Mastodawn

Eliot Halley Vrijmoet Nov 11, 2022

💉💉💉🎉

I think much of my issue around the Content Warning culture on Mastodon, is the vocabulary. "Content Warning" has a very specific meaning in other contexts. Here, it is more like "Content Filter" or "Subject Line," to give readers a choice to expand or not.

This feels wrong, because of other contexts where majority folks have tried to express trauma or pain at even having to hear about the racism that impacted me. Feels very much like "Ban teaching civil rights, so white kids don't feel bad."

💉💉💉🎉Nov 10, 2022

The issue of "Most white folk don't want to hear about your racism" is a related but separate issue. I don't think forcing people whose ears aren't open (or aren't open right now) to hear what they don't want to hear is fruitful anyway.🤷🏿‍♂️

Over the years, a bunch of folks said I helped them become less racist. That's not true. I don't have that power. I wish I did! They made themselves less racist.

What happened was, they opened their own ears, and then they could hear what I was saying.

Bohdan Ivashko Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke if I didn't want to hear about some topics I can always filter them (especially since there seem to be filters that can add content warning on the receiving end, not sure if that's an official feature but still), we definitely need to get rid of this effort of silencing people's lived experiences even if they aren't pleasant

Fenneladon Privacyasaurus Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke 💯 for all of this - so many of the problems 🐦 ies have here could have been hugely mitigated with better explanation/wording. 😬

But also, our (people like me) need/entitlement to go be cops & missionaries at strangers needs to stop.

The absurdity of evangelicals trying to force the holy word of consent onto everyone we see would be hilarious if it wasn't being used as straight up harassment. 🙁

Az_The nicest of the damned.Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke A large part of the problem that some white people have is that they do not see themselves as overtly racist. The imagine that racism is attending Klan rallies. Actively hating people. They don't see or understand the systems they take part in that result in systemic racism.
Innuendo Studio recently released an excellent video that details this very issue. Well worth the view.

https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M

The Alt-Right Playbook: The Cost of Doing Business

YouTube

Irene Zhang Nov 11, 2022

@Az_ @mekkaokereke This video is great, thanks for posting it. It’s been really hard for me to explain to the white people around me. Similarly for men in tech: if they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

Soldier of Misfortune Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke They opened their ears, which opened their minds, culminating in opening their hearts.
Why anyone would judge a group of people for something out of their control is beyond me. A good hearted person abhors the judgement of anyone unless they have personal experience with that person that is impossible to forgive. And that should never include race, gender, who they love, age, or political affiliation. People are more complex than anything observable superficially.

@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke Thank you for saying it when they could hear it. 💙

Just Judith'n'ALF Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke
To my shame, I raise my hand as a classic example of learning far too late how racist I was despite thinking I was not (then,and know now, must still be).
I am grateful beyond measure for those who persisted in educating me, confronting it, sometimes brutally, but always convincingly.
Persist.

SandersonVonDog Nov 18, 2022

@mekkaokereke I want to be less racist. I don’t like having that junk floating around in my head. I appreciate when folks point out when I’m acting or speaking with those old programmed scripts that hurt others

Ted Han ★ 韓聖安 Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke which thing feels wrong, the UX mechanics you're describing or the name/description as a content warning? (I agree there's a mismatch, it's more like a heads up.)

💉💉💉🎉Nov 10, 2022

@knowtheory Two things feel wrong:

The name of "Content Warning." This puts using the feature in the same bucket as not showing depictions of gore, or content that can trigger PTSD.

And the guidance to use the feature. Someone saying "Put a content Warning on that!" on issues of describing racism, feels a lot like "Descriptions of you existing as a Black person cause me trauma on the same level as other stuff that should be behind Content Warnings! You just harshed my vibes!"

💉💉💉🎉Nov 10, 2022

You'll notice that in US society, Black people experience more repercussions for speaking about racism, than racists get for being racist:

* Kaepernick, fired and unhire-able
* Jemele Hill, fired
* Black employees at Coinbase, let go/asked to leave
* Inmates at Rikers who complained, email and letters taken away

So the "Hide your distasteful Black experiences" message gets mixed up in the "Use subjects" message, in a way that makes people understandably upset.

Ted Han ★ 韓聖安 Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke Oh yeah, i agree completely. I think the fediverse has some serious unresolved issues with what it means to be in a community with people experiencing different things than you. It manifests in other places too, but the CW features bring it to the fore here.

