phytolipideNov 27, 2022
Jelani Cobb

“To the extent that people remain active on Twitter, they preserve the viability of Musk’s gambit. The illusory sense of community that still lingers on the platform is one of Musk’s most significant assets. No matter which side prevails, the true victor in any war is the person selling weapons to both sides.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-i-quit-elon-musks-twitter

Why I Quit Elon Musk’s Twitter

Jelani Cobb writes about his recent decision to quit Elon Musk’s Twitter, a social-media platform that once represented the new frontier of digital democracy.

The New Yorker
Nov 27, 2022 at 12:58pmWeb
Show threadClaes de Vreese ☑️Nov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @Chanders I think this will be a core issue in the coming weeks. The migration is happening. The first transaction costs were met by many. But going full in and leaving twitter feels like a risk and potentially a real loss to many who spent time building a community. The long game is the real challenge.
Show threadJelani CobbNov 27, 2022
@claesdevreese @Chanders Yeah but it’s like a rental community. The emotional attachment to the place may be significant but you’re really subject to the prerogatives of the landlord. In this case the new landlord is a real genital. Eventually the place will get so run down you’ll have to move on.
Show threadedgeoforever 🍎Nov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders from personal experience, the emotional attachment requires a little time to fade away. Months with Facebook, weeks with twitter. I feel I am halfway there.
Show threadBathsheba BlueNov 27, 2022

@edgeoforever @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders

Same here. It helps to see it as a process.

Show threadChris O’keefeNov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @edgeoforever @Chanders it’s a few days for Twitter since is Mastodon so good.
Show threadchukwumaonyeijeNov 27, 2022

@edgeoforever @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders

Agree with everything said. Frankly, I moved away from FB on Jan 7th, 2021. It was NOT as difficult as I thought it was.

Likewise with Twitter. In the end it took me on Tweet to convince me the "community" I had built there was not worth my personal #selfcare

Show threadJelani CobbNov 28, 2022

@chukwumaonyeije @edgeoforever @claesdevreese @Chanders

Yeah, I dropped Fb after the Cambridge Analytica story broke.

Show threadedgeoforever 🍎Nov 28, 2022
@Jelaniya @chukwumaonyeije @claesdevreese @Chanders Me too!
Show threadamazingprizziniNov 28, 2022
@edgeoforever @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders they even give you the 30 days before your account can’t be re-activated. Make it those 30 days, and that’s that
Show threadMT NickersonDec 2, 2022
@edgeoforever @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders I barely use Facebook (after deleting my mother and aunt) and I barely notice.
Show threadElle SmithNov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders I follow, communicate with, and donate to small nonprofits in places other than the US (my home), as well as brave isolated people who help others or who need help themselves. These communities will be the real losers: some of them use Twitter to survive. It’s difficult to leave them and to watch them lose an urgently source of money. I’m not disputing that Twitter is done, but it’s easy for some of us to move on.
Show threadElle SmithNov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders meant to say not easy
Show threadProkofyNov 27, 2022
@ElleSmith @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders That's a very good point, the *utility* part is half functioning even if the social ambience part is now so awful. The war in Ukraine is not covered here, but there, and on Facebook and Telegram. A few accounts including UA gov spokes people and OSINT are here, but people fighting a war (and for us all) can't be expected to be jiggering with balky interfaces and problems moving lists and herding cats. That will be one big test, if Ukraine moves here
Show threadC.D. LewisNov 27, 2022
@prokofy @ElleSmith @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders I’ve already found some folks covering #Ukraine here. I’m hopeful more will arrive. One thing I’ve discovered is that when I search the hashtags of towns where I want news I don’t primarily find paid bot accounts repeating Kremlin propaganda excusing or promoting war crimes.
Show threadOldandCrankyNov 27, 2022
@ElleSmith @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders good point! I’m so conflicted.
Show threadSunRainSunNov 27, 2022
@ElleSmith @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders it’s true. I follow a lot of accounts like that. Also I still think there needs to be voices against what is happened. Just like when trump was first elected. Twitter was a mess lots of neo Nazis etc. a lot of us kept speaking truth to power. I’m def conflicted. Met so many amazing people there. Lots are not going to come here sadly
Show threadMelzpetpalsNov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @ElleSmith @Chanders I agree with you on the charity orgs. It is definitely going to hurt them.
Show threadBart GrahamNov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders Great analogy. It does feel like #ElonMusk is intentionally becoming a #slumlord while at the same time raising the rent.
Show threadProkofyNov 27, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders And if it doesn't fall apart? We need a game plan for if it succeeds, grows, and many ordinary people now find it easier or better to use without the crabby, vindictive, identity-driven left on it, you know? I would be careful how you play this. Of course if you want it to be part of a growing civil war, understood, just be clear about where the front line is and whose lives will be sacrificed.
Show threadRobinNov 27, 2022
@prokofy @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders it’s owned by Musk and priced out of anyone else ever taking over. His intentions are very very clear
Show threadProkofyNov 27, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders The question is whether he deliberately breaks it utterly so that it is entirely destroyed as an organizer around everything from unions to the war in Ukraine - but useless even to follow Eurovision or NYC subway stalls while AI takes over -- or instead to bang it to shake out the leftists along with the bots and use it as a political organizing tool for the GOP to prevail. EG define break and takeover. His intentions are manifest yet not known.
Show threadRobinNov 27, 2022

