"Denial is why we are doing it again. We have a president who is killing people now. There is blood all over his hands."
James Lee Burke on Chaucer, Violence, and the State of America
https://crimereads.com/james-lee-burke-on-chaucer-violence-and-the-state-of-america/
#AuthorInterview by David Masciotra via Crime Reads
Author Interview: Lui Petri
https://twimom227.com/2026/02/author-interview-lui-petri.html
Author Spotlight: Horror Author PD Alleva
PD Alleva is a native New Yorker, award winning author, psychotherapist and hypnotist writing profound, in-depth horror, scifi, and psychological thriller stories. His latest release, The Sleepy Hollow Incident, is a gothic horror story wrapped in a suspenseful crime thriller that features the classic Faustian Bargain. To learn more about PD or his latest release, visit the author at pdalleva.com or follow him on social media.
Author Links:
Website: pdalleva.com
The Sleepy Hollow Incident Series: KU (US)
The Sleepy Hollow Incident Series: KU (UK)
The Sleepy Hollow Incident: Limited Edition Signed and Numbered Print Books
PDâs Alternative Fiction Newsletter (FREE weekly horror stories): pdsalternativefiction.substack.com
Facebook Page: /pdallevaauthor
Amazon: /pdalleva
Instagram: @pdalleva_author
TikTok: @pds_alternative_fiction
Goodreads: P_D_Alleva
Bookbub: /p-d-alleva
Weâre here to spotlight your occult/supernatural Gothic Horror series, The Sleepy Hollow Incident. Can you tell us what inspired this series, and share your influences?
100%. Let me provide a brief background to the evolution of the story first. I first wrote the story as a screenplay in the late 90s, then as a novel in the early 2000s. Unfortunately, they were lost in what I refer to as the great laptop tragedy of 2005.
Now, letâs come back to the present. Needless to say, Iâve always been intrigued by the Faustian bargain (when someone sells their soul for immediate gain) and have always wanted to write such a novel. I find it intriguing to explore the reasons someone would agree to sell their soul and thanks to some fantastic teachers I was influenced at an early age by the Faustian bargain concept, including stories such as: The Devil and Daniel Webster by Stephen Vincent Benet; The Devil and Tom Walker by Washington Irving; Young Goodman Brown by Nathaniel Hawthorne; the OG, Faust by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe; and my favorite, Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury.
However, what I didnât want to do was to allow the Faustian bargain to be about greed or power or control. Honestly, Iâm a bit of a drama boy and enjoy a good love story (Iâll even go out on a limb here and admit that Iâve read multiple Nicholas Sparks books lol). To me, love is as good a reason to enter a Faustian bargain as any, although the bargain takes on an entirely new meaning when that soul is sold so that someone else can live, breathe, or be successful. Now thatâs true love, IMO. This is where romance and romantic nature became an enormous influence.
Specifically, two movies (books too, although thatâs a different story) were a large influence on the story. Francis Ford Coppolaâs Bram Stokerâs Dracula was one, and The Princess Bride is the other. Additional influences also included: Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier, The Witching Hour series by Anne Rice, Shirley Jacksonâs The Haunting of Hill House (also once I realized I was writing a series, the Netflix series was a huge influence) and The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson. Youâll definitely get to experience the Jekyll and Hyde influence in the story.
Allow me to introduce you to the green fairies in a bottle of absinthe, although youâll see the influences from all the above as youâre reading. Of course, I would be remiss if I didnât mention Washington Irvingâs The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. I grew up in the area and lived in Sleepy Hollow for some time. Obviously, the story and the city had a large influence on the novel.
Although The Sleepy Hollow Incident has nothing to do with the Headless Horseman, Washington Irving himself plays a crucial role in the backstory, which were some of the most fun scenes to write. I found it very existential. Plus, the backstory fits perfectly into the New England Gothic horror subgenre. With the exception that Sleepy Hollow is in New York, not New England (maybe they should call it Northeastern Gothic Horror?) weâve got all the elements that make the genre spectacular.
Bleak isolated landscapes, dark woods, old houses (mansions in this case), inherited curses, repressed desires, madness, isolation, witches, ghosts, demons, ancient evils intertwined with historical events (thank you Washington Irving), dread, mystery, decay, emotional suppression and characters who are tortured souls confronting ancestral sins and societal horrors. All the significant elements of the subgenre. Or what I refer to as all-encompassing gothic storytelling.
Gothic Horror novels are very often standalones â what inspired you to create a quadrilogy rather than a single book, was this planned from the outset or something that emerged organically from your writing process?
The process emerged organically from the writing process. Keep in mind that each book ends with a cliffhanger, and the following book continues from the cliffhanger. More of a serial than a series, or rather, one massive book to indulge reader appetites for gothic horror wrapped in a suspenseful supernatural crime thriller with a supporting cast that steals the show.
I knew after writing Part II that the story would take some time to unfold. Splitting the story into four books and publishing as a rapid release seemed like a no-brainer from that point on. Plus, being an unknown indie, I didnât want to scare off new readers with a book that was over 1200 pages. Iâm not Stephen King (yet lol).
What made you settle on the winter of 1997 as the setting for the first book in the series? What is it about the late 1990s that lent itself to the story you wanted to tell?
Iâm a child of the 90s. I turned 15 y/o in 1990, and honestly, the 90s were outstanding, especially with the grunge movement that came out of nowhere (although itâd been brewing for some time).
I was a punk-rocking, plaid-wearing, mosh-pit-loving grungehead, and I loved it. Then Kurt pulled the trigger, corporate greed took over grunge, and the world entered a state of paranoia with the upcoming new millennium (anyone remember the Y2K insanity?).
The world was on a downward spiral into what we see everyday today. 1997 (or the late 90s) also saw the rise of the internet and cell phones (they were around earlier than 1997 but became mainstream around this time) and Amazon was becoming the global juggernaut it is today (Amazon first went public in 1997).
During that time, I remember thinking how things were undoubtedly changing, although I couldnât have predicted where we would be now. Itâs a completely different world. The Sleepy Hollow Incident is very similar. It starts off with a bang (think Nirvanaâs Smells Like Teen Spirit premiering on MTV) then turns into its innocence (the awesome grunge era) before being dragged through the fog-drenched turmoil of paranoia, heartache and anguish while holding on for dear life because you have no idea what the future will bring.
Yeah, the 90s seemed like the perfect backdrop for the story, incorporating all the above elements into the narrative to elicit a profound emotional response within the reader.
How does your background as a psychotherapist play into your love of Gothic Horror particularly, and how do you use this training to develop your characters/themes/plots?
I need to turn this question inside out first. My love of gothic horror was there long before I sat in the therapistâs chair. If anything, being a writer (understanding the human condition and being able to read people through observation and interpretation) aided in my success as a therapist (I hope thatâs not too strange, but if it is⊠whatever!).
But to answer your question in more detail, Iâve always seen Gothic horror as psychological horror that bolsters atmosphere to reflect the emotional turmoil of the characters while eliciting an emotional response within the reader.
I use many psychology trainings to develop sound character backgrounds that develop into belief systems for each character. I always ask what each characterâs belief system includes.
People react and make choices based on their belief systems. Belief systems are also what keep people blind to alternative suggestions, theories and possibilities. Itâs when the truth must be confronted and accepted that genuine change occurs. We either give in and give up or give in and get up at that point.
Thereâs no two ways about it, but as a writer, torturing my characters with such concepts really is all the fun. Seeing how they respond to adversity and tragedy reflects the heart of each character and the human condition.
From a psychological perspective, why do you think the Gothic is having a resurgence today, and also what is the allure of the Gothic for you personally?
I believe Gothic literature is having a resurgence because people are looking for a story that is as profound as it is entertaining. They crave depth as much as they crave excitement. Intelligence as much as simplicity.
Gothic literature incorporates all the above. I refer to it as brutal, beautiful, and exhilarating. Who wouldnât want to read such a story? Itâs a downright overall satisfying reader experience. Although I canât speak for everyone, when I read a book, I want everything in it I listed above.
I want an experience that elicits profound emotions, thoughts, and contemplations. I always say that the crux of literature is to put on display the depths of the human condition and the perils of society (entertainment first of course but depth is just as important) and I donât see any genre out there that does that better than horror (gothic horror specifically).
