Sanchia deSouzaNov 18, 2022
Luke LeBrun

The collapse of Twitter for (basically) self-inflicted reasons makes a strong case for building online infrastructure structured as a non-profit or public utility.

People rely on these platforms for public information, use them for democratic debate and many invest their livelihoods in them.

These platforms are too important to public safety, peoples’ livelihoods and democracy to leave in the hands of eccentric billionaires or the whims of stock markets.

Nov 18, 2022 at 3:19amMastodon for iOS
Show threadDystopicRedheadNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Absolutely agree.
I have even thought we, the people, the Twitter users, should actually campaign to get public ownership of Twitter.
Show threadLostatsea369Nov 18, 2022
@DystopicRedhead @llebrun I couldn't agree more- the fact that Twitter (& Facebook for that matter) haven't become public utilities, regulated by gov't oversight (solving the entire 'free speech' debate) & seen as the new 'public square' speaks to the overwhelming ownership companies & corporations have over our govt & 'elected' officials.
Show threadDystopicRedheadNov 18, 2022
@lostatsea369 @llebrun Absolutely. We need to get back our online public space, our virtual square. It's so important for debate and democracy.
Show threadHtaggertNov 22, 2022
@llebrun @lostatsea369 @DystopicRedhead but the whole regulated by Government oversight is fraught with issue. Which level of Government? Should say the Governor of a certain state have oversight and then declare that one “can’t say gay”? I feel like it’s caught between a rock and a hard place. And if Government is the administrator- they then have access to a lot of information…I don’t have a solution. Just a lot of questions.
Show threadT. McElweeNov 18, 2022

@DystopicRedhead @llebrun maybe a little judgey of me, but Twitter's staff didn't even so much as sick-out or picket.

It says a lot about how techies, even when they have every reason to build an alternative, simply won't.

Show threadDystopicRedheadNov 18, 2022
@tdotmcelwee @llebrun Now you mention it - so so GLARINGLY true. No protests. No picketing. No nothing of what would have been normal like - 20 years ago? I don't know if the issue is just a techie one. But I sure know that when there was a workers' strike at the car factory, students, teachers, people from all walks of life joined in. I don't see much of that anymore.
Show threadDave JohnsonNov 19, 2022

@DystopicRedhead The tech industry developed since the Reagan years, when they broke unions and stopped enforcing regulations. So the industry just ignores the rules.

People IN the tech industry are younger than those years and have no memory of that, The industry also purges people who pass a certain age.

Show threadGoldaDec 4, 2022
@DystopicRedhead @tdotmcelwee @llebrun this might be part of the sysadmin ethos of "keep the pipes running at all times" - like, the idea of letting things break is so counter to the professional ethics that it would be a hard sell
Show threadDave JohnsonNov 19, 2022

@DystopicRedhead @llebrun

The government used to do that. Things were declared to be public utilities and regulated for the common good.

The telephone system was regulated because the "network effect" meant everyone had to be on the same system or the system wouldn't work.

That is Twitter for the "town hall" effect, and Facebook for connecting with friends and relatives.

Show threadTRiGNov 19, 2022
@dcjohnson @DystopicRedhead @llebrun The problem is that this puts the government (or a government-owned body) in charge of moderation. In the USA in particular, with its free speech laws, that gets weird fast. In other countries, it's still not necessarily ideal.
Show threadDave JohnsonNov 19, 2022
@TRiG I think a functioning democracy should be able to handle that.
Show threadTRiGNov 19, 2022
@dcjohnson In principle, yes, but it would get tricky in practice. Not an insurmountable problem, probably, but certainly something to bear in mind.
Show threadDave JohnsonNov 19, 2022
@TRiG Yep. Also we have to find a functioning democracy to try it out.
Show threadDystopicRedheadNov 19, 2022
@TRiG @dcjohnson @llebrun That's a legitimate concern. The platform/s should be overseen and moderated by some sort of impartial body. But I believe we're thinking about it with a mindset that is still heavily influenced by the past. Oversight maybe could be international and decentralised.
Show threadScott Tribe - Proud Ketchup Chip NationalistNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Mastodon would qualify as this, wouldn't it?
Show threadLuke LeBrunNov 18, 2022
@stribeprogblog Yup, it’s a non-profit.
Show threadHelmicNov 18, 2022

@stribeprogblog @llebrun Kinda sorta. The software Mastodon is funded by a non-profit, but the "Fediverse" is literally just a collection of servers owned by random ass people talking to one another. Which I prefer to state control, it keeps moderation out of the hands of states that 100% will abuse that.

