checks. Some had already “tried” Masto, but panicked at the choice of server. So they switched; and their blue check familiars went to Post too when they got early invitations. I have both Masto and Post. My user experience is apples and applesauce. So far, Masto for the win.

Titus Jennings Dec 19, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh I also have both - have done virtually nothing on Post, find it very US-centric, whereas Mastodon feels more "social media without borders"...in a GOOD way

Snwdrft Dec 19, 2022

@titusradio @Meryem_Fuat @pnh it’s “Live Laugh Love” social media, with training wheels. The micropayments component will keep it alive.

Meryem Fuat Dec 19, 2022

@Snwdrft @titusradio @pnh I hope so. I am willing to pay for the service; but I wonder if it’s possible that profit driven ventures can co-opt significant parts of the #Fediverse.

Catherine is not complacent Dec 19, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh I am absolutely not tech savvy but I read a lot before I chose and this seemed like a better fit for me.

Meryem Fuat Dec 19, 2022

@CatDragon @pnh I’m also not tech savvy (too long out of the field); but I understand the concepts once I slow down and read. I got lucky. I had joined the original German instance (because strict German laws), but I was a little lost. Then two of my “liberal arts” bird app follows partnered with two techies to make an instance for their followers. I switched instances and I’m now very comfortable.

Catherine is not complacent Dec 19, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh I’m embarrassed to admit that I looked a bit and chose by name. I’m calling it the “select a wine by the label and hope for the best” method.

Meryem Fuat Dec 19, 2022

@pnh @CatDragon For me, the main thing is the rules. I don’t want any nazis or other fascists, white supremacists and other racists, homophobes, anti-Semites and Islamophobes, misogynists, magats, incel trolls, or any other variety of bigot or deplorable in my feed. So, I wanted server admins who support my worldview, even though I know I can block and report accounts and instances from coming on my feed.

Catherine is not complacent Dec 19, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh oh I wasn’t clear, that’s how I picked the server. But yes to what you said.

Anarko Trafikante Dec 19, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh I very much come from the liberal arts, but its due to that I chose Mastodon. Having a decentralised network of autonomous self-owned servers, gives way to building autonomous counter-hegemonic institutions within cyberspace, which is crucial in order to fight in the hegemonic struggle against capitalism. Post is part of the capitalist hegemony and as such must be avoided.

AnneCollier Dec 20, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh Ok, maybe I'll get on Post too and see for myself if it's applesauce. ;)

Debbie Wade Dec 20, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh I have POST and Mastodon also and I too prefer being here.

robertburke Dec 20, 2022

@Meryem_Fuat @pnh

Reports are complaint that Post is a disaster. They are being abused and harrased.

Vicki Kyriakakis Dec 19, 2022

@pnh @WTL I don’t understand it myself. I’ve tried it and it’s so much less engaging than Mastodon. I’m not sure what the allure is other than that it allows those chasing clout to replicate that experience there.

Sunny Willow 🌞Dec 19, 2022

@VickiKyriakakis @pnh @WTL

That's exactly it.

Shriram Krishnamurthi Dec 19, 2022

@VickiKyriakakis @pnh @WTL Genuine question: what is it about Post that makes it more about "chasing clout" than Mastodon? Thanks.

Vicki Kyriakakis Dec 19, 2022

@shriramk @pnh @WTL It seems far more centralised and people have tended to flock to the big name accounts rather than connecting across the platform. I don’t see people responding as readily with others there outside of those big names. There’s also a ‘tipping’ mechanism that I don’t entirely understand but seems to be there to reward content/tweets. That to me incentivises clout chasing. It’s more directly trying to replicate Twitter.

Shriram Krishnamurthi Dec 20, 2022

@VickiKyriakakis @pnh @WTL Thanks for the response.

The Brave browser has actually been trying to add tipping to Twitter forever, adding a tip option to each tweet that it would presumably manage through its Brave Tokens.

I think for Post it's how they want to get newspapers to show up? Instead of having a subscription, you can make a micro-ish payment for an individual article — basically, one of the Web dreams from 1995, realized. That would attract media/journalists.