When people are confronted with pure evil (supernatural or not) how they react is a direct correlation to the human condition. This is the allure of Gothic horror for me personally. The psychological toll the characters endure coupled with atmospheric dread creates one awesomely chilling reader experience.
What has been your favourite reader takeaway from the books so far, and can you share some of your favourite endorsements/reviews/reader comments?
What I love to read most is when readers write about how the writing was so vivid that they could see the scenes playing out in their minds. IMO, if you donât feel like youâre walking through Sleepy Hollow while reading the book, I did not do my job.
In the story, Sleepy Hollow itself is a character, and it was important to me to present the town with a positive vibe (despite all the carnage and chaos). Also, when readers say that they were hooked from book one and just had to keep reading is a satisfying takeaway. These types of comments and reviews make writing such a project even more satisfying.
I wrote the book as a crime thriller. The fact that the story moves a mile a minute (once Part Two begins and the crime thriller portion of our story escalates), keeping the reader not just engaged but enthralled throughout the entire story was very important to me, so reader comments about the fast pace of the story are quite satisfying.
Iâve also had the privilege of the book being reviewed by a few authors whose opinions I truly respect and take to heart.
Hereâs a few:
âDripping with atmosphere. Bursting with brutality. Humming with magical mystery. The Sleepy Hollow Incident is an alluring, twisted journey of death, desire, and sacrifice.â ~ Felix Blackwell, author of Stolen Tongues.
âA deft blend of gothic vibes, historical fiction, and crime thriller.â ~ Ben Young, author of Home.
âPD Allevaâs The Sleepy Hollow Incident is a mixing pot of terrorâa healthy dose of gothic, a dash of demonic, and enough gore and body horror to shock and delight readers!â âViggy Parr Hampton, author of The Rotting Room
âP. D. Alleva spreads fresh seed on well-trod ground with The Sleepy Hollow Incident. Thereâs certainly a tip of the hat to the giants of American gothic literature here including ghosts, dark pacts, and tragic romance, on display with ornate prose. Placing the story in the midst of a more modern police procedural puts a unique and voraciously readable spin on the familiar tropes weâve loved for centuries. By the time you read the last lines youâll be losing your head for more.â ~ Caleb Jones, author of Red Pill Paradise.
âThis book 1 is utterly terrifying! I felt physically tense reading it. The imagery is incredible, you can Feel the Storm rolling in, building and raging. This is honestly the scariest book I have read in years!â ~ Alexandrea Christianson, Author of Zombies Dead Clown Apocalypse
âDark, brooding, and deeply atmospheric, The Sleepy Hollow Incident is a supernatural gothic tale that sinks its claws in from the first page and doesnât let go. P.D. Alleva masterfully blends elements of horror and romance, offering readers a chilling look at love and sacrifice.â ~ Kayla Frederick, author of The Residency.
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Author Spotlight: Sci-Fi Author Anna Verner
Anna (she/her) is a fantasy and horror author. She published her first book The Assassins Raven about a female assassin last year, and has had one short story and one flash fiction published in magazines this year.
Author Links:
Itch Shop: anna-verner.itch.io
Bluesky: @annavernerauthor.bsky.social
Cover by: Stephen Brown @stephenart.bsky.socialYour latest book, The Kingâs Raven, completes the duology that started with The Assassinâs Raven. Can readers pick up Book 2 then read Book 1 as a prequel, or do you recommend reading in order of release?
It will need to be read in order of release. Only because a lot of characters and things that happen in the plot fully come together in the end of the first book. The last chapter of The Assassins Raven leads straight on into the first chapter of The Kingâs Raven. I will however, have a plot summary of The Assassins Raven at the start of The Kingâs Raven, just in case.
How do you balance the genres of cosy fantasy with horror elements? Would you say this is cosy Dark Fantasy or Fantasy-Horror, and what were your influences for this?
It is hard to balance it out when there is a complex mix of both, and I am never sure which way my books fit best. In this story people or monsters are getting killed, which can be very sombre, but there are other scenes that are very light. I love Horror Comedies, so I think it was definitely influenced watching movies like Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Cabin in the Woods. Horrible things are happening, but it can also be kind of funny.
What made you choose an Elf as your main character, and what was your character design/development process for Raven?
I wanted to portray Elves a bit differently and see what happened. I also thought it was interesting to begin a story from the Elvesâ perspective and not having any real knowledge of Humans.
I started putting Raven together when I created a scene where Raven has to figure out a way to kill someone at a party amongst lots of people. As soon as I knew how she would do it, her personality, look, temperament, all grew from there.
How did you develop your worldbuilding for the duology â are you a world-first writer, or does it develop organically alongside or after your characters form, or something else?
I am not much of a world builder. The world came after I created my characters, especially when the characters began travelling. That is what started me thinking about their world, what they would see, what animals and people would they meet along the way?
Can you share your favourite line from The Kingâs Raven out of context, and share a little bit of your writing routine with us?
âOf course they donât like working down there! Itâs a fucking mine!â Replies the King, angrily. (sorry for the swear, but I think it makes the scene funnier).
I like to write in the afternoon, that is when I find myself with some quiet time. I try to write for a couple of hours every day, but sometimes other things get in the way!
What has been your favourite reader response so far?
My favourite response has been from readers telling me they were fully surprised by the ending of The Assassins Raven and piecing it all together.
Character art by Noah William @itsbitcrush.bsky.social Get the bookMore Posts to Explore:
Author Interview Transcript: S. T. [Saint] Gibson
In this episode of the podcast, I got to chat to S. T. / Saint Gibson, author of A DOWRY OF BLOOD. The interview discusses the themes of DOWRY, the novel DRACULA and its various adaptations, including the infanticidal nature of the brides in those versions, and may contain spoilers for films like Van Helsing (1992).
Author Bio
S. T. Gibson is an author represented by Tara Gilbert of the Jennifer De Chiara literary agency, and a literary agent and subsidiary rights manager for Spielburg Literary Agency.
Saint Gibson was born in California and raised in the deep South before moving up to moody New England. Prior to joining Speilburg, she worked as an assistant acquisitions editor at Tantor Media and as a ghostwriter of contemporary romance novels. She holds a bachelorâs degree in Creative Writing from The University of North Carolina at Asheville, and a masterâs degree in Theological Studies from Princeton Theological Seminary.
Connect with Saint via:
Website: stgibson.com
Instagram: stgibsonauthor
Twitter: s_t_gibson
Newsletter: saint.substack.com
Introduction
CMR: So welcome back to Eldritch Girl, and today I have Saint Gibson with me. I apologise for my very scratchy voiceâŠ
STG: Thatâs ok!
CMR: Iâm getting over a very bad cold, so. Itâs not â itâs not the plague.
STG: Itâs not the plague, thank goodness itâs not the plague.
[laughter]
CMR: Hi Saint, would you like to introduce yourself?
STG: Hi, yeah, my name is Saint, I am an author of Gothic romance and fantasy, I currently live in Boston with my fiancĂ© and my spoiled Persian cat and Iâm also a tarot reader, and my book, A DOWRY OF BLOOD is a dark and dreamy Draculaâs Brides retelling thatâs been out since about January or February of this year (2021), so about six months.
A Dowry of Blood by S. T. Gibson (Nyx Publishing, 2021)CMR: Amazing. And I think youâre going to read an extract for us.
STG: Yeah, I am! Iâm excited, absolutely. So a little bit of context: DOWRY is narrated by Draculaâs first wife, and so the âyouâ that sheâs referring to in the first couple sentences of this, the man sheâs talking to, is Dracula. And she is meeting another woman who Draculaâs trying to make his second bride and thatâs where we pick up the story.
CMR: Brilliant. This is one of my favourite parts.
STG: Yeah? Itâs the ballroom scene.
CMR: Yeah, I love it! Sorry. Continue!
STG: Thank you! No, it makes me happy.
Extract from A DOWRY OF BLOOD by S. T. Gibson
I found you among the crowd, looking handsome and impassable in your black doublet and jerkin trimmed with gold. I sank into my place on your arm, suddenly feeling exhausted. The night had just begun, but I wanted to curl up and sleep it all away.
âYou look lovely,â you said, smoothing your knuckle over my cheek as though nothing was wrong, as though Magdalena didnât exist. For a moment, under the scorching weight of your unadulterated attention, I felt like I was the only person in the world.
Maybe it wouldnât be terrible, a treacherous thought offered, to share you with another if you still looked at me like that when we were alone.