But like the VLC player project findoms the French, so I really like the idea of geting taxpayer money to fund FOSS we use to shitpost, since that degree of separation helps to avoid states telling us what we can say.

Show thread𝐌𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐁𝐥𝐞𝐬𝐤𝐢𝐞 𝙞𝙨 𝙤𝙣𝙡𝙞𝙣𝙚Nov 18, 2022
@llebrun I've lost track of how many efforts there were to create open source, democratized alternatives to Facebook and Twitter. It seems like the only way to get people to adopt is to force out the incumbent giant.
Show threadSpiritechNov 18, 2022
@bleskie @llebrun Who knew we could just taunt a billionaire man-child into buying the target site then watch as he speed runs it into the ground. 😂
Show threadChris MahanNov 19, 2022
@Spiritech @bleskie @llebrun for three times what it was worth!
Show threadCitizencatNov 18, 2022
@llebrun
I do like the idea of social media being a public utility, but even that would be vulnerable to the political party in control.
@jmalonzo
Show threadLuke LeBrunNov 18, 2022
@citizencat @jmalonzo At least you would have the power to vote them out, unlike the unelected and unaccountable billionaires who run private companies.
Show threadJanNov 18, 2022
@llebrun @citizencat or block the instance they're living on (in case of a rogue/fascist political party). I think this is why public utility/gov accounts should sit on their own instances. Community instances shouldn't be hosting those types of accounts.
Show thread[empty]Nov 18, 2022
@llebrun Agree 100%
Show threadPolitical Cativists Nov 18, 2022
@llebrun Fully agree! When WorldCom went bankrupt, the government had critical comms on their networks so they couldn't let the doors shut. I'm hopeful this may be a similar situation. So many entrepreneurs, so much access to local news... emergency broadcasts. Hard to imagine being suddenly Twitterless. #Elon doesn't deserve for it to be saved, but #WeThePeople do.
Show threadmoparisthebestNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Disagree. It's a strong case for open and federated protocols and encouraging people to run their own infrastructure for family and friends.

Giant instances are the problem, regardless of who runs them.
Show threadLuke LeBrunNov 18, 2022
@moparisthebest And yet here you are, communicating with me on an open, federated platform that is incorporated as a non-profit!
Show threadmoparisthebestNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Your instance might be, but I run my own, aren't open and federated protocols great? :D
Show threadchrisNov 18, 2022
@moparisthebest @llebrun your instance is incorporated as a non-profit? Mine isn’t, as far as I know. Are there many non-profit email providers out there ?
Show threadPulkoMandyNov 18, 2022
@llebrun @moparisthebest a non-profit instead of a company is a step in the rigqt direction, but it is not enough. Nonprofits can run out of resources (money or people to do the work) or also be taken over or stopped in various ways (see what happened to Freenode not so long ago, or imagine what a nonprofit would do in face of legal threats).
We need something more resilient than that, and federation/distribution helps with it.
Show threadwapimaskwaNov 18, 2022
@llebrun You still need to spread sshit?
Show threadJohn UrquhartNov 18, 2022

@llebrun I think it also powerfully highlights the need for us to agitate collectively for democratic solutions on these platforms for how they are run.

If these are crucial public services then they should be socialised - internationally, transcendent borders.