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory agreed mate. I tend to think that for certain topics, it really should be on people to use Mastodon's powerful filters if they insist on maintaining a blinkered experience here.

planetdma Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory Well-stated, and frankly, with this last read, I'm out. Mastodon promised a curated local thread, and I intentionally only followed like 12 Black people for some relief from the incessant mainstream neediness and fragility and control and insistence on being affirmed and exonerated and euphoric at all times of every day. It hasn't been a week, and my timeline already is filled with Black people defending speaking about daily life. To each other. Out.

💉💉💉🎉Nov 11, 2022

@planetdma @knowtheory

💔😕

I understand

VoteBlueforDemocracy Nov 11, 2022

@planetdma @mekkaokereke @knowtheory 😞 I understand, and honestly, I am starting to feel the same way. That article with the headline Home Invasion really made me feel angry and uncomfortable. Have checked out almost every format and it is getting kind of demoralizing.

Wtime Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory I agree. I am new here, and I can’t log-into the browser (no idea what is wrong!) to see all of the features, BUT, I think that I read you can turn off the trigger warning label for posts you receive. It is in the settings. I intend to turn mine off for the very reason you discussed. P.S. Use hashtags so more people will see your posts. #BlackMastodon

hereforasec Nov 11, 2022

@knowtheory @mekkaokereke
Current convo about what to call CWs.

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/20117

Rename content warning (CW) to content notice (CN) · Issue #20117 · mastodon/mastodon

Pitch I would suggest to rename content warning to content notice in the mastodon frontend. This would make it more clearly what it is actually used for by many people without changing the meaning ...

GitHub

Greg Price Nov 12, 2022

@hereforasec Very interesting context -- thanks for the link!

Corey Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory I'm a journalist with PTSD who supports content warnings as the term has commonly been understood, but on Mastodon I've been scolded for questioning whether this feature should be used as a subject line on "political" and other posts. If Mastodon Content Warnings are really just subject lines, then Mastodon has no mechanism for effective content warnings.

karin Nov 10, 2022

@coreypein @mekkaokereke @knowtheory I was told in the spec it is called "topic" and if people just called it that I would be fine. People could then use cw: for actual content warnings

It was a poorly thought out interface change, imo

Suvidu Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory I understand that, thank you for explaining. I always felt weird about the term "content warning" on mastodon, but I could not tell why. Now I can.

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory I think there’s an issue to change the name from Content Warning to Content Notice. I still think that’s not the most descriptive option.

Dannyboyguyman Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory if the string 'warning' was replaced with 'screen' and otherwise functioned the same, would that land different or better?

Intuitive Counsellor Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke @knowtheory as a white person I can totally understand & respect your perspective. I also say ‘support’ it too, but I don’t want to offend you accidentally.

Simon Frankau Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke Even a wider "please put CW on politics" feels distasteful to me - too much of the Twitter classic "I follow you for your professional output, not your personal politics" feel.

𒎏Taliaお姉さん 💜 🏳️‍⚧️Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke "content warning" does seem like a good umbrella term for the whole range of "potential trigger" to "spoiler for some ancient TV show". Just because in one context it has mostly been used for more serious topics, it still feels wrong to sort of "monopolise" the term for that context alone.

Sam Watkins Nov 15, 2022

@mekkaokereke If it's some random person asking you to add content warnings, I'd just ignore them or tell them where to go; and if it's the server admin or server rules, find a better server.

It's not a great mechanism, would be better I think if each user can specify how they want to filter their feed and what they want to see or don't, without requiring people to add content warning headers, which isn't reliable anyway.

I haven't used content warnings at all, doesn't seem to be a problem.

Leszek Karlik Nov 10, 2022

There's a GitHub suggestion to rename Content Warning to Content Notice, which makes way more sense: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/20117

Rename content warning (CW) to content notice (CN) · Issue #20117 · mastodon/mastodon

Pitch I would suggest to rename content warning to content notice in the mastodon frontend. This would make it more clearly what it is actually used for by many people without changing the meaning ...

GitHub

Kev Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke "Content Wrapper" works for me

Gustav Lindqvist 🇸🇪Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke I agree, the original name in the ActivityPub spec is subject line and it really should be named that.

The practice can remain the same.

Geoff Hing Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke Also, in my experience with content warnings in other contexts, they are a tool by people with their own experiences, often with trauma, or a deep understanding of those experiences, for others who share those experiences, because the person sharing information knows what it's like to be hit with that info without consent. It's not just a way to avoid having to ever have to engage with certain topics.

