Fun to watch the battle of the anonymous US officials in the press.

Here are some anonymous US officials suggesting a sustainable peace deal might be available in winter: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/ukraine-russia-war-winter-diplomacy-rcna56190?icid=election_results

Winter could be diplomatic opportunity in Ukraine-Russia war, U.S. and Western officials say

Ukraine and Russia could have an opportunity for diplomacy as winter arrives and U.S. and Western officials anticipate a potential fighting slowdown in the war.

NBC News
By contrast, here are some other anonymous officials suggesting a sustainable peace deal is still very far off https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/us/politics/ukraine-russia-peace-talks.html
Ukraine Peace Talks Remain Distant Even as Moscow Signals a Retreat

President Biden and European leaders say they cannot push Ukraine and Russia into negotiations, though some U.S. lawmakers are questioning aid for an open-ended war.

DOD seems to be on team "winter peace deal is possible" https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1590500796118228c
State Dept seems to be on team "eh, I don't see it"
My opinion (take it or leave it, you get what you pay for) is that R would definitely go for an operational pause under guise of a ceasefire, but no peace deal would be sustainable until middle of next year at the bare minimum.

NYT on the dispute. Confirms the disagreement between DOD, who think UA have little chance of substantial additional gains over winter and should try and cement gains with an agreement, versus WH/NSC who don't see it that way, and who seem to be very skeptical that negotiations have a realistic chance of success

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/us/politics/biden-ukraine-russia-diplomacy.html?smid=tw-share

@Pwnallthethings in my opinion Ukraine should push in winter as Russian supplies are already to low to cover them properly. Add to that winter and there will be massive failures all over the place. Also Russia would break the ceasefire the second they thought they had enough for an offensive.
@Pwnallthethings Thanks, I was surprised by Milley's comments yesterday.
@Pwnallthethings So ... Ukraine should negotiate to lose part of their country just so that we have "peace"? WTF? That's like the US giving up New Mexico if Mexico invaded or giving up Montana if Canada invaded - all in the name of "peace". Who in their right mind thinks that is the correct thing to do? Idiots! That's who.
@Pwnallthethings I think that UA should get a vote in this.. what do they think and want to do.
@Pwnallthethings in some ways it makes sense. From a DoD perspective RAF has lost all offensive capabilities and likely cannot sustain defensive capabilities. Peace is a logical solution. From a State Dept perspective… the diplomatic situation hasn’t changed and to make matters worse the head of state is directing the military effort.
@Pwnallthethings I agree that they would agree and I am 100% certain they would violate the terms of said cease fire repeatedly. They did this with humanitarian corridors in both Ukraine and Syria.
@Pwnallthethings I don't think any peace deal is likely at all for at least the next 2 years. Assuming Ukraine keeps receiving western military aid
@dmitri Yes. To be clear, my "until next year" isn't so much an "I think one will happen next year" as a "events are messy and I'm not confident about very much at all beyond a year"
@dmitri @Pwnallthethings is there any level of damage the Ukrainians could realistically do to the Russian forces that would force the Russians to the table sooner? Like if we gave the Ukrainians the much talked about ATACMS would that do the job or would that just be more the same?
@tom4okstate @Pwnallthethings Giving and training them on F-16s would probably make the biggest difference right now. I did a podcast on how this can be practically done earlier this summer https://podcast.silverado.org/episodes/analysis-of-the-war-in-ukraine-july-17-2022
Why Giving Ukraine F-16s Makes Sense | Geopolitics Decanted by Silverado

Dmitri Alperovitch talks with Retired UK Air Marshall Greg Bagwell, former Deputy Commander of Operations at RAF Air Command, about how the West can overcome training, logistical, transportation, maintenance, repair and other challenges to provide Ukraine modern aircraft platforms such as F-16s.

Geopolitics Decanted by Silverado

@tom4okstate @dmitri IMO yes. Two key things for getting to negotiations faster is

(a) active irrevocable commitment to supply UA over the long-term at a high rate
(b) demonstrating supply at a rate and capacity that will substantially outmatch any plausible R resupply or regroup.

If we can do both, R will rapidly want to negotiate for the long-term. Less than that, they will hold out on the West to leave or to see how mobilization/force reconstitution pans out.

@Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate I disagree on Russia being willing to negotiate anything but a tactical ceasefire (which would be a win for them). Putin is now all in. He has turned this war into an existential one for his regime
@dmitri @tom4okstate I think he'd find a way to negotiate if there's effective certainty of his continuation being unsuccessful. The problem is we keep holding back support for fear of escalation, which has the perverse effect of signaling to him and those around him that his success on this path is still possible.
@Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate Given how information and advice filters up to him, I don’t see anything that you could do to convince him that he has lost… without actually making him lose
@dmitri @Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate Do you think the concept of winning/losing for him is binary at this point, i.e. that he will push for full control of the „annexed“ regions even at the cost of not being able to hold on to Crimea conventionally? Or is the war existential only insofar as he can‘t lose but not that he has to win?

@LT @Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate Annexation of territory was a “burning of the boats” for him. I don’t see any way back.