Show threadwslackNov 18, 2022
@llebrun It is amazing that we have free e-mail, mapping, and other services. The public has gotten used to something-for-nothing (perhaps because we don't realize how much our data is being used)
Show threadSheeri CabralNov 18, 2022
@wslack @llebrun and imagine if, tomorrow, a company decided to stop giving free email.
Show threadLeo SaumureNov 18, 2022
@llebrun I think that is what Jack is trying to accomplish with his new endeavour.
Show threadElías ChaoNov 18, 2022
@leosaumure @llebrun Don’t think a lot of people will trust anything Jack does for a while.
Show threadelipompomNov 18, 2022
@llebrun #publicservice #media is massively underrated
Show threadDirectorXNov 18, 2022

@llebrun what do you think about Dorsey’s Bluesky “kinda-like-twitter-as-protocol” Social thing?

If Mastodon is already here and racking up new users with a #twittermigration is that enough to beat back another start-up launched by the same guy who set us down a bad path with twitter all over again?

Show threadLuke LeBrunNov 18, 2022

@DirectorX I think it sounds like a bunch of vague buzzwords at this point. No idea how it will work or what it's supposed to look like.

I think some of Twitter's toxicity was a byproduct of design decisions intended to keep eyeballs on the platform for the sake of advertisers and I like the idea of a model like Signal, but who knows how any of this will end up working in practice.

Show threadA land fit for all our futuresNov 18, 2022
@llebrun agreed. I have learned so much on Twitter over the years, mainly through insights into lives that I don't experience first hand. FI, I don't think I've encountered anyone not in West Europe or North America on Mastodon yet. It's frustrating having to start building up those connections again.
Show threadNotNowOrLaterNov 18, 2022

@PenguinJunk @llebrun i use the federated time line to find those people.

that is when you see everything out there, that your instance has not blocked.

it is quite a useful tool.

Show threadA land fit for all our futuresNov 19, 2022
@NotNowOrLater2 @llebrun it takes a lot of trawling though, don't you think? I'm sure I'll get there, probably in less time than with Twits, but I'm still missing those voices challenging my perspectives.
Show threadNotNowOrLaterNov 19, 2022

@PenguinJunk @llebrun if their are topics in which you are interested, i recommend looking up and following the #hashtags. this will help you find people who are talking about the things of interest to you.

as with twitter, it takes time to find people. we seem to forget how long it took to curate our timelines on #twitter.

most groups have a hashtag that they post with their messages. it helps people to find you as well.

#climatejustice

Show threadNotNowOrLaterNov 19, 2022

@PenguinJunk @llebrun

i also do regular checks on twitter to see if those that i love have made an account. and i'm happy to say many have.

i also take time to look at the follow lists of people that i admire. this is another way that i have found people to follow.

Show threadKayla AndersonNov 18, 2022
@llebrun The sad-funny thing about it all is that the internet was started as a federal project. It wasn’t until more people wanted access to it that the private sector got involved, seeing it as a profit opportunity — and now we’re here 😶
Show threadLuke LeBrunNov 18, 2022
@imbaela Good point!
Show threadDraphsorNov 18, 2022
@llebrun there’s something to be said for the information superhighway analogy.
Show threadCJ the Awkward LeftyNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Yep, a lot of niche content creators rely on Twitter to bulild an audience because their work doesn't necessarily appeal to the general public, so they need the size of twitter along with the algorithms to get their work out to the most people possible who will likely enjoy it. I've said for a long time that Twitter ought to be publicly owned.
Show threadkrayneumNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Ideally that structure would also be decentralized, like #Mastadon.
Show threadAli CollinsNov 18, 2022
@llebrun This isn’t a new problem. Black women and other marginalized folks have always been more likely folks to get their free speech cancelled on all these apps. We basically have plutocratic oligarchs moderating who gets to exercise the right to participate in public discourse. Just because it’s an app doesn’t mean it’s not a “public space”.
Show threadYodaNov 18, 2022
@alimcollins @llebrun that is indeed true. There is no sanctuary from anti blackness and the digital space is where everything is logged is even more dangerous. But this whole fiasco is exciting.
Show threadRobExmoorNov 18, 2022
@llebrun government needs to recognise that one of its key functions is to support/invest in tech, platforms and other social and physical infrastructure that offers a clear public good. So yes. However ‘invest in’ can be a very broad term and rarely means own and run. 👍
Show threadmiauryeNov 18, 2022
@llebrun Too much to ask of greedy America. God I hate this country.