ReikagalDec 13, 2022
Ken White

I've gotten a lot of responses to that Substack piece about leaving Twitter. Many are positive but some are negative. A few are saying "oh so you think free speech is nasty?"

What kind of stupid question is that? Of course I do. The Nazis marching at Skokie were nasty. All sorts of speech is nasty. Supporting free speech doesn't mean reserving judgment about it, you imbecile. It means not using the state to suppress it.

Dec 12, 2022 at 11:33pmWeb
Show threadDopeGhotiDec 12, 2022
@Popehat Also part of free speech is the ability to not speak in places where you don't wish to.
Show threadE. ChangDec 12, 2022
@DopeGhoti @Popehat And to not be a captive audience anywhere you don't wish to be.
Show threadJohn MinnihanDec 12, 2022
@Popehat
I hate Illinois nazis
Show threadzeruchDec 13, 2022
@jbminn @Popehat they are horrible in every place that isn't Illinois too.
Show threadJohn MinnihanDec 13, 2022
@zeruch @Popehat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLLru1_f3rc&ab_channel=HankMegens
blues brothers: I hate Illinois Nazi's

YouTube
Show threadzeruchDec 13, 2022
@jbminn @Popehat as many times as I've seen that flic and missed the reference. Damn. I'm slippin'
Show threadDeirdre Saoirse MoenDec 13, 2022

@zeruch @jbminn @Popehat I was paid to see Cab Calloway sing Minnie the Moocher. ;)

(Extra.)

Show threadAnd Another DayDec 13, 2022
@jbminn @zeruch @Popehat
The correct response..esp in relation to Skokie!
Show threadRev RobinDec 13, 2022
@jbminn @Popehat The only correct thought when the Nazis at Skokie are brought up. 😂
Show threadMartha HowellDec 13, 2022

@jbminn @Popehat

I saw that movie in one of the first showings in Chicago and the crowd burst into cheers at that line.

Show threadArclightDec 13, 2022
@jbminn @Popehat "Fix the cigarette lighter."
Show threadJonathanDec 12, 2022
@Popehat I think the concept of "free speech" is one of the most misunderstood concepts in our society.
Show threadKyozouDec 13, 2022
@jwslug @Popehat *deliberately* misunderstood
Show threadDiogo ConstantinoDec 13, 2022
@jwslug @Popehat wait until anericans find out that at least many european countries believe it's not only about the state control of speach, but everyone depending on how.
Show threadCsaba GálffyDec 13, 2022
@jwslug @Popehat and it's a very deliberately crafted misunderstanding. Like the misreading of the 2nd amendment.
Show threadAlan (he/him)Dec 13, 2022
@jwslug @Popehat Agreed. Most of the time when people like that blather on about "free speech" what they really mean is "consequence-free speech" IE the ability to say whatever nasty or stupid shit they want to say and then pretend they didn't say it, or get touchy when people react negatively to what they said.
Show threadJonathanDec 13, 2022

@drwex @Popehat
Yep, or, to put it another way:

You can say what you want without getting arrested.

1) I don't have to listen to you.

2) I don't have to let you say it in my home or place of business

Show threadQuiltyDawnDec 13, 2022
@drwex @jwslug @Popehat just to add--they also want you to be forced to listen to them. "I can say what I want, you HAVE to listen to me, and I shouldn't suffer any social or personal consequences for saying it."
Show threadLiam DennehyDec 14, 2022
@jwslug @Popehat Often deliberately so
Show threadEric Neustadter (e)Dec 12, 2022
@Popehat I've missed you since abandoning the other place. Glad to see you posting here.
Show threadMatt ForbeckDec 13, 2022
@thevowel @Popehat Same here!
Show threadDianne HackbornDec 13, 2022
@thevowel Yeah @Popehat is one of the last people I've been feeling the lack of. The main thing now I miss is the good material on Ukraine.
Show threadftjlDec 13, 2022

@hackbod @thevowel @Popehat

@uanews is a bot that reposts news (very useful for just getting a stream of information)

I'm still hopeful that Julia Davis (of Russian Media Monitor) will move to Mastodon.

Show threadSnwdrftDec 13, 2022
@hackbod @thevowel recommend @CedricMas and @noelreports for daily Ukraine updates
Show threadGenXDec 13, 2022
@hackbod @thevowel https://mastodon.online/@SocraticEthics@[email protected]
Mastodon