Magdalena was leading the dance, a prim and provincial series of turns and bows. She darted in between her partners, lightly brushing hands and shoulders in a complex series of touches. Every so often, her dark eyes flickered over to you.
âDance with me,â you said, already leading me out onto the floor. I didnât protest. I was happy to have something to do with myself instead of gape at the proceedings like a fish swimming through strange waters. I held your hand lightly and let you lead me through the first steps of the dance, quickly correcting my form by watching the gentry swirling around me. The world was a swirl of skirts and feathered hats, moving faster and faster as the musicians picked up speed.
Even surrounded by the flowering beauties of Spain, Magdalenaâs loveliness was undeniable. She cut through the crowd like a shark darting through shallow waters, her teeth bared with laughter. She never missed a step, and never stayed with one partner for long. Every inch of her, from the soft curve of her cheek to the sharp line of her jaw, tormented me.
âDo you want her?â you asked, the words almost snatched away by the whirl of the crowd.
âWhat?â
We came back together, your hand a vice around mine. In the golden light of the hall, your eyes burned. I only ever saw that fire in your eyes when you were on the precipice of devouring something. It was all expectation and want.
âDo you want Magdalena for your own? To be your companion by day and warm your bed by night?â
Jealousy slithered up my throat as quick as a snake. But there was some other emotion mingled in, dark and sweet. Desire.
âDo you?â I asked, skirts snapping around my ankles as you twirled me. The whole world was turning, tilting on its axis.
âOurs is a solitary existence. It would be good for you to have a friend. A sister. I have never forbidden you from taking lovers, Constanta. Remember that.â
You made it sound like a gift, a gentle reminder of my own freedom. But I heard your double meaning: do not deny me this.
I opened my mouth but the words faltered. I didnât know what I wanted. My heart, whipped into a frenzy by the wine and the dancing and the gleam of Magdalenaâs dark eyes, felt torn in two directions.
I never got the chance to answer you. We were torn apart by the demands of the dance. I was sent spinning into another manâs arms while you crossed to Magdalena, slipping in beside her as close as her own shadow. No one could deny the light radiating from her face when she looked at you, like the halo of gold on a holy icon. Her cheeks were flushed pink from the vigorous dance, tantalizing proof of the hot lifeblood pulsing just beneath the surface of her skin.
How can I blame you for wanting her, my lord, when I wanted her so badly myself?
I strained to see over the shoulder of my partner as he turned me in dizzying circles. Older than me, handsome, with a healthy tan on his brown skin that told me his blood would taste like ripening summer apricots and the dust of a well-travelled road. I barely saw him, barely registered the appreciative smile on his face.
All I saw were you and Magdalena, two lovely devils indulging in a little human revelry. Your hand fit perfectly into the curve of her back. Her elegant, sloping neck invited admiration as though she already knew what you were, as though she were teasing you.
You lowered your mouth down by her ear, lips brushing the lobe as you spoke, something private and urgent. A slow smile spread onto Magdalenaâs face as she clutched you closer. What were you telling her? Our secret? Or a more carnal proposition?
My feet faltered over the demanding steps of the dance, and I broke the tight circle of my partner and Iâs bodies. He tried to coax me back, the cadence of his Spanish insisting that there was nothing to be embarrassed about, that we should try again. But I brushed him off, took a few staggering steps further onto the dancefloor. The couples whirled past me like exotic birds winging by in a flurry of feathers, and my stomach clenched. I like I was slipping out of my own body and floating above it, observing myself as a spectacle.
Then there was a small touch on my arm and I turned to see Magdalena, smiling that wry smile at me with her hair coming loose from its elaborate styling. There was a bloom across her chest, a slight sheen of sweat gleaming at her hairline. She looked like she had just stepped out of an opium dream, all blown pupils and reddened mouth.
âYour excellency,â I breathed, my heart suddenly in my mouth. âYou will forgive me. I do not know the steps of this dance.â
Moving with shameless deliberateness, Magdalena cupped my jaw in her hand and kissed me full on the mouth. Not the light touch of a friendâs kiss catching the corner of my lips, but a kiss full of intention and warmth. My head swam as though I had just emptied a whole glass of wine, the entire frantic room falling away. It only lasted an instant, but by the time she pulled away, I was completely inebriated.
âThen I shall teach you,â she proclaimed, and took my hands in her own. âDo you want to lead? Or shall I?â
I stammered foolishly, throwing my eyes wildly around the room.
Magdalena threw her head back and laughed, a beautiful wolf savoring the terror of a rabbit.
âMe, then. Itâs as easy as breathing. One foot and then the other. And donât overthink it.â We moved together across the floor, fluid and unified. If any of her subjects had seen the kiss, they hid their disapproval well, restraining themselves to gossiping behind spread fans. No one stared or reeled in shock, merely continued with their dancing and drinking, eyes politely averted. As well-trained as her servants, then. This must not have been the most scandalous behavior they had seen from Magdalena.
âYou must never overthink any good and pleasurable thing,â Magdalena went on, her cheek almost pressed to mine as we twirled. The wine on her breath was sweet as blackcurrants. I wanted to taste it on her lips as much as I wanted to taste it in her veins. âWe should never deny ourselves any pleasure in this life.â
I could almost hear you in those words. Had you coached her, I wondered? No, there hadnât been enough time. Maybe she really was a soul after your own likeness.
We glided together until the song was done and then, out of breath and giggling from our exertion, then raised our hands in applause with the rest of the crowd. The musicians bowed, mopping sweat from their foreheads.
Magdalena tucked her arms though mine and led me with deliberate steps through the crowd, leaning over conspiratorially.
âYou must sit with me tonight at dinner. I must have you close, Constanta. I want us to be the best of friends.â
~ A Dowry of Blood extract reproduced with permission of the author, S. T. Gibson (2021)Interview Transcript
CMR: Oh, I love it.
STG: Thank you.
CMR: I love that. The whole premise of the book is so good, like itâs just such an interesting dynamic between them and itâs a really good character driven story.
And so, when did when did you first read DRACULA, which is the the source material for it, and which versions or adaptations of that were the most influential for you, when you developed DOWRY as an idea?
STG: Yeah so I first read DRACULA when I was in high school, I was probably about 15 or 16. We had to read it in my English literature class, and I remember liking FRANKENSTEIN way more than DRACULA.
DRACULA was not my favourite initially, but it really captured my imagination, because itâs such a strange book like just a lot of weird things happen and a lot of things arenât totally explained, and you have these really compelling characters. I think that DRACULA is on one hand a cautionary tale about female sexuality and the âliberated womanâ in a way, but itâs also has these really compelling female characters.
Like Mina is so strong in her own way and itâs really, really interesting, so I was definitely intrigued by Dracula, but I just became like a vampire enthusiast in high school and I still am like I call myself a vampire apologist. I got really into Anne Rice, who I still very much and admire⊠I admire her body of work and kind of the role that she plays in the literary canon. And I got into a lot of DRACULA adaptations, so I think that DOWRY is actually more a response to DRACULA in the pop culture imagination than it is a response to Bram Stoker.
Thereâs definitely Easter eggs about the book in DOWRY and it derives its inspiration from the Dracula mythos, but for me that was made a lot more of an impression on me through like the Coppola Dracula film (1992), and honestly the 2004 Van Helsing film.
CMR: YES.
STG: If anyone has spoken to me they know that I love that movie itâs â if you havenât seen it, the 2004 Van Helsing film is like a creature feature with like, Dracula, the brides, and werewolves and Frankenstein, that has Hugh Jackman in it, and itâs this like action adventure fantasy film. But I remember watching it when I was like 12, quite young I think, before I even read DRACULA. And you have these three like, just, gorgeous women who are so over-the-top dramatic and chewing the scenery, and they have this interesting dynamic with Dracula in the movie like, they kind of have their little lovers spats and they have this very passionate connection and itâs like a itâs a polyamorous harem you know, and I remember watching that when I was like 12 and being like, okay, I want to be in a poly vampire harem, like that sounds pretty good.
