Beth Anderson Nov 17, 2022
blaine

A number of people have asked me if I think that governments should run Mastodon instances for citizens. There may be exceptions, but I don't think governments should be in this business, for a variety of reasons.

However, I do think that *Libraries* would be *amazing* hosts for public federated social media communities. Just sayin'.

📚

Nov 17, 2022 at 3:01amWeb
Show threadAbraham SammaNov 17, 2022
@blaine I think municipalities and local governments could offer a free space for citizens. It's not exactly a bad idea, but it needs a good deal of thought before executing or it may open a can of worms.
Show threadChris Waigl 📡🌲🔥🏳️‍🌈Nov 17, 2022

@absamma @blaine I think if local / municipal governments were to run citizens' Mastodon servers, the library would be an excellent vehicle to achieve that. (Or if appropriate on a state level through library networks, if a state / province / regional structure has implemented that.)

There are other public service level or quasi-NGO (highly regulated nonprofits with stable government funding) options.

Show threadEmeka Azuka OkoyeNov 17, 2022
@absamma @blaine makes sense as part of the municipality open government.
Show threadEscarpmentNov 17, 2022
@blaine I agree libraries should. But, at least in the US, libraries are the government...
Show threadDarius KazemiNov 17, 2022
@escarpment @blaine no they aren't... libraries are generally independent institutions, though they may receive funding from the government
Show threadEric AderholdNov 17, 2022

@darius @escarpment @blaine

Maybe depends on the area. In every US place I've lived, the libraries (outside of schools and universities) are fully owned and operated by the city or county government.

Show threadEscarpmentNov 17, 2022

@darius @blaine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Public_Library

"A $219 million property tax levy was approved by Seattle voters in August 2019 to fund library services"

"in November 2012 Seattle voters passed a 7-year levy to restore services"

"In 1998, Seattle voters, with an unprecedented 69 percent approval rate, approved the largest library bond issue then ever submitted in the United States. The $196 million "Libraries for All" bond measure"

Taxes, levies, bond issues: these are the instruments of govt.

Seattle Public Library - Wikipedia

Show threadCarl JohnsonNov 17, 2022
@darius @escarpment @blaine Library boards in NY and PA are locally elected or appointed by county govt. and funded through taxes. That's government as much as a sewer district or fire district is. May not be the case everywhere.
Show threadVictor VenemaNov 17, 2022

@cjonthehudson Yes, the fire department is also government.

@darius @escarpment @blaine

Show threadscottNov 19, 2022
@darius @escarpment @blaine this may differ around the country, but here in Massachusetts libraries are generally government agencies... for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_Free_Library?wprov=sfla1
Newton Free Library - Wikipedia

Show threadMatildaNov 21, 2022
@escarpment @blaine @scott @darius Same in CA.
Show threadMatildaNov 21, 2022
@darius @blaine @escarpment In California public libraries are part of county or city government. This is true for a lot of states.
Show threadDarius KazemiNov 21, 2022
@owlislost @blaine @escarpment I had no idea it was part of government in so many jurisdictions
Show threadMatildaNov 21, 2022
@darius @blaine @escarpment FWIW, most governments don’t seem to either. They’re among the most poorly paid and overlooked agencies. And the workers are definitely not turning over any privacy information.
Show threadDan Kloke Dec 22, 2022

@owlislost @darius @blaine @escarpment

https://sfpl.org/about-us/confidentiality-and-usa-patriot-act

USA PATRIOT Act and Library Confidentiality

Federal law and the Library's commitment to protecting user privacy and confidentiality

Show threadMatildaDec 22, 2022
@dkloke @darius @blaine @escarpment Exactly
Show threadMartin DeanDec 22, 2022

@darius @owlislost @blaine @escarpment who else would run such a public service?
I am aware of private libraries, and university libraries, but ordinary ones are run by Councils.

All power to the librarians

Show threadDominic RivronNov 19, 2022
@escarpment Same in the UK. social media run by libraries here would be no less constrained that social media run by the government itself.
Show threadSoldanNov 17, 2022

@blaine putting governments in charge would be TERRIBLE, for a variety of reasons.

Cosigned on everything.

