It's so obviously two kids in a trenchcoat.
@gekitsu @Viss @vlvtelvis @jwz @alexwinter
Or trying to draft behind him
@Viss @jwz @alexwinter yeah, and they're going to use VC money to buy ads to get users who won't do any of that. A key question I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to: Who's running the user acquisition program for the fediverse and what's their budget?
More questions: Did the LAMP stack win without any coordination among OS tech developers, solely on the basis of independent server admins making independent choices?
What org can champion the fediverse as a whole?
@williamgunn Uh, I am not sure the LAMP stack "won" anything?
I ran WIMP (Windows IIS MySQL PHP) at one employer.
@bifrosty2k showed me the wisdom of FAPP (FreeBSD Apache PostgreSQL PHP).
Presumably ONSP (OpenBSD NGINX SQLite PHP) is also viable?
As well as other permutations.
No org *needs* to champion the FediVerse as a whole.
That there are *already* multiple implementations of ActivityPub, is a sign of good health!
Also see: DNS.
@williamgunn Yeah, I think this is super-interesting - What's the right way to build a coordinated effort? Unfortunately I don't think the rise of LAMP gives us many lessons here.
I'm trying to think of big open source efforts focused on UX-y things, and came up with, uh, GNOME and KDE. There *must* be some much better way of looking at this! If we're looking for historical precedents, maybe something very different?
I know a good number of Masto admins and moderators follow me here, as we get Fastlyâs Fast Forward program up & running (designed to support open source & the good internet), what would you ideally like to see as support for the fediverse from Fastly? CDN services, the edge compute platform, security protection, etc.? https://www.fastly.com/fast-forward
I agree with not supporting any service that won't interconnect or work with browsers.
But, let's not forget that the majority of twitter users were on mobile.
In many parts of the world, mobile *is* the internet.
Mobile only users tend to be younger, less wealthy, less likely to be white, and more likely to from outside the US.
The flipside is don't skimp on mobile. It's essential.
I did a poll and users here lean more to desktop than twitter. It's a huge factor in many issues.
@futurebird @jwz I think having a lot of mobile-only users is an even *better* reason to insist on web supportâso people don't even have to download an app if they don't want to.
SMS support (like Twitter used to have) might also be nice.
I don't think a mobile browser experience stands a chance against a quality app in terms of UI. You can do limited things to improve the interface, but it's easier to just support good app(s)
It's good that with a protocol you have options, and the ability to share things as links in texts, emails, other apps.
I haven't checked recently what percentage of people using the internet are still on flip phones. Checking quickly nearly everyone on android is on pie or better with most on android 11 or 12.
@futurebird @funcrunch This is 7 years old but it hasnât changed too much - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/04/15/cell-phones-in-africa-communication-lifeline/
The further you get from major cities, the less fancy ass the phones. People need things that last days on a charge and the best solution for that remains ye olde dumbphone.
Twitter dropping sms was a move I understand for security but it gentrified.
In a few short years, the proliferation of mobile phone networks has transformed communications in sub-Saharan Africa. It has also allowed Africans to skip the landline stage of development and jump right to the digital age.
7 years is a long time.
@futurebird Having sites work well on mobile is obviously an important goal.
But while there are people in the world who don't understand that "the Web" and "Facebook" are different things... those people are wrong, deceived, and behaving against their own self interest. That misconception should not be encouraged.
I think this is less an education issue about understand what is and isn't the web and more of a "many people aren't rich enough to have a desktop computer and high speed home internet service AND maintain a cellphone so they pick one." Guess which one?
@chrisale @futurebird A bunch of you keep trying to interpret what I said -- don't use apps that are not a part of the WWW, that is, apps that are actively hostile to the open, interoperable internet -- as "phones are bad, use desktop computers, be rich".
And I don't know what I can do to help you with that.
A good web interface can be as good as an app, for 90% of the use cases.
However, I don't see why "mobile" should equate to "app store only". Mobile has web browsers and they are fine.
It is strange. And I keep saying it's probably playing a role in the way that the user base is growing and skewing. Such that MORE care and attention needs to go to the mobile experience. It's just not translating as well.
Here is my poll. It's not exactly a sensitive question so I don't think it could be that far off, but I will run it again with a call to send it far and wide if you think that might help:
Are you typing on a laptop? A big desktop computer? I suspect that more users who have migrated thus far have leaned towards greater desktop computer use. Back at twitter we were a tiny minority. We need to think about the UI and ease of use experience for users who ONLY have cellphones for internet. Can you sign up via app alone? What is that like? [ ] I mostly use desktop/laptop [ ] I mostly use mobile [ ] It's within a margin of error of an even split. [ ] see poll results and don't want to vote
@futurebird I will post some links with different accounts and ask people I know who had posts go kind of viral here for their analytics data. I am always a bit careful with polls. Polls are often answered by very specific kind of people. Which can change the outcome by a lot.
Letâs see what I will find.
@bitboxer Looking forward to this, though it looks like the new poll is closer to the more typical numbers-- although still 40% are using the desktop significantly 20% of that exclusively which seems higher than normal to me.
(I'd love to compare to the hard data. )
Here is the new poll which I tried to make more neutral (and changed the order of the options) Hopefully it will get more responses... but I don't really expect it to be very different (let's see!)
Hi. It would help me a lot if I could get a HEAP of responses to this poll. The goal is to get a decent enough sample so results are predictive of the wider user-base right now. I dislike asking for boots but this is SCIENCE... or something. (Thanks.) How do you use Mastodon MOST of the time? On a phone, or other touch screen device? OR On a device with a keyboard like a laptop or desktop computer? (If it's half and half choose the middle option.) [ ] I mostly use mobile/tablet [ ] It's within a margin of error of an even split [ ] I mostly use desktop/laptop [ ] don't want to vote, but want to see poll results
By the way, the comments on the new poll, and there are a LOT had many users talking about how great the desktop is and how frustrating the app is...
which goes back to the big thesis here: the app needs more love.
Really we need to raise money for and hire a designer and programer for like a whole year each and have them do nothing else.
So like at least 150k and that's being stingy. #mastodonSuggestions #ui
Just spit balling here, but the app would need to have accessibility features baked-in that would render it more attractive than desktop in those regards. Script-less, text-only, pictures behind a link, adjustable text size and color schemes, an easy way of blocking terms and phrases, etc--
And perhaps even Modmin stuff relating to server and instance management, based on permissions.
Would need to be able to run the app through a briar patch like tor, without compromising the user.
Finally, would also like to see a way to integrate discord servers with fediservers, shared Modmin rights, etc.
150k is rookie numbers. Let's get a GoFundMe or similar going. We will need a disabilities liaison. We will need a BIPOC liaison. We're talking at least 400k. Probably 575.
@futurebird @corvusbrimstone @jwz @bitboxer I will say that I really wish more apps would emulate Metatextâs alt-text handling. Thereâs a visible flag on uncaptioned images and the built-in text-extractor is great.
(I also appreciate that the default visibility for new posts is followers-only instead of public. )
Interesting - I started using mastodon mostly on mobile, as I was on extended parental leave. Definitely there are a few "just download a csv file" interactions! But most things worked OK.
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