Richard Roxburgh as Dracula with the Brides: Aleera, played by Elena Anaya, Marishka played by Josie Maran, and Verona played by Silvia CollocaSo I think that, like I said a lot of what a diary of blood is doing is responding to Dracula movies, is also responding to Dracula Untold (2014) which I donât necessarily recommend, itâs not my favourite one, but I was really excited for it when it came out. And thereâs a scene in Dracula Untold where thereâs a close up on a dying village girl after thereâs been a war, and I was like oh my God sheâs going to be the bride, like heâs gonna heâs gonna turn her into a bride, and thatâs not what movie went at all, but thatâs what I decided to do with the book so that one frame inspired like, all of content.
So thatâs just some of the inspirations and then there was many more like stage adaptations, the stage adaptation of Dracula, the Dracula musical and also musicals like Moulin Rouge and Elisabeth the German-language musical were huge influences as well.
CMR: Amazing. I love that Van Helsing film I watched it so many times.
STG: Itâs my comfort watch, I just watched it last week again!
CMR: I love the Francis Ford Coppola version as well, I think it is so aesthetically beautiful. And Luke Evans did a really good job of Dracula Untold, I was really sad that theyâre not going to do the Universal Studios monster reboot.
STG: I know! Me too!
CMR: It was such a good idea! I was like, oh no! And I think I know the frame that you mean.
STG: Yeah! No, itâs just kind of a lingering frame and I was like oh â this is where we meet the brides⊠itâs like heâs gonna take these women from his country and turn them into the brides and that didnât happen, he was in love with his, you know about his wife, which was a beautiful love story, itâs very touching, but I thought I was going to get the vampire brides and Iâm all about the brides. Iâve been on the bridesâ side since I was 12 years old watching Van Helsing like I get so sad when they die every time.
CMR: Yeah, absolutely. I think itâs interesting when you have something that so obviously like a polyamorous dynamic and then some adaptations go no weâre not going to deal with that we want to focus on that the you know, Mina as reincarnated wife.
STG: Yeah, exactly.
CMR: That sort of⊠so itâs that One True Love dynamicâŠ
STG: Right.
CMR: âŠwhich is a really lovely trope.
STG: No, I love that trope and itâs such a classic of vampire movies and vampire literature, but I do find it interesting how in a lot of the adaptations â and I think this is why the Van Helsing one is so compelling to me â in a lot of the adaptations, we do meet the brides and they get their awesome introduction and theyâre always stunningly beautiful and like, fangs and blood and itâs this great vampire moment⊠But they donât often interact with Dracula very much. They donât really interact with Dracula very much in the Coppola adaptation. They donât really interact with Dracula very much in the stage musical. Like they might have a couple of lines with one another, but it kind of is like he just heâs like, of course, I have a harem, Iâm like hereâs my harem, Iâm like⊠Iâm a villain.
But in the Van Helsing movie they have all this banter and they like kind of go back and forth and have like lovers quarrels and embrace each other and actually seem like theyâre in a relationship, and that was so compelling to me when I was when I was young. Itâs very campy itâs very over the top. But thereâs some genuine moments of connection there that I was just really intrigued by and I wanted them to write an entire book that was just about the bridesâ intimate relationships with each other and with Dracula.
CMR: Iâm trying to think of any other adaptations that do that as well and I donât think there is like, and I was thinking about the Hammer Horror franchise with Christopher Lee who ends up with â he doesnât have â he tends to only have one bride a time in those. And then he goes after the village girls, but they again like thereâs still like The Vampire Girl, thereâs not like â they didnât give him a whole host of vampire bride-girls. Even in the Hammer adaptation of DRACULA â ostensibly of DRACULA, which was a very loose adaptation, he still only had that one bride, and she only existed for the Harker figure to try and rescue her and fail. And that was like, the whole point.
And so the brides tend to get reduced to â I think a lot of adaptations, the brides get reduced to either these caricatures of the damsel in distress you canât rescue, and thatâs an inverted thing where the hero tries to rescue them but ends up in danger because itâs like a honey-trap thingâŠ
STG: Exactly.
CMR: Or theyâre just very decorative, and theyâre very sad. Like in the Bela Lugosi version, the three are dressed in those diaphanous nightgowns, and youâve got them coming in through the French windows and thereâs, for some reason⊠Oh, because of the censors isnât it, you couldnât have rats so they had possums all over the castle instead. Have you seen this version, the 1931?
STG: No I have not.
CMR: The 1931 is an absolutely beautiful film, black and white, and they couldnât show⊠they were doing things with cameras that that you couldnât do you know, nobody had ever done before, so you have walking through a cobweb that is stretched all the way across the stairwell just because they could, so the cobweb remains intact, because they used magical camera trickery. [laughs]
STG: Oh, thatâs so cool.
CMR: And they werenât allowed, because of the censors, to show blood and they werenât allowed to show fangs, and they werenât allowed to show ratsâŠ
STG: Thatâs very essential to a DRACULA interpretation!
CMR: Thereâs this close-up on his mouth, just before he opens his mouth, and itâs the anticipation, and then it fades to black. And itâs done so well. And you know exactly whatâs going to happen because everybody knows that Dracula is a vampire, so you can imagine that. But yes, so they had the brides in opaque nightwear, obviously, because of censorship, but sort of floor length and with the ruffles up to their necks and they still managed to look incredibly sensuous, but they donât have any lines.
STG: Well the brides often donât speak. I think theyâre kind of â I think the brides are this institution from film-making, when you make a DRACULA adaptation, you feel like you have to have the brides. Even in campy ones like Dracula 2000 [also titled Dracula 2001, a Wes Craven film version] you do have some brides and I guess they do have some lines in that, but they donât play a huge part. But I think, part of potentially what happens in adaptations is like â and this, I think, is in the text as well â thereâs this Madonna/Whore complex almost, where the brides are like hypersexualized devious women that are frightening and scary, and then you have the more â the honourable Victorian human woman who is being tempted with sexuality and who is trying to fight off the vampirism which is more sexual and more embodied, but the brides are always just like these really sensual creatures and that might be part of the reason why they have not been totally fleshed out sometimes, because itâs easier to make them sexy window-dressing.
CMR: Which is interesting, because in the book, theyâre the inversions of motherhood, because they eat babies.
STG: They eat babies, yeah exactly.
CMR: They literally eat babies, and thatâs exactly what happens to Lucy instead of becoming the archetypical wife and mother, which is her projected pathway after sheâs chosen one of her suitors, because she has three suitors â Lucyâs always struck me as the female version of Dracula, because she also-
STG: -ALSO HAS THREE SUITORS, EXACTLY-
CMR: and sheâs just like, âoh I wish I could marry all of them, oh how scandalousâ and nobodyâs played with that in adaptations either.
STG: No.
CMR: I think Francis Ford Coppola does in that version but generally a lot of the adaptations ignore that part of Lucy, and try to make her⊠or, in the â31 version, sheâs, sheâs kind of a flapper.
STG: Oh, interesting.
CMR: Yeah and sheâs got the short bobbed blonde hair, very short cut, whereas Mina is a bit more conservative, and wears more conservative evening dresses. Whereas Lucy is coded kind of as a Good Time Girl, kind of, but affluent. But itâs really interesting to look at the costume differences and that kind of thing, so that starts to do something with that. But then Lucy goes off and starts eating children.
STG: Mmhm, yeah, exactly. You have that terrifying shot in the Coppola version where she turns around in her vampiric wedding shroud and sheâs holding the baby, you know, like the child.
CMR: Yeah. Yeah and I think thatâs actually what I like about the Van Helsing version is that they arenât â well, they are also baby eating monsters, but they want their own kids.
STG: Itâs a vampire infertility story.
CMR: Thatâs the whole â I donât think weâre spoiling the film, that is the premise of the film.
STG: Yeah, thatâs the whole point of the film, theyâre trying to have vampire babies.
CMR: Yeah.
STG: Which is this like, very â I canât â people always, like, when they poke holes in vampire stories, they usually bring up issues of fertility or with marriage and children. But I donât see a lot of movies that are like letâs build a mythos around this, and so in the Van Helsing movies the children â the vampire children â who are monstrous, because the vampires have sexy human forms and then monster forums, the vampire children are born dead theyâre born undead, and Draculaâs trying to bring them to life using Frankensteinâs technology. Thereâs a lot going on this film.
CMR: There is a lot going on in this film.
STG: Like you said, itâs an inversion of the trope. Itâs also theyâre allowed â the brides in that movie, even though they have a relatively small part â are allowed to want things and are allowed to be sexy and scary but also we see them grieving when one of the brides dies, we see them grieving when they canât get their children to come to life. We see them arguing with their spouse Dracula and trying to salvage their relationship, really. Itâs a âmarriage in troubleâ story, which is one of my favourite tropes, is a marriage in trouble.