Andrew Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke yeah I think if the language around it was more chill, people would be calmer about it.

Also from a more basic pov, it’s an opt-in function, and very often folks aren’t going to remember a feature that’s opt-in.

You could have the same functionality of a CW thing with a required header and having users tap it to reveal the rest of the post.

Dr Luke Davis Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke I think you are spot on with the terminology being the point of contention. But it is, ultimately relative. You will content warn things that you might want to be warned about. A separate issue is the overwhelming presence of YT folk explaining away peoples trauma.

Suvidu Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke I hear often the term "content notes". I like it because it says they tell you what the text is about. For some, this might be a warning, for others an information that sparks interest. People are different, so one person's interest could be another person's trauma. Therefore I can mention 'bird site' and people who are interested can read the whole post.
But I might also really want to avoid the topic.
And I can use it as a warning.
I like content notes.

@mekkaokereke The reader sees "sensitive content" along with whatever explanation the author provided.

I don't think you flag content discussing racism.

But it does help to know in advance if there is a mad face about to be staring back at you if you are autistic and find faces and extreme emotions overwhelming.

Aida Neary Nov 10, 2022

@mekkaokereke that's helpful, thinking about them as "subject line"

moby dickgirl Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke I hope it's okay for me to venture this comment, but do you think it would be accurate to say that Mastodon CWs basically function like tumblr tags?

Viveka Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke beautifully put. In my experience of the instance I’m on: party and electoral politics goes behind a CW, but your lived experience is up to you. Want to spare others facing the same injustice from having to think about it constantly? Your call. Want to spare the feelings of the perpetrators? No need.

okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke "Content Filter" is a much better word.

deafcongress Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke I always thought it should be “content note”. A more neutral term.

mox Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke It's gotten to the point that I can't even tell when people are joking when they're using CW as a generic term for "subject description" here. I saw a CW for "all caps" that I genuinely can't tell was serious. It's an extremely unfortunate appropriation of the term.

KC Lemson Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke I saw someone refer to it as “content wrapper” which is at least an incremental improvement that fits the acronym (which is used in the UI of at least one of the mobile clients that I know of)

Tyler Hayes Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke Thank you for saying this so eloquently, this helped me understand multiple dimensions of the problem I was accepting were there but wasn't quite getting, and I agree with you.

Dianne Hackborn Nov 11, 2022

I think the massive scaling happening here could be helped by some thoughtful UX changes. One I have been thinking of is always displaying the CW box and titling it something like "topic".

Also making replies "Unlisted" by default seems like it would be good, at least until/unless the feed collapses threads.

Chris Shabsin Nov 11, 2022

@hackbod In the protocol, the CW field is actually named "summary" already.

Dianne Hackborn Nov 11, 2022

@cshabsin Yeah I saw that! Though honestly nothing is going to give some people what they want, it's not like it is reasonable for people just talking about their experiences to keep on tagging them "racism" or "sexism" or whatever when what they are writing is part of their life and not something they are intending to explicitly make a big point of.

nadezhda Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke The first day I arrived someone suggested it ought to be Content Wrapper. Subject not warning

Can be used for anything that’s likely to be something people might rather not have in their TL. The example was nerding out over some Star Trek episodes.

Lots of hints that political stuff of any type ought to be in a CW. Obviously hard to enforce when a bunch of political junkies descended during the midterms.

I stick it on Trump or Twitter stuff but not on generic politics

Pete Wright Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke

That’s an perspective I never thought of before.

My reference point for using them was for example - if I was a person recovering from a eating disorder, I would appreciate the CW on a post about food. Or a post about sexual violence and a survivor. Basically giving the person a choice if they want to revisit that trauma or not, which i think is a very real thing for lots peeps here.

That’s just my perspective though and am here to learn.

Steven I. Weiss Nov 11, 2022

Yeah, in trying to mix journalist culture with Mastodon culture, I'm encouraging us to think of it as a headline.

And that honestly makes sense, because headlines exist for a reason.

But "warn me about race" is the wrong message.

Dr.Susan Bushinski Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke agree

witchlectical runeterialist Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke always been a fan of the CN (content notice/note) for that reason. tend to use that for "something you might not want to engage with" and reserve CW for "ok but seriously"

witchlectical runeterialist Nov 11, 2022

@mekkaokereke also tbh id probably ban someone on my instance for being mad about a person of color talking about racism while the complainer is white