@prokofy @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders any scenario envisioned includes the owner of that platform tweeting to millions on the eve of the US midterms to vote Republican because “balance.”

Bottom line: I understood I needed to get out once I realized the voices were coming from inside the house. He intentionally and knowingly amplifies Nazi rhetoric

Show threadRobinNov 27, 2022

@prokofy @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders BTW, this is the moment when I left:

“Kara Swisher pointed out on her podcast, Musk was potentially the one person who could solve Twitter’s long-term profitability problem... (Swisher, to her credit, later pointed out where Musk went astray, taking particular note of his tweet, which she deemed homophobic, regarding the assault on Paul Pelosi.)”

Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders The Paul Pelosi thing was utterly sickening and while my moment for utter discreditation of Musk came with his Putinesque peace plan for Ukraine, this took it down way lower. To me, Musk buying Twitter feels like some big NYC realtor buying the site of an abandoned synagogue covered with hate graffiti and putting up a tower no one can afford called "Temple Apartments" (RL thing) or Pansophical buying Corsica S Coast in SL. Essence-and-Genre-destroying
Show threadRobinNov 28, 2022
@prokofy @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders 100%
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders Yet none of you complained when Obama harnessed Facebook to win, enabling the 14-year-old daughter of his supporters in my parish to phone strangers in Ohio and harangue them to vote, or when on early Twitter, Dave Winner helped out Obama by tweeting to zillions, "Everybody in the Northeast is a racist unless they vote for Obama". And a million other examples. This sort of thing never feels bad on your own side.
Show threadRobinNov 28, 2022

@prokofy @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders that’s some classic #FalseEquivalence