Politically he can’t just unannex them and say “Just kidding. Never meant to do that!” So I think he will keep fighting for them until either he succeeds or fails. The latter seems more likely if western military aid to Ukraine does not cease

@dmitri @Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate Yeah, also depends on whether he simply massively miscalculated when "annexing" or if he thinks he can still reconstruct a boat out of the ashes. Probably depends on whether annexation is seen more as aspirational or if annexed regions are really and not just rhetorically considered as part of Russia by rest of the elite I guess.
@dmitri @Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate you probably answered this elsewhere, doubtless multiple times, but are his drastic options more feasible if indeed he is terminally ill? Essentially, has he wedded his regime to the war so much that he'd do anything if death or a full loss of all annexed territory was likely?
@Darrenpauli @Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate There is no evidence he is ill, much less terminally. A lot of wishful thinking out there from amateur TV diagnosis docs…
@dmitri @Pwnallthethings @tom4okstate ugh, thanks, feel a bit foolish as I'd disregarded it as likely bullshit till a masthead like the economist or similar covered it recently. Either way, hope he finds a way to spin some political gymnastics rather than opt for a drastic option should he lose all Ukrainian territory.

@tom4okstate @dmitri @Pwnallthethings the correct question is “is there any level of damage the Ukrainians will write off to let the Russians go in peace?”

From speaking with people the mood has shifted from March/April. Back then it was anger and “fuck the Orcs” and so on. They were upset, but it was anger. Now when I speak to people they have hatred. They are truly furious at Russians and want to see them thoroughly beaten.

My friend who is always saddened over the lives lost in the war, who mourns offensives because people will die. That friend blames Russia and Russians for the war. They are committed to ending Russian occupation and their resolve has only hardened over time.

In war the Enemy gets a vote. For peace, the same. I don’t know if the Ukrainian people will accept any peace that Russia can offer. One mustn’t forget that war is a political activity, and the goal is to achieve victory to enable a political outcome.

The Clausewitz trinity of the Army the Government and the People have to be aligned to wage war. But they also need to be aligned to have peace. If the People demand blood then they will change the government to align with their interests.

What peace terms could Zelensky accept that would be acceptable to the Ukrainian people? Are those terms acceptable to Russia?

War has an underlying physical reality (the events), and the interpretation of that reality (the version).

Strategic narrative is essentially an aspirational version of events which associates the two. If one’s strategic narrative is to defeat the enemy in order to impose a given political outcome on him, one is victorious, or has ‘succeeded’ in today’s parlance, once that is understood to have happened. In this sense, success or failure in war are perceived states in the minds of one’s intended audience. War can be understood as a competition between strategic narratives,

For Clausewitz, although he did not use the term, the definition of ‘strategic audiences’ in war was very straightforward: the first division was between one’s own side and the enemy, according to the principle of polarity; the second division was between the army, people and government within each side (assuming, as Clausewitz did, that the sides were state actors).

In today’s terms these would be seen as ‘strategic audiences’, that is, the groups of people whom strategy seeks to convince of its narrative. Ultimately they are the arbiters of war’s outcome: their perceptions are the strategist’s objective, in terms of influencing them, or of making them irrelevant, in accordance with the intent of policy.

When strategy fails to unify the strategic audiences who are within one’s own side, the state cannot act as a ‘judge’ to provide a coherent verdict of war’s outcome…if victory, or success, is only interpreted as such by one element of the state, it is compromised as a legitimate analysis.

Emile Simpson, “War from the ground up.” p62

@tom4okstate @dmitri @Pwnallthethings crap. The formatting I put in place to show block quotes from “War from the ground up” all got stripped.

Everything after “are those terms acceptable to Russia?” is a block quote.

@dmitri @tom4okstate @Pwnallthethings Twitter has one now! Haha

What I love about here is that I can develop an argument, cite a source and actually include the quotes I want! This would have been a dozen on more tweets. It’s refreshing to have space to do a proper discussion.

Btw, I usually summarise the above argument as, “what peace agreement would the Ukrainians allow Zelensky to sign?” Or, “if Zelensky signed a peace agreement the Ukrainians would toss him out and keep fighting.”

@thegrugq @dmitri @tom4okstate yeah, "what terms do you think zelensky and putin could agree on that would not see them immediately removed from office in their respective nations and war continue by their successors"

@Pwnallthethings @dmitri @tom4okstate I love how everyone removes agency from the Ukrainians. “What peace terms would Europe and the US accept? An analysis…” motherfucker, they don’t get to decide! Certainly they can help influence the outcome of the war by withdrawing support for Ukraine, but they cannot dictate the peace treaty. That’s between Ukraine and Russia, the actual belligerents.

I don’t think peace is possible for a while yet. No one will trust anything Putin says, so why give him a chance to get his military sorted out? The best chance for making Putin’s will irrelevant is now, by keeping the pressure on and never giving him space to recover.

War is like an MMA fight without a referee. Sometimes one fighter has to be choked out because they refuse to tap. That’s Russia.

@thegrugq @Pwnallthethings @dmitri @tom4okstate The Munich Agreement worked so *well*, didn't it? Why not try it again?
@thegrugq @dmitri @Pwnallthethings this is a very interesting and thought provoking comment. Thank you.
@Pwnallthethings iirc Ukraine is pretty open that they’re not going to sign a ceasefire if it only lets Russia regroup and restart their offensive.
@Pwnallthethings "Military believes diplomacy could work, diplomats believe military force could work" strikes again!
@Pwnallthethings Are they mad about their toys being shared, as if they're not getting any new ones?
@theLastTheorist it's a disagreement based on their respective analysts about the short and medium term prospects for UA
@Pwnallthethings conventional wisdom has been that Russia would simply use any operational pause, truce, or peace deal as an opportunity to reconstitute their forces and strike again, right? What would cause that assumption to change? How in the world could Russia be trusted to keep a peace deal of any kind?
@Pwnallthethings Putin did so well honoring the Budapest memorandum

@Pwnallthethings The peace wars?

Russian atrocities and terror bombings seems Kremlin's cry for peace. "We know we can't win this war, let there be peace, love, and understanding. Give to us everything we want out of the pure goodness of your heart, or we will crush you and everyone you care about."