On Developing the Brides as Characters
CMR: So, how did you then start to develop each of the brides in terms of creating their personalities, when you were first fleshing out the ideas? I really like Alexi as well heâs one of my favouritesâŠ
STG: Heâs a fan favourite.
CMR: Yeah oh heâs so sweet, I⊠I canât choose between them really, like I go through phases of liking each like deciding which one I like best. So why did you choose to make Alexi one of the brides and you know, did you think about basing them around archetypes or⊠you know, that kind of thing?
STG: I was definitely working with archetypes when I went to create the brides. I think first of all, when I sat down to write this book, I was like youâre doing a Dracula book. And that felt like a really big undertaking and it felt like stepping into really big shoes, and so I was like donât try to do everything. Donât try to address every plot point just build it from the ground up the way you want to do it and just write the characters you want to write so itâs not like I freed myself from having to be like this is my take on vampires like totally this is everything I think and believe and how I would have written it like itâs not that. So that gave me a lot of freedom with the characters and I could build them from the ground up like thereâs no â thereâs no Mina figure thereâs no Lucy figure, like theyâre kind of my own creations, and so I worked with archetypes initially to do that, I think that, like, when I started out, Con[stanta]⊠[short pause] Thereâs three brides, Constanta, Magdalena and Alexi, in order of when Dracula acquires them, and Constanta the first bride is kind of a response to the Anne Rice vampires who are very existentially and religiously tormented. And I would read those books when I was younger and be like I really wish there was like a vampire that had this intense inner world and intense sense of like, existential and spiritual meaning that wasnât just like, âI am a damned preacher and God hates meâ.
Constanta has a very complicated relationship with existence and morality and God and she kind of lives in the grey areas, she isnât like⊠she doesnât, she doesnât necessarily think sheâs a bad person or a good person. She doesnât necessarily⊠like sheâs still very faithful person, even though she is not sure what she thinks about God and religion.
So she was kind of a response to that the the vampire that has existential angst. She was my response to that, and the way that I would have wanted to have a conversation with that trope.
Magdalena initially is just kind of like the beautiful sadist like she is this glittering gleaming noblewoman who can be very cruel and very firm when she needs to be, and she takes to be a vampire very well, and she doesnât have the same moral hang-ups about killing that Constanta does. But thereâs a lot of depth to her, so I really liked that archetype. She very much â I think Magdalena is the most classically a vampire bride. Sheâs gorgeous, sheâs hyperfeminine, sheâs got sharp teeth, sheâs going to eat you, sheâs going to love it, but I wanted to go deeper than just like the beautiful sadist trope and so she also has kind of a complex inner world.
She deals with depression and mania, and she doesnât just kill for sport blindly, like she kind of â she and Constanta have their own feelings about murdering, basically. And so I wanted to have a bride that really was just that fun sexy scary vampire bride but who had a lot of depth and heart to her as well and felt like a real person.
And then Alexi is a play on Dorian Gray really, is what he is. Thereâs a quote at the beginning of the book where like Constanta listing the reasons why she thinks that Dracula kept all the brides around, and she says Magdalena for her brilliance, me for my perseverance, and Alexi for his loveliness.
So Alexi is just like this beautiful young man in love with life, so heâs the hedonist, heâs the Oscar Wilde character, heâs the Dorian Gray, in love with life, making friends with everyone, wants to have all the pleasure in the world, wants to live on and never die and party all the time, which is another vampire archetype you get in Lost Boys (1987) and things like that, so he was a response to that archetype.
So basically itâs like you have the institution of the Anne Rice vampire, the classical vampire bride, and then the Dorian Gray hedonist sort of figure. And I started there and then I explored them all and their interaction with one another and deepened the characters from there.
And so you asked about Alexi, who is a fan favourite⊠I love my boy. And I â that was just a whim, I was like I want one of the brides to be a guy. I knew when I sat down to write this that I wanted it to be incredibly bisexual. I wanted every character to be bisexual.
I wanted everyone to be in an intimate friendship, familial, erotic and romantic relationship with every other character, on their own terms, and it was just more interesting to me to introduce another man into the mix.
And I just â I love that kind of Dorian Gray kind of archetype of this beautiful young man whoâs burning too bright at both ends and is in danger of burning out, and so I pulled that archetype and I kind of made that into Alexi.
On Time, Immortality and Relationship Evolution
CMR: Yeah I love â yeah I just love the different ways that the characters interact and that they â
STG: Thank you.
CMR: Yes, also over time, because the story takes place over a huge swathe of time.
STG: Yes.
CMR: How many centuries is it? Itâs a couple of centuries isnât it.
STG: It is. So weâre starting â like do not quote me on this guys, I did the research and then it all left my head, but I think weâre starting like 1300s like 1320, and then Magdalena is Early Renaissance and then Alexi is ⊠There isnât exactly I canât remember but heâs the 20th century, and then we follow them or maybe that the tens, the teens of the 20th and we follow them through through about the 30s.
CMR: The 1930s.
STG: The 1930s, I think is when it ends. I mean the story goes on, but thatâs when the book ends. So yeah it is itâs like hundreds and hundreds of years itâs quite a long time.
CMR: Yeah and Iâm just thinking about the how you maintain believable dynamics and levels of change between those characters over that amount of time, I think you did it really effectively, because you didnât try and show every little detail of every conversation that they had over hundreds of years, because that would have been impossible, but you did it really effectively in terms of just giving snapshots, which really worked well, I thought. I really enjoyed that. And you give that impression of racing through time at different speeds and I wanted to know how you found the process of keeping those dynamics developing in a believable way when you were dealing with that amount of time and how you feel like immortality plays in in in the way that they experience time and so on. I just wondered if you had thoughts about that.
STG: Yeah no thatâs a wonderful kind of bundle of questions. I think, first of all Iâm really interested in the way that relationships, especially romantic relationships, evolve over time and I think that people changing and the dynamic of your relationship changing is like a natural and healthy part of a long term relationship. But that is a very difficult thing for a lot of people to adapt to, I think a lot of times, we want the beloved to be the same beloved that they were when we met them.
But people grow and change and, if you want to be with someone for 20, 30, 40 years or eternity, you have to be comfortable with them being various different people during your time together and sometimes that results in a parting of the ways and sometimes it doesnât. But it was a theme that was really on my mind a lot and I was like what would that be like, even if, like⊠itâs already an undertaking to spend your whole life with someone. What would it be like if your marriage is until the end of time, you know, what would come up and what would change?
And I think like the dynamics between the vampires do change like primarily if â I think everyone who is familiar with DOWRY knows this, but just like a general warning: A DOWRY OF BLOOD is about intimate partner abuse. Dracula is an abusive partner and itâs about the brides growing away from him and getting away from him.
Because, you have the decay of the relationships in the context of intimate partner abuse on the Dracula end, but you also have relationships that change and grow like constants and Alexi start out with having feelings for each other, but not really acting on that and being more of like having more of a familial relationship, and then the relationship becomes more romantic or sexual later on, as they grow and develop as characters and as Alexi becomes more mature and kind of has a more sense of himself outside of Dracula, so things like that happen.
I think something that I was really interested in exploring in this book that helped me make those decisions was how every vampire deals with immortality differently. And immortality in DOWRY is kind of a terrible thing, like the vampires do find their own happiness, but it really gets to you after a while. And like it exacerbates mental illness or it creates existential angst or it decays relationships⊠like thereâs this idea that weâre not meant to live forever.
And you have to find your own way through to happiness, because if you donât really try itâs going to consume you.
So all the vampires have things that they love about being immortal and things that are kind of trying to consume them and destroy them about being immortal. I think even Dracula â like he gets more possessive and more paranoid over time as it starts to weigh on him more and more, and in the beginning heâs not so bad, and then by the end they totally canât live with him.
So thatâs kind of the⊠various themes that were at play when I was making those decisions â does that answer your question?
CMR: Yes, it does, I think itâs really interesting because I think when youâre dealing with longevity and relationships like just a normal amount, a normal human amount of longevity⊠there so much in that, I think youâre so right because not only does your partner change, I mean, you change as well.
STG: Exactly.