Strypey Feb 8, 2023

@shriramk
> one of the Web dreams from 1995, realized.

Minds.com and plenty of other platforms have been trying to do this with cryptotokens for years. Once again, I'm reminded of Clay Shirky's economic arguments - made way back then and since - for why micropayments systems never work. It's amazing how often this square wheel gets reinvented, with no analysis of its history of consistent failure.

@VickiKyriakakis @pnh @WTL

NightCatArts Dec 19, 2022

@pnh See also: Brexit.

🇺🇦🇺🇦 Walter White 🇺🇸🇨🇦Dec 19, 2022

@pnh When I read that it wasn't even a completed platform and there was ZERO reporting or Moderation. HARD PASS.

That was enough for me to say nope.

The other stuff I hadn't even got to.

Darby Lines Dec 20, 2022

@Robicheau_John @pnh But Micro-transactions will finally allow me to monetize my collection of slightly warmed-over Matt Yglesias takes!

eyrea 🇨🇦Dec 19, 2022

@pnh I got on the waiting list for Post, got an account, and the first thing that struck me were the micro-payments. That was a hard no for me. Glad I was already on Mastodon.

I do not understand people saying signing up for Mastodon is difficult but are okay with a site with micropayments.

emurphy42 Dec 19, 2022

@eyrea @pnh Probably because picking a Masto instance is something you *have* to do - and from what I vaguely recall, the UI for picking one instinctively feels limited, like pre-Google search engines - whereas micropayments are (a) opt-in and (b) don't carry that sense of a monthly fee being largely wasted if you end up not reading more of their stuff that month.

I plan to revisit aforementioned UI later today and form some more coherent thoughts about it.

eyrea 🇨🇦Dec 19, 2022

@emurphy42 @pnh Fair, but I do wish people would stop acting like choosing a Mastodon instance is like swearing fealty to a monarch. I mean, you can change your mind and migrate (I did).

@pnh I signed up for Post out of curiosity.

Currently, it's nice. It's a very nice place. It does however give of a "Sandford - Village of the Year" vibe. And I do not trust the Neighbourhood Watch Alliance.

George Barwood Dec 19, 2022

@pnh I have asked people to explain why they prefer Post to Mastodon, and haven't yet got any answer ( let alone a reasonable answer ).

Erin Reed Dec 19, 2022

@george_barwood @pnh post is planning on having text string searches which is a big draw for me

Brklynmind Dec 20, 2022

@ErinInTheMorn lack of search is a major downside to Mastodon

Jürgen Hubert Dec 19, 2022

@pnh First Google+, then Twitter.

I don't want to be fooled a third time

David Fleetwood Dec 19, 2022

@pnh And one of them, Marc Andreessen, is also a backer of Musk's Twitter takeover and has provided much of his management team.

This almost looks coordinated to me, create an offramp for those who leave, but control that too. If successful, watch them merge in a couple years.

Sunny Willow 🌞Dec 19, 2022

I've seen a few posts about Marc Andreessen on there with a few if any comments on it. They are just ignoring that he's the $ man.

I post about Mastodon on there and am probably pissing people off.

The only thing I like about Post are the photos. There are some photographers, mostly from Japan, that I follow and their pics are amazing.

Alexander Karn Dec 19, 2022

@pnh Venture capital will always put profits ahead of reliable info vetting, which is why healthy public discourse is doomed until/unless we wrest our social networks away from that clique.

Respected Commander Dec 19, 2022

@pnh I got a Post invite a week ago and i'm gonna sit on it. I think I'm gonna settle on Masto for now.

Oblomov Dec 19, 2022

@pnh my understanding (from never even visiting the website and only looking at who is going there and why they endorse it) is that Post does something very well that Mastodon sucks at: stoking people's ego. The antiviral design of the network is anathema for those that live for “the numbers” and for being different from the riff-raff of commenters, whose only purpose in life must obviously be to pump up the value of THEIR posts.

H/T @KevinMarks

Oblomov Dec 19, 2022

@pnh @KevinMarks

(Note: my assessment might be biased from having just been blocked here on Mastodon for “picking up a fight” after pointing out that an argument in favor of quote toots was basically an endorsement of narcissistic takeover of others' credit.)