Show threadRenéeNov 17, 2022
@Soldan Why? Libraries used to host email services and public access terminals for those who didn't have uni access back in the day. Also, unis provided a similar service. Libraries have a strong tradition of not narcing, as well. @blaine
Show threadSoldanNov 17, 2022

@reneestephen @blaine

I agree with Libraries being involved and hosting instances. Same with Unis - like back in the Usenet days before the Eternal September.

Governments not so much. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Show threadRenéeNov 17, 2022
@Soldan Oh my mistake, you were clear! I conflated two responses, one of which, not yours, notes that governments *fund* libraries so they are defacto the same. (But to that I'd argue that they are arms-length in a meaningful way.) @blaine
Show threadSoldanNov 18, 2022
@reneestephen @blaine Ahh! I gotchu! My MIL is a retired librarian and library science professor. She'd hoist me by my petard if she thought I thought that librarians gave a rat's butt about what the gumment tells them to do.
Show threadT4$Nov 17, 2022
@reneestephen @Soldan @blaine Having worked for a municipal public library I can say for sure that while funded by levies and operating as a part of the city/county, there is little to no connection between public libraries and the political machines of government. If anything libraries are one of the few examples of ideal government for the people and by the people. Which is why many of them lean left.
Show threadEscarpmentNov 17, 2022
@Soldan @blaine This sounds a lot like "keep your government hands off my Medicare." Library is government. Government is library. Often it's local or municipal government, but government nonetheless.
Show threadKerim Friedman 傅可恩Nov 17, 2022
@blaine libraries are part of the government. Local government, but still government. I’m all for it, but don’t see a need to set them apart from the rest of the government?
Show threadAtzNov 17, 2022

@kerim @blaine Not all government is the same. There isn't just one large government database of "stuff". And not all libraries are part of government.

libraries also have a strong tradition of protecting privacy and access.

It's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how well it would work for moderation though. Libraries can be stretched on resources.

Show threadjposelNov 17, 2022
@kerim @atzanteol @blaine not only regarding resources, but also regarding legal requirements. Depending on legislation, a government service or funded by public money service may not be as independent, or rather free than an orgayir association run by private law.
Show threadJB EmmonsNov 17, 2022

@blaine What are your thoughts on public media presence in the Fediverse? There's been some talk from academics here in Canada encouraging the CBC to open an instance.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/11/10/CBC-Should-Start-Own-Mastodon-Server/

CBC Should Start Their Own Mastodon Server | The Tyee

Now’s a great time for our public broadcaster to stop relying on privately owned platforms to reach its audience.

The Tyee
Show threadDaniel BrotherstonNov 17, 2022

@IntlLawGnome @blaine

It makes perfect sense to me that any media organization (or any organization at all) should run their own instance. It's essentially the equivalent of 'verified'.

Show threadJames FairbairnNov 17, 2022
@blaine have you read Klinenberg’s Palaces for the Peiple? It’s like a hymn to the public library (and other social infrastructure)
Show threadZedNetzNov 17, 2022
@blaine not a bad idea.
Show threadAdamNov 17, 2022
@blaine They should run instances for Government personnel though. Like the EU does: https://social.network.europa.eu/about
And Germany: https://social.bund.de/explore
EU Voice

EU Voice is the official ActivityPub platform of the EU institutions. With EU Video, it is part of an alternative social media pilot proposed and provided by the European Data Protection Supervisor.

Mastodon hosted on social.network.europa.eu
Show threadTim ChambersNov 17, 2022
@adam @blaine Agreed!
Show threadStop-the-MAGAss-ReichNov 17, 2022
@blaine But govt should run their own servers. All the way from local to fed. Current infomation is so scattered that the average citizen cannot get important timely information.
Show threadpaleszNov 17, 2022
@lumiere2016 @blaine I think government should just not run a big single instance, but each govt agency should run their own and local governments should run their own separate servers too. Why? Think of a potentially toxic regime taking over and wanting to control communication... They'd have harder time with more instances with different moderation policies.
Show threadpaleszNov 17, 2022
@lumiere2016 @blaine Beside the above, I think the important part is that citizens should not be able to get accounts on these servers.
Show threadStop-the-MAGAss-ReichNov 17, 2022
@palesz @blaine yes!
Show threadRyan RandallNov 17, 2022

@blaine As a former librarian—at a community college, not a public library—would you mind saying more as to why you think libraries would be a great fit?