CMR: So⊠youâre basically⊠you kind of have to just rediscover each other, and you have to keep rediscovering each other, and thatâsâŠ
STG: Thatâs beautiful. Thatâs exactly it.
CMR: Yeah, itâs either something that can keep you going, or, potentially â I mean youâre rediscovering yourself as much as youâre rediscovering your partner, and thatâs something that can break you apart, because itâs⊠youâre not that person anymore, they are not that person anymore and youâre not the right people to be together at that point in your life, so yeah itâs a â itâs a double edged sword for sure.
STG: Yeah, yeah.
CMR: I canât spoil how it ends, but I loved the short story sequel that you had in your newsletter.
STG: Oh thank you! I loved writing it, it was cleansing, it was healing for me! [laughs]
CMR: And it was it was just such a lovely â yes such a lovely kind of follow up to it and you got to see what happened afterwards. Yeah and I really like the â again I canât say too much about the ending, thatâs really annoying. I really liked how it ended, I can say that.
STG: Yeah!
CMR: It isnât an easy ending and thatâs also really good itâs not, I donât want to say itâs not a happy ever after because it kind of is â
STG: It kind of is.
CMR: Yeah, it is.
STG: It might not pass for one in romance terms, but itâs â itâs â I would say it has a happy ending. It has a triumphant ending.
On Horrormance and Genre Expectations
CMR: Yes. Iâm trying to think of all these different versions of polyamorous relationships as represented in books and media and itâs really hard, actually, to think ofâŠ
STG: Thereâs not a lot, yeah.
CMR: I can think of a couple that are you know⊠Thereâs a French film, I think where thereâs a triad, yeah you know what I mean? I canât think of the title at all⊠and you can find things like that, where itâs kind of you know, working through jealousy and it gets very gritty and it gets very⊠um, itâs always got that that kind of sad realist kind of tone to it.
But when youâre writing very messy relationships, thereâs not a lot of that, or thereâs not a lot of variety in terms of the way that can play out. So I was just wondering, you know, in certain genres, especially in terms of genre expectations, it makes it a lot more difficult to explore darker themes like spousal abuse, like intimate partner abuse, you know, those sorts of issues within relationships, because it doesnât lend itself to that Happy Ever After that people want to read in say, romance, or the lighter side of Speculative Fiction that people want to read, arguably.
So just wondering, you know, what makes Horror a good vehicle for exploring these kinds of dynamics, for you?
STG: So Iâm glad you asked that question because marketing DOWRY is like walking a tightrope. I made a tweet about this the other day, but like itâs⊠explaining the book to other people and getting it to the right readers is this mix of being like, fun sexy vampire threesomes in Europe! Have a good time! âŠAnd this is a story about intimate partner abuse, please check the trigger warnings and read with care, like it deals with mental illness and despair and all this kind of stuff.
But I think that Horror and in particular the Gothic genre are the perfect home for stories like that. I was able to do â um, DOWRY is quite experimental and I was able to do a lot of things in this book, I think, because of the genre, that I couldnât get away with at this point in my career if it was a traditional fantasy or a traditional romance. Itâs queer and polyamorous which I will say is becoming more accepted, and people are starting to realize that thereâs a really big market for that, but thatâs still kind of odd to market.
Itâs written in an experimental diary format, it has these dark themes, but I think Horror is such a welcoming home for being experimental and for digging into the darkness and to not shy away from it and not be afraid of it, and especially the Gothic genre, like, raised me, like Anne Rice, vampire movies, THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, like these are my formative⊠formative texts.
And that was a space where the beautiful and the horrifying, and the gruesome and the sublime and the ecstatic and terrifying are kind of necessitated to live hand in hand. And so itâs a really welcoming home for a story like A DOWRY OF BLOOD. And Iâm really happy, I mean Iâm very, very happy with the reader response. Itâs been mind blowing. And I think that it has found the right readers because people⊠when you say, like a Gothic horror romance or a romantic fantasy with Gothic overtones theyâre like âoh itâs Gothicâ⊠thereâs more willingness to be taken on a wild ride I think.
We talk a lot in the romance genre about building trust with readers, and not breaking that trust, and I think that in the Gothic genre people are a little more willing to have that trust bend but not break. Like to be like, âOkay, this is really wild, I wasnât expecting this but Iâm along for the ride, Iâm going to trust this author to get me through to a satisfying endingâ, and I think that Iâve had a really positive experience with that being situated in the Gothic genre.
CMR: I think thatâs â yeah. I think again, the genre expectation is really key there, isnât it, because youâve got â I mean itâs written in an epistolary form.
STG: Yes.
CMR: So itâs very much like the original DRACULA in that respect, because itâs diaries and journal entries and people love the way it was set out as well, so you have in the paperback itâs fragments â not even full page prose sometimes, you just have fragments on a page, and then you move on to the next entry and the entries are various lengths.
And I really think that works, I like that very much and I think when youâre⊠if youâre familiar with Gothic horror or Gothic novels in general and the Gothic mode, like, I think you know that thereâs probably going to be some⊠you, you can expect a romance potentially if thatâs what you knowâŠ
STG: Yes.
CMR: But also people get walled up alive, do you know what I mean? [laughs] And so, you know, youâre also expecting gore, youâre expecting⊠thereâs a whole host of very well-known Gothic tropes that pop up, that I think people are willing to expect, I mean up to and including things like sibling incest or on the more horrifying end, people being burned alive, people being walled up alive, the horrible endings and the tragedy of it, and so, when you have like a triumphant ending, even though quite a lot of blood has been spilled to get there, thatâs thatâs a big bonus, because people have bought into the â people buying into that genre and knowingly buying into something fairly horrific as much as theyâre buying into the sexiness and the aesthetic of it, that decadent Gothic aesthetic, comes with that darker undertone that you canât do without.
STG: Thereâs an Italian word that Iâm going to mangle, that comes up in art theory, I believe itâs chiaroscuro, and itâs the juxtaposition of light and dark in a painting and how they bring out one another more starkly, and I think about that a lot when I think about my work, especially A DOWRY OF BLOOD. Because I think that the sweetness is all the more sweet for the pain and the the light spots in the hopeful parts are all the more hopeful, because the book is so dark. And they kind of bring each other into sharp relief and I think that thatâs what the Gothic genre is all about, like thatâs what itâs about.
CMR: Yes. I love that. Thatâs a really lovely note to end on, I think.
Future Projects
[After this interview was conducted, Saint has been able to reveal that she is now employed by Spielburg Literary Agency as an agent, and she is at the time of this episode being aired open to queries. You can find her Manuscript Wish List here. If you think she is a good fit for you, you can pitch to her via her Query Manager, here.]
CMR: Do you have anything coming out that you would like to let us know about, or anything that you would like particularly like to plug while youâre here?
STG: Iâve got a lot cooking right now, but none of it is announced yet and a lot of it is still in the works and in revision, so I donât have anything new to share with you guys just yet. But I will say, if you want to know all about whatâs going on and also get information about my giveaways and events â I do lots of Live on Instagram with other authors and I give away signed copies and posters and things like that â follow my newsletter which is saint.substack.com, and you can also find me on Twitter at s_t_gibson, and on Instagram at stgibsonauthor, and that is where I live.
CMR: Itâs very worth signing up for Saintâs newsletter, everyone. Very worth it.
STG: Thank you so much. Sometimes you get epilogues! To books that I wrote!
CMR: Very, very enjoyable. Well thank you for coming on the podcast, Iâve really enjoyed it.
STG: Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciated it, itâs always so much fun to be able to talk about vampires and the Gothic and all that kind of good stuff.
CMR: Well thank you very much again, and looking forward to seeing what youâve got coming out next.
STG: Thank you so much. Yeah, have a wonderful evening.
#AuthorInterview #BramStoker #dowryOfBlood #dracula #gothic #GothicFiction #gothicHorror #Horror #novella #Podcast #vampireNovel #vampires #VanHelsing #WomenInHorror
Interview with Lucy Rose: Gothic Filmmaking
This is the first bonus episode of the new season of Eldritch Girl and itâs a banger! The audio clip played from the film starts at 11min 41secs to if you want to listen to that, you can watch along!
~ Eldritch Girl S03 Bonus Ep 01Meet Lucy Rose
Lucy Rose is an award-winning writer/director for screen and prose/nonfiction writer with an interest in gothic, girlhood, horror, and literary fiction. Her fiction and nonfiction have been published in Dread Central, Mslexia, and more.