None of that is #hatespeech that invites violence

Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders So you say. I'm all for trying Trump on grounds of incitement of imminent violence under Supreme Court jurisprudence bc I think it wd stick. Hopefully. But I don't hide the fact that it's not just the John Brown Club, an anti-fa front, but 300 other socialist gun clubs that are armed. You can use the word "and" without obliterating the fact that one side is far worse now. None of you complained when platforms were harnessed. Harnessing where it starts
Show threadDavid ReinertsonNov 28, 2022
@prokofy @Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders Some people say Facebook is harnessed.
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders A key problem on these services is that I'm not anonymous and my RL name is linked and therefore I'm opened up to anti-fa harassment of my RL Facebook page merely for pointing out a fact without getting all Andy Ngo about it. You're anonymous, however AND you live in the same town I do. But it's fine if we don't follow each other : )
Show threadDavid ReinertsonNov 28, 2022
@prokofy @Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders I hope you’re OK.
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@davidreinertson Say, do I write to you, like you wrote to Chevron, "I'm not a customer and I oppose global warming, but I'll follow you? That is, if my tolerance for smart comebacks grows after minimizing Twitter. It may not.
Show threadDavid ReinertsonNov 28, 2022
@prokofy @Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders Facebook is fine.
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@davidreinertson @Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders I don't think Facebook is "fine" when, unasked, I can see Jordan Petersen in my feed and be harassed by faux friend requests by KGB goons who have named themselves after Soviet ships and never get removed by FB who thinks they are people. No, not fine. And yes, harnessed, by various sides, tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. Yes, it's a war, even if virtual, that all too often these days materializes in deadly forms in RL
Show threadbossandnova 🔺Nov 29, 2022
@Jelaniya @claesdevreese @prokofy @Chimaera @Chanders Translate this: NYET #FalseEquivalence #block
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders When I posted a harsh critique of @scobleizer for taking Twitter to Congress merely as a "tech demo," and said someday politicians I didn't vote for will have a huge one-way broadcast system where they block me and I lose my right to redress wrongs in petitions, he may regret it. He called arguing with me like "talking to a hair dryer". But I was right.
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders As for amplifying Nazi rhetoric, Twitter as a platform and a utility does that on its own, even under the previous set of more or less decent engineers who didn't seem to overly weld their views into the platform after 15 years from my observations. Does he do it deliberately because he's a Nazi? Or a culture jammer like a common 4channer? I don't need to find out. But sorry, not evacuating those idiots so I can't see RL people evacuating from Kharkiv
Show threadC.D. LewisNov 27, 2022
@prokofy @Chimaera Already I can’t search for news on the sick vulture without the results being overrun with neo-Nazis and genocide apologists and people cheering war crimes. The date Twitter became unusable has in my view already arrived. @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders
Show threadRobinNov 27, 2022
@Sea_Dragons @prokofy @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders the trending topics must be a dumpster fire
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@Sea_Dragons Yes, I realize. My TL goes like this now: [SL thing] [Other SL thing] [AI thing] [tech thing] [My friend John's backyard] and then all of a sudden: DOES YOUR SPAGHETTI HAVE PLUTONIUM IN IT?! and FOLLOW ME I'M A ORBAN GROUPIE. So I get it. I didn't follow these people. They just appeared out of nowhere. I think the breakage method is to inject streams of this into people's regular TLs so they go wild. I block a bit of it, or just log off. The vulture has me blocked on one acct, helps
Show threadC.D. LewisNov 29, 2022
@prokofy Since confronting bullshit at the sick vulture causes the bullshit to be boosted: "engagement" drives up visibility under the algorithm, which values volume over melody. It's no wonder the result is the promotion of outrageous and offensive content. It's just diametrically opposed to the interests of those who want information and to connect to people interested in exchanging facts.
Show threadProkofyNov 29, 2022
@Sea_Dragons Does Mastodon have a policy of transparency on their algorithm types and uses and effects?
Show threadC.D. LewisNov 30, 2022
@prokofy Since Mastodon is both an open-source product (so anyone can see the algorithms used in it) and decentralized (so a lone implementor can't secretly add undocumented evils) there's as much transparency as anyone cares to demand. The Like/Favorite doesn't promote toots, it merely communicates appreciation to the poster. Reposting boots visibility not only by sharing with followers but with the reposter's server generally.
Show threadProkofyNov 30, 2022
@Sea_Dragons Could you point to the page that Mastodon has about its *policies* and its list of cases adjudicated around these policies? Pointing me to a page on GitHub isn't what I mean. Transparency isn't the unmitigated good you imagine unless it comes with coherency and presentation of the sense and meaning of the set of data. I'm fine with just communicating with another user with likes and not having to enter what sounds like an expensive economy of hashtags and boosting.
Show threadC.D. LewisDec 1, 2022
@prokofy A description of a "policy" would be a rewording or an interpretation and is less informative than an examination of the actual implementation itself. The reference to a "power center" ignores both the distributed nature of the network and the open source nature of the project and the ability of those who would be administrators to make improvements for their users.
Show threadProkofyDec 1, 2022
@Sea_Dragons There are a million implementations, flawless or flawed, of a policy. We need to see the policy. The policy is the glimmer in the eye of the coder's birthed algorithm. Lots of decentralized things with their own independent, autonomous republics have power centers. And I don't mean Russia. I mean the NYPL, a central entity with a system but branches with individual choices, where Drag Queen Story Hour is welcome in one borough and not in another. So does Center ban or ignore?
Show threadC.D. LewisDec 1, 2022
@prokofy The whole point of the federated structure is to allow people who don't want to hear about MAGA or drag queen story hour or the glorious extermination of antirevolutionary freethinkers of falun gong to join (or found) instances with policies that suit their taste. It's nonsense to expect this to occur in software. I would expect the NYPL (and other public libraries) to use accounts on instances (or host instances) that promote reading and the spread of reading and banned books.
Show threadProkofyDec 1, 2022
@Sea_Dragons If people were content to just allow the other instances with topics or expressions they disliked or weren't interested in just to be, that would be one thing. But they want to cross over to them and exterminate them and port it to RL. So you have to be concerned about the amplification effects of social media and even federativeiterative to enhance RL exterminism. Because it has already done that on many fronts, right and left or in between.
Show threadProkofyNov 30, 2022
@Sea_Dragons I think it's also important to understand that the federative structure isn't the tech mystery you all imagine; the habits of using it are the hard part. It works like the US or Russia, which are federations. You can ban abortion in one state and another permits it. You can have civil war in one Russian subject and another even has a president of their own. We get it. But it's about policies and where the power center is.
Show threadProkofyNov 29, 2022
@Sea_Dragons I think there are times, places, and manners when you should confront the bullshit and other times it is counterproductive. Can you really change the nature of a machine with all its complex parts so quickly? I guess you can.
Show threadProkofyNov 29, 2022