A newer server operated by the Mastodon gGmbH non-profit

Mastodon hosted on mastodon.online
Show threadCocoonDec 13, 2022

@hackbod @thevowel @Popehat

Try below even better Ukraine news updates than I had on twitter
@ukrdef

Show threadRonanDec 13, 2022
@hackbod @thevowel @Popehat try this account: @SocraticEthics
Show threadarcofjusticeDec 13, 2022
@thevowel @Popehat likewise. Good to see you.
Show threadESteinNYCDec 13, 2022
@thevowel @Popehat likewise!
Show threadSapphic HazardDec 12, 2022
@Popehat The entertaining part of that is that some people are still gullible enough to believe that Musk cares a lick about free speech other than his own.
Show threadYorgus (Old white Guy)Dec 13, 2022
@sapphichazard @Popehat BINGO! You win the InterWebs for today.
Show threadJF_SebastianDec 12, 2022
@Popehat Welcome, I’m really glad you are here. I enjoy your podcast with Josh, very insightful.
Show threadchristian holtDec 12, 2022
@Popehat Thank you for writing that - you articulated better than I could the difference between “I’m going to stop posting but check in once in a while and monitor the site” and “It was fun, but I reject what that site is now and don’t want to be associated with it”.
It’s impressive, and maybe a little scary, that the site became so prevalent that some people are unwilling to delete their old posts there. I don’t remember this phenomenon on earlier community sites when they fell out of favor.
Show threadKyozouDec 13, 2022
@Popehat @christianholt The continued allegiance to the Catholic Church by people who profess to care about children (esp sexual abuse) is somewhat analogous.
Show threadDr. Russell PierceDec 13, 2022
@christianholt @Popehat I'm thinking of Digg and Slashdot... where else? Maybe in the other cases people didn't have as much of a professional identity wrapped up in the site?
Show threadchristian holtDec 13, 2022
@russellpierce @Popehat I feel like earlier sites were more compartmentalized - twitter really sort of broke the wall of engaging with the public and blurred the line between online persona and real life in the same way AOL brought email and chat rooms to the masses.
For me: IRC, Usenet, Listservs, Slashdot, Plastic, Metafilter, Digg, some vBulletin sites, Reddit, to name a few. Slashdot and Plastic were based on karma/reputation and used moderation/metamoderation too.
Show threadSeanDec 13, 2022
@christianholt @russellpierce @Popehat I miss Plastic.
Show threadTom MichelineDec 12, 2022
@Popehat SO happy you are here.
Show threadr00tdeniedDec 12, 2022

@Popehat The people using the 'you must hate free speech' nonsense are part of the problem. No one leaving Twitter hates free speech, we hate the lack of content moderation and the sheer viciousness of right wing trolls that have been emboldened.

Musk himself said that freedom of speech is different from freedom of reach, but so far that seems to have merely been a mealy-mouthed excuse in the face of fleeing advertisers which was entirely an empty platitude.

Show threadLassielmrDec 13, 2022
@r00tdenied @Popehat exactly that. Twitter has become a binfire of bots and trolls who are stirring up hatred.
Show threadr00tdeniedDec 13, 2022
@lassielmr @Popehat and its going to be even worse now that the trust & safety council is disbanded.
Show threadAlexDec 13, 2022
@r00tdenied @Popehat Twitter seemingly giving right wing journalists essentially free reign to the back end of twitter was the last straw for me.
Show threadEric WilsonDec 12, 2022
@Popehat I'm just glad to see you here! I deleted my Twitter account before the sale closed and I'm happy I can follow you again.
Show threadPeoriaBummerDec 12, 2022
@Popehat glad you’re here, Ken. Your perspective and analysis have been incredibly valuable to me.
Show threadAaron Ross Powell ☸️Dec 12, 2022
@Popehat When I was at Cato, if I publicly criticized reactionary right wing preference or social behavior, I'd frequently hear from internet libertarians that, "As a libertarian, you should only discuss what the state should or shouldn't do, and not take moral positions on issues unrelated to state action," and it was tremendously stupid. But there are weirdos who think that way—usually because they don't want such criticisms directed at their own reactionary preferences.
Show threadMark GardnerDec 13, 2022
@arossp @Popehat The lack of a moral stance (and thus acceptance of anyone’s moral code) is precisely why libertarians fail again and again
Show threadLeroy the ThirdDec 12, 2022
@Popehat It's good to have you back.
Show threadBakersRelayDec 12, 2022
@Popehat Indeed.
Show threadZhi ZhuDec 12, 2022

@Popehat

"The right to free speech means the govt can't arrest you for what you say.

It doesn't mean that anyone else has to listen to your bullshit,

or host you while you share it.

The 1st Amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences."

#FreeSpeech from #xkcd

#FirstAmendment #Comic

Show threadTofu GolemDec 13, 2022

@ZhiZhu @Popehat
I cannot recommend Xkcd enough.

PS — the name is not an acronym. It's the most unpronounceable word the cartoonist could think of.

Show threadsotsogmDec 13, 2022

@ZhiZhu @Popehat indeed, those who confuse freedom of speech with freedom from consequences seem to overlook the fact that one of the core arguments for freedom of speech is to create opportunities to scrutinize and *reject* bad ideas.

You foster discussion and debate in order to determine which ideas should be promoted and developed and which ideas ought to be consigned to history's dustbin. There's not much point to free speech otherwise.

Show threadsotsogmDec 13, 2022

@ZhiZhu @Popehat if free speech is about the proverbial "marketplace of ideas," one of the things that happens in a marketplace is that consumers are free to decline to purchase--or even to boycott--products deemed inferior or offensive.

Some people seem to feel entitled to have their ideas consumed regardless of quality or demand.

Show threadEd... should be in bed.Dec 13, 2022
@ZhiZhu
Classic.
@Popehat @stellarskylark
Show threadDCDec 16, 2022
@ZhiZhu Also doesn't mean you can't protest against hate speech, etc.
Show threadInterpipes 💙Dec 12, 2022
@Popehat have you ever come across any reason - other than stupidity or bad faith - for people being 'confused' between freedom of speech (from government interference) and.. I guess freedom from consequences (from literally everyone/everywhere else)?
Show threadDennis JernbergDec 13, 2022
@interpipes @Popehat I'd say money. Definitely way too much money. Elon, remember, was born rich.
Show threadRicardo HarvinDec 13, 2022

@interpipes @Popehat white supremacy.

That's the only reason I've come across.

Show threadIt's A Me, Bori'ODec 12, 2022
@Popehat Glad to see you use Mastondon, Mr. Hat.
Show threadmmurdochDec 12, 2022
@Popehat ken fix0rd teh server! And... Fascists/racists who are obsessed with overturning elections can run their mouth, and they can buy twitter too, but they can all rot in hell together. I don't want the slightest benefit to come to them. People who are not nazis need to get off tw now.