Lucy is represented by Cathryn Summerhayes at Curtis Brown (Books)
Other enquiries to hello [@] lucyrosecreative [.] co [.] uk
Go To Lucyâs Website Follow on TwitterTrailer
The Interview
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Ck1cLxIWiuAa6A6bWRdeh
Interview Transcript
CMR: Hello! Welcome back to Eldritch Girl! This is really exciting because weâve got Lucy Rose who is a filmmaker, and weâre going to discuss the indie horror short, She Lives Alone. Lucy, would you like to introduce yourself?
LR: Hello, I am Lucy, Iâm a filmmaker based in the northeast and I am the writer-director of She Lives Alone. She Lives Alone was such an amazing fun project to be able to work on. The development process was really fun. I worked really closely with my producer to explore the rural landscape of the place I grew up, which is a place in Cumbria. And I really just kind of wanted to bring a small facet of our Celtic regions and that tiny little culture to the screen and combine that with my love of Gothic horror and ghost stories and all the stories basically that I heard in Cumbria growing up that used to keep me up at night forever.
She Lives Alone has gone to some really cool festivals and itâs gone to some BAFTA and Oscar qualifying festivals, which is really intimidating but very cool. And then it ended its journey by winning best runner under 100 K at the Northeast Arts awards and getting picked up by Alter, which was the most amazing surprize in the whole world, because now it kind of finally gets to see its audience after a virtual festival runs so thatâs lovely.
CMR: thatâs so exciting Iâm really happy, the whole film is about 15 minutes long and it is available on YouTube and so Iâm gonna play a little bit of it Iâm really excited about, which is kind of at the end, so I mean spoilers, but it is a ghost story, so you can kind of â I mean you canât see it, you can just hear the audio. But we want to talk a little bit about the folklore behind it and a little bit of whatâs going on, so weâre going to start from 11:41 so you get a sense of the music and the dialogue â itâs very much a monologue, isnât it? A lot of it is a monologue because well⊠she lives alone.
[Laughter]
LR: Yeah.
CMR: itâs really dark and atmospheric and I think thereâs maybe like two other characters in the whole film, which is like you know really cool. Okay, so. Letâs see how this letâs see how this works.
[clip plays: an adult woman with a low voice and Cumbrian accent is speaking. The line is âBury you in earth, bury you in mud as thick as barkâ over and over in hushed, desperate tones, with the tense score, whistling wind, and metallic clinking. There is a sharp scream and gasps at the end as the music swells ominously.]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlAQGOcVa6Y
CMR: Actually going to pause it there because thatâs like a really good bit. I think the coolest image of that is the iron nail through the Bible through her hand which I was seeing as an exorcism ritual or part of an exorcism ritual, and can you tell us a little bit about that element and the little bit of dialogue that sheâs got as a kind of mantra that is âBury you in earth, bury you in mud as thick as barkâ?
LR: And so I grew up in like the tiniest, tiniest village like. It may be had like six or seven houses. And it was so remote so if you wanted to go anywhere to like a shop youâre looking at least 25 minutesâ drive, and so the sense of isolation and because of that, like the Community, and what the Community felt like, and how we as people kind of used storytelling as a method within our like our tiny, tiny little culture that again â seven houses â I basically took things that Iâd heard in my childhood and sort of morphed them and manifested them into this film.
I used to live by this woman who I will literally remember for the rest of my life, who was very superstitious, an extremely superstitious woman, and she was just the most incredible person and so like unashamedly weird. She was just so in touch with herself, which I think is so difficult in a small community, to be able to just like live your weirdness and like not care what people think of you, because everybody has opinions in those tiny little tight knit groups.
And she used to mess around with all sorts, but she you know she taught me like what ouija boards were and what voodoo dolls were, and she was really, really like spiritual and she often talked about like how connected to the earth and to the planet she felt was like a human, and Iâd sometimes visit her after school. And Iâd sit in a kitchen, while she was cooking dinner, for I was burned, and she just seeing these like really weird songs that she just made up herself like these little folk tunes. I just pulled phrases and lines and words that she was saying, because she did â she â I think she was just sort of⊠in hindsight, as a grown woman, I think I see her loneliness now, and how that connection to the earth and to nature was something that really, really kept her from going insane.
And it was a sort of gravity to her and thatâs kind of what I wanted to give to Maud was this sense of like you might be without a person or people but youâre not on your own, and you can always rely on different spiritual things to sort of find your centre and in terms of the Bible, the nail going through her hand, I think itâs really metaphorical but I really just wanted to talk about the power that was kind of harnessing her, and the struggle between how her mum was treating her. So, for context, people [listening] if you havenât seen it, Maud lives alone thatâs the âsheâ in She Lives Alone. Her mumâs just passed away and sheâs basically like in this normal grieving period and she begins to realize that sheâs haunted by the spirit of her mother and her mother left her one thing which was the Bible, and it was because the mother always thought she was a wicked girl.
Basically, at the end film she casts out the spirit of her mum by bonding herself to this Bible, like physically binding herself to it, and I think itâs in part a metaphor about⊠I think in terms of discussing themes like trauma, like that trauma is always going to be a part of you. You canât separate them, like, theyâre together, and thatâs horrible, but I donât think that thatâs a bad thing. I think itâs like an acceptance that like itâs just one of the bags youâre carrying with you in your life, and one of the items that you keep with you, and it doesnât make you an awful person, itâs just something youâve got in you.
And in a more sort of physical sense like, for me, like one of the staples of rural life is cast iron. You see it everywhere, you see it made making the gates, making the beds, making the keys, the locks, everything.
So I think itâs just bringing that industry and that sense of objects having a space in our community, and it sounds ridiculous, but one of the other things is the red stone and you constantly see some stone in in Cumbria, itâs everywhere you go and all the houses are made out of it.
And everything is red and orange and rust and copper coloured so itâs just one of those things about like bringing the identity of the land and the place and the people, whether thatâs the minerals, the materials and the industry and embedding it in the world of the film, so that it feels real and also acknowledging the spirituality of the place so like, the folk song that is in the filmâŠ
Acknowledging that however small the culture is, it doesnât mean itâs not important, and like that folklore, I think is a hugely, hugely important staple of that place and I just really wanted to like bring that to life in this in this film.
I think it works really well like and I also like the detail when she draws, um, so she has the Bible in the palm of your hand and then she draws a diamond on the front of the Bible around the Cross. Is that from something or is that a detail that organically came about, or is that based in folklore?
LR: And so, one of the things that came from, that sort of like rhombus square shape, is the woman who used to live next to me â again this incredibly spiritual woman who I, like, everything I learned about our tiny culture I learned from this person.
And, and she used to make these like⊠they were like twigs that youâd like put into squares and then you put different twines around them.
You know one day itâd be like fishing twine that she ⊠her husband used to fish a lot, so sheâd take some of his fishing twine, and sheâd make these little rhombus shapes, I canât do it like that. [shows me with her fingers in a rhombus shape]
And, and she put little flowers in them and she used to just leave them around house, I was never quite sure what they were, but she always used to call them wishing hexes.
Sheâd just leave them around and they were to bring good fortune and it was really beautiful, itâs really beautiful.
CMR: Oh thatâs really interesting I like that melding of that kind of folk tradition and then Christianity and then like, different spiritualities is that you get kind of melded in a place like that.
LR: And I find that thatâs a truth though, isnât it, I think a lot of people find spirituality and no one personâs version of any faith is the same, and thatâs something thatâs actually quite beautiful and thatâs born of our experiences.
CMR: Yes, and I think itâs a flavour of folk Christianity as well because, like I think itâs become⊠from outside perspectives I think itâs a very homogenous religion or a very homogenous spirituality and I think a lot of that is due to, you know, perceptions of modern evangelicalism and that kind of thing. But I think youâre right, in different enclaves people still do have their own traditions.
And itâs really â itâs really cool to see that because itâs a period drama as well, this film, so itâs linking back to a kind of earlier age and an earlier kind of expression of Christianity and folk Christianity, but also, I mean, did you have a year that it was set in, or was it just general?
LR: So I imagine itâs set in mid 1850s but, like the year is quite vague.
But I think like one of⊠actually, speaking of time, one of the really fun aspects of the film is that where itâs based has such an interesting relationship with time. Cumbria, when you look into its background, itâs wild. Itâs been constantly fought over, so its identity is like a complete mishmash of different cultures from like Norway to Roman to old Old English, to everything. Thereâs Germanic in there, and itâs absolutely insane.