And maybe which types of libraries you have in mind?

I've long thought it'd be great for libraries to host (or even help develop) BookWyrm as well. https://bookwyrm.social

BookWyrm

None

Show threadVictor VenemaNov 17, 2022

@ryanrandall : "why you think libraries would be a great fit?"

For universities hosting Mastodon servers I think the computation centre should do the software and the library the moderation.

Librarians are able to categorize books in a world that does not have categories; So they can likely apply moderation rules fairly. Also librarians have the patience of angels dealing with people. Libraries are somewhat removed from power, better than the PR office who would run the 1st account.

@blaine

Show threadWolfgang BlauNov 17, 2022
@blaine yes!
Show threadMarkGNov 17, 2022
@blaine
The Canadian government partially funds the CBC; the CBC is a Crown corporation, and thus is not directly controlled by government. I could see a similar arrangement for public funding of a Mastodon server.
Show threadSparkle TeaNov 17, 2022

@blaine
There are so many kinds of libraries.

The Internet Archive has established its own server, for instance. 😁 I have been using their live music archive for years.

https://blog.archive.org/2022/11/13/we-have-added-a-mastodon-server/

We have added a Mastodon Server | Internet Archive Blogs

Show threadAlexander Hamizdat Nov 17, 2022
@blaine are you... a libertarian?
Show threadlizzzzardNov 17, 2022
@alexhammy209 @blaine libratarian.
Show threadKevin McBrideNov 17, 2022
@blaine I was thinking recently how cool it would be if my alma mater (and other universities) hosted instances. It would be an incredible opportunity for CS students to get hands on experience with a production app they’d actually enjoy working with, and a source of pride for alumni who decide to join.
Show threadArlen TeesNov 17, 2022
@blaine I'm not so sure about that. Here in BC we have a gvt run printer that offers print and digital publishing, a federated social channel seems to be a natural extension there.
Show threadJustin FitzsimmonsNov 17, 2022
@blaine In your view what's the practical difference between a dedicated government program vs expanding the library's public funding and having them do it?
Show threadblaineNov 17, 2022
@jsfitzsimmons brass tacks: libraries are often funded with tax revenue, but they do not hold a monopoly over violence.
Show threadnikkianaNov 17, 2022

@blaine I feel like there could be uses for it... but maybe not in the wider federated sense.

Like, for example... I could see a limited federated network between libraries or schools being a thing that could be potentially useful.

Show threadCreatrix TiaraNov 17, 2022

@blaine oh good lord who is suggesting nationalised Mastodon instances, that is a nightmare and a half

like if it's purely informational that's one thing but an unfettered Everyone In The Country Is In One Instance situation would be a mess

Show threadJet BalsaNov 17, 2022
@creatrixtiara @[email protected] Also sounds like a huge PITA to run, but it wont stop someone from trying.
Show threadMartin DeanDec 22, 2022
@creatrixtiara @blaine eh? Nationalisation is good.
Though localities running servers would be municipalisation, better
Show threadCreatrix TiaraDec 22, 2022
@martinddean @blaine not for social media it's not. Just look at how the Malaysian government has come after bloggers and marginalised artists for """sedition""".
Show threadMartin DeanDec 22, 2022
@creatrixtiara @blaine what is nationalised in Malaysia?
Show threadCreatrix TiaraDec 22, 2022
@martinddean @blaine is this a serious question
Show threadKuma Chan 🧸Nov 17, 2022
@blaine I like what the German government did. It makes sense to have all official government Mastodon accounts on the same instance on a well known domain.
Show threadlizzzzardNov 17, 2022
@blaine the German government actually has a mastodon instance. It's closed and hosts the official accounts of ministries and government officials. I welcome that.
Show threadDźwiedziuNov 17, 2022
@lizzard @blaine closed as in “defederated”, or closed “internal-only”?
Show threadSilkesterDec 4, 2022

@dzwiedziu @lizzard @blaine
Intenral-only.

EU
social.network.europa.eu
Germany
social.bund.de
Baden-Württemberg
bawü.social

Still very much incomplete, but its a start.