@Sea_Dragons @Chimaera @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders

Depends on the use, and by whom, but yeah

https://twitter.com/Prokofy/status/1597632220319354881

Prokofy Neva 🌻 on Twitter

“1) Hi all, after a lockout, I managed to get logged back on to Twitter thru this crazy, hard process called "Arkrose" which is NOT about a mere captcha & hone call. It is an arduous, frustrating repeated maze test designed to keep hired humans from hacking sites with brute force.”

Twitter
Show threadC.D. LewisNov 27, 2022
@Chimaera @prokofy It’s not out of price range, it’s just not for sale. If he was telling the truth about losing $4m/day, it’ll be an expensive hobby building the new Klan house. @Jelaniya @claesdevreese @Chanders
Show threadMelissaNov 27, 2022

@prokofy There's going to be a civil war because of people on twitter? 100% of the twitter people I follow are people with disability and illness who don't have the tech skills or cognitive availability to learn and use Mastadon so easily.

Some of the people left behind ARE ALWAYs left behind. ALT text may be way to CLAIM accessibility, but my blind friend hasn't moved here. I have 2 friends in and out of the hospital who just can't find the time to migrate.

Show threadProkofyNov 27, 2022
@MelonDC I hear you! No, a civil war between political positions and platforms, not within just one. I don't see it in those terms. Go back to read @Jelaniya posts, where this discussion originated. His call seemed to be: leave Twitter completely or, to paraphrase, you are part of the problem, not the solution. My position is that we can't ask that of people and I myself will keep work and personal accounts on Twitter as I gradually migrate and find people, etc. And no need to polarize.
Show threadDaphneNov 27, 2022
@prokofy @MelonDC You are doubling down on your reasoning to go from Dean Cobb's toot to [this could mean civil war]?
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@daphne @MelonDC I Jelani Cobb is not "Dean" to me, he's a New Yorker journalist as well as a scholar who came here to do political organizing and started by telling people who stayed on Twitter were essentially betraying "the cause". So yeah, I do think that sort of thing is part of the many "prompts" that eventually create an AI painting called "civil war". Yes, indeedy.
Show threadDaphneNov 28, 2022
@prokofy @MelonDC wow, that sounds kinda crackpotty.
Show threadProkofyNov 27, 2022
@MelonDC I still feel that conversations are fractured and you can't find the beginning of them because of some way this is threaded or not threaded, not sure. Therefore I send you a screen shot. Bottom line: anyone's take on what to do about Twitter going right-wing and extreme and how we array around that reality need not concern you given your constituency. You'll make your way.
Show threadDavid ReinertsonNov 28, 2022
@MelonDC @prokofy Then we have a lot of work to do, and there are a lot of newly unemployed tech workers. Hard times.
Show threadProkofyNov 28, 2022
@davidreinertson @MelonDC Something tells me that a lot of those unemployed techs already have other jobs. Or maybe not. Maybe for the first time in the history of the universe the tech set will feel like the rest of us in other sectors who have been losing our jobs for decades.