Kevin Marks Dec 19, 2022

@oblomov @pnh the quote toots discourse is very weird for me, as you can link to other toots just like you can link to anything else, thereby forking the conversation from the original toot to your own followers. This is called 'linking on the web' and something we all have done for 25 years.
The only missing things are 1) a button to do this while reading and 2) notification and collation that this has happened to the original toot.

Oblomov Dec 19, 2022

@KevinMarks @pnh
Some people also miss that the inlining of the content of the original toot, requiring a “context switch” to read it. I tried to argue that this is a way to improve active interaction and reduce doomscrolling, but apparently some people don't like to be told that 8-P

Kevin Marks Dec 19, 2022

@oblomov @pnh that kinda works, though the link previewing being delayed and done by the viewing instance rather than the posting one makes it a bit hit and miss. For example, here's a list of pro-quoting arguments, that are actually pro-linking arguments - do you get an inline preview? https://hachyderm.io/@dalias/109355822005012040

Rich Felker (@[email protected])

OK, here it goes. Why quote-posting is a critical positive feature we need to get on this platform. A 🧵 of uses (I'll start; feel free to add)

Hachyderm.io

Oblomov Dec 19, 2022

@KevinMarks @pnh

I personally don't, but that's just because that's the person that blocked me for “picking up a fight”.

Jari Pennanen Dec 19, 2022

@pnh I like your tone here, I get the same feeling and it's coming from a split in understanding.

Those who have successfully migrated to #Mastodon, just can't anymore understand those who are staying in the bird site or migrating to Post.News

This only grows more apparent as Mastodon migration continues, as more people begin to understand the concept.

#TwitterMigration #Mastodon #PostNews

Paul Chambers🚧Dec 19, 2022

Over the weekend, several national news outlets published guides and articles about Mastodon, in prominent placement, and some named it as the preferred Twitter-exit.

Last time I saw something like that was when the media did MySpace exit to Facebook.

Jari Pennanen Dec 19, 2022

@paul @pnh I guess it's cool, but I still think #Mastodon is missing a good client and onboarding for the masses.

At the moment, this works for enthusiasts and tech people, who care to go through hoops and test clients. I for one am totally fine if it remains a niche for tech people.

In fact, it would be a feature for me if all journalists chasing daily headlines would go to "Post.News".

Paul Chambers🚧Dec 19, 2022

I think the worse thing is the dash for clients since they aren't needed because Mastodon is a PWA (Progressive Web Apps) that is installable to a mobile device directly via their browser to their phone with all the features you get from the desktop browser like edit, notifications, etc. No extra software or downloads.

In Android, it can be installed from any web browser but on iOS you have to go to your instance in Safari to install. It's a failure that this isn't known day 1.

Jari Pennanen Dec 19, 2022

@paul @pnh other clients are PWAs too:

1. Pinafore https://pinafore.social/

2. Sengi https://nicolasconstant.github.io/sengi/#

They aren't just very good, they have obvious flaws like this official web client that makes using them cumbersome for the masses.

Home · Pinafore

An alternative web client for Mastodon, focused on speed and simplicity.

Alistair Davidson Dec 19, 2022

@pnh simple question: how is post going to make money? VC funding means you can loss-lead with a great experience. Then down the line, in come the ads, the spying, the engagement algorithms.

Cassandrich Dec 19, 2022

@moh_kohn @pnh It's not supposed to make money. It's billionaires spending money to pull the press away from direct sources and democratized information. Same thing Elon spent his^H^H^Hmr bonesaw's money on, but less idiotic execution.

Cassandrich Dec 20, 2022

@moh_kohn @pnh OMG I didn't even realize this writing it, but... Mr. BoneSaw actually matches his initials.

Dominique Julia Dec 19, 2022

@pnh
The landlord promised they would have it served on a platter, just take a seat, you are my VIP customers.
Some waltzed in here, tooted "oh, boring, why no one clapping". Never trumpers, ok expected, the "progressives", f**cking joke. We're talking about ppl who can actually pay someone to set up account, explain the landscape... But chose to spend hours on Trump's NFTs instead.