And so I think that sense of time, and even though itâs a period drama, one of the things we tried to create was the sense of timelessness to it so it almost exists in its own pocket?
CMR: Yeah.
LR: And that was like really crucial for us because we just wanted⊠What we kind of imagined when we sat and we thought of as a creative team, we were like maybe this is what it felt like because it was so disconnected and its culture was so constantly changing and evolving and adapting new ideas from like people who came and left or people who conquered and then were defeated and⊠yeah.
CMR: I think that works really well in the film because youâve got it centred only on two locations which is her cottage which is miles from anywhere so a friend from the village actually comes to visit her, but you never see the village and you donât see it through her eyes, you donât see it through her friends eyes, you donât see any other people at all. youâre in, and you have a sense that the village is quite a walk away so she has to travel to get in there, however long that takes and itâs just this idea of⊠thereâs no civilization that kind of thing, and even the civilization, that there is itâs obviously not urbanized and itâs obviously like quite far from any kind of urban centre so youâve already got that kind of thing going on, and the cottage itself is this is where the horror is. Thatâs the locus of the domestic horror, because the spirit of the mother is haunting her in the house.
And so the other place you see her is just on the moors or you know that ring of standing stones isnât it that sheâs in.
LR: In yeah. The standing stones were actually based on a real place. We really, really wanted to shoot in the place, but we couldnât because itâs an active spiritual site and it just wouldnât be ethical to shoot there.
But the standing stones are based on a real stone circle called Long Meg and her Daughters.
And, which is place I used to visit all the time, and when you go now itâs just the most beautiful place, itâs in the middle of nowhere, thereâs like ribbons in the trees, bells, and itâs just stunning, but I mean that sense of isolation is like. I think, with it being a short film, you can, from a boring technical perspective, you can explore those worlds, but I wouldnât want to do that anyway, like I think itâs I really like just as a personal preference to how I approach things, again, going back to that word like pockets, I really like to capture like small pockets of hidden histories, quiet tragedies that donât necessarily get written down in the history books, because theyâre not deemed important enough to write down.
And when we think about period dramas which we think of like glitzy giant polished glossy manor houses, sweeping romances, like you know, especially with like the massive Bridgerton fad thatâs going around at the minute, you donât think of the real people and the very real lives and consequences and events and you know, thereâs hidden pockets of laughter with one person to another and realizing that âoh my God thatâs my thatâs my partner and Iâm going to spend my life with themâ or, you know, âI hate my sister because sheâs the worst person in the worldâ, but they had to share a bed, because they had no money.
Itâs those like really tiny moments that I tried to catch on to because theyâre just not explored enough, but I think it really serves horror because horrorâs everything we fear as a society.
And I think you know, I think, in some ways, like rural communities, the way that theyâre treated within our society is odd. You often hear them referred to as sheep shaggers or whatever, or like farmers, and that comes with the added like a sort of thing of like well theyâre not clever enough to have an opinion on this or that, but then on the flip side, though those communities are also beloved for their influence on things like literature, from like every genre you know from you Beatrix Potter to you know, everyone else, so itâs a really â I think thatâs sort of push and pull, and those two opposites can create real conflict, which is why it serves horror so well, because you kind of have to address those conflicts within the subtext of whatever youâre making.
Canât remember where I was going with that. Just monologuing about justice.
[Laughter]
CMR: Yes, but thatâs it isnât it, because youâve got like â rural communities do have those polarized perspectives, that they either idealized and itâs like this pastoral idyll before urbanization when everything was perfect, or exploited because of the natural minerals you know, so youâve got things like the South Wales coalfield, which is where I grew up, and thereâs huge chunks taken out of the landscape thereâs massive scars on the mountains from the quarries.
And then dying communities exist because they were only there for the mines and now thereâs no mines and thereâs no reason for those communities to exist.
And people are like, well the community just shouldnât exist, you should all just go somewhere else. Where are they going to go? You know, I get very annoyed about that because, yes, itâs you know, there are communities that exist and they have their own identities, they have their own deep roots in that place and that sense of place both traps them there and anchors them there at the same time.
I think you get that in this film as well, that sense of both entrapment and anchorage comes across in like she wonât leave the cottage because you havenât got anywhere else to go. Like, thatâs all sheâs got, sheâs not going to⊠what are you going to do, move to the city? With what money?
LR: You know itâs true itâs I mean everything youâve just said it like chefâs kiss, by the way, five stars.
I was just like, yes.
I would listen to a podcast just about that, but youâre so right, and I think you know, I was talking about this.
But I think itâs that split thing we have as humans, where our bodies want to be connected to nature but thatâs what we want in our bodies, in our bones, in our fibres, but our brains are like ⊠I want capitalism!! So youâre stuck in the middle, like I donât know where to go, and Iâve already said this, [laughs] the middle ground is Animal Crossing, because you get that like relaxed beautiful countryside, but youâre doing it through capitalism.
[Laughter]
CMR: yeah itâs difficult as well to see it from a 19th century working class perspective which obviously we are so divorced from now that we have to see it through the filters and the lenses that we bring to it, because everyone sees things through the lens of their own culture, whether you think you do or not, right, so itâs a really interesting exercise in just looking at a little bubble, a little bit, like a pocket of time.
And, and what I love about it as well, is that that quiet domestic drama that we havenât seen, but you start to fill in the gaps for yourself, because a lot of it is the silence and the things that she is not saying, and particularly in the dialogue when her friend comes to visit her, and itâs like Oh, where have you been and sheâs like Oh, you know Iâve been here, living my life. Except she hasnât been, because sheâs been stuck in the house on her own, her mumâs dead, and then I think thatâs when you get the sense that that space of grief and absence is the time when sheâs actually starting to realize how shitty her mother was to her.
When youâre going through it and living it and you donât have any other options but to stay in your situation, you canât go anywhere because thereâs nowhere to go and you have no means to go anywhere and everyone in the village in a community like that anchors you to that community, because theyâre the only people that you know, but also you feel like you have these senses of duty and responsibility to your mother. But that sense, as well, is imposed upon you by other people who think that you do [have a responsibility/duty], right.
[People] that youâve grown up with, and so you have to answer to everybody in that community based on your choices as well, and she obviously doesnât want to do that later on.
Not for any bad reason but itâs just sheâs like seems like a very introverted kind of character, who doesnât have that ability potentially to stand up for herself. And you kind of get the impression thatâs very much the motherâs fault.
But yeah, and this idea that sheâs wicked as the mother is constantly telling her that sheâs wicked and then at the end you get that realization of âyou always said I was wicked but it wasnât me it was youâ, and the only time she could have said that is when her mother is dead.
LR: I know itâs sad isnât it.
CMR: Yeah. Just crying here [laughs] like oh my God.
LR: Yeah. Itâs like justice but itâs not the justice she deserves. I think. And thatâs⊠which is what makes it horror, and itâs also what makes it true, right, like itâs so sad, and I think itâs â do you know, one of the things I always talk about this, but I think itâs so, so true and I think if we all just looked at this and acknowledged it, it would really change the way we think about how we express ourselves as humans.
I think, obviously, as a culture, as a society, as a civilization, weâve picked up bits and pieces of our history and weâve those are the bits that survived thatâs what we are now, and I think the bedrock of what weâre doing at the minute is extremely Victorian, which is why I call it a Gothic piece, even though itâs not got the big manor house and, like, the two orphaned children.
But I think thatâs why I call it a Gothic piece, because I think in terms of what itâs trying to say about us as humans now, like we are most directly linked to that time where Capitalism became everything, like mass production, science, medicine, industrialism, all of these new things that started changing the way we experience the world.
Things that kickstarted technology to a new level, things that opened the door to expression, conversation, like newspapers were selling more, books were selling more, people were experiencing new perspectives whether they liked those or disliked them, you know, and I think itâs that thing of expression, like now, when you put a parallel to that.
And you talked about like how quiet she was how she never said says what she thinks, and I think, you know, like especially like we didnât make that film in lockdown. That was a pre COVID film, it was written years before COVID and it is just by chance that, like, everything that we experience when it comes to human expression was just absolutely amplified during the COVID lockdowns. So like, when we look at how we communicate our lives, especially on things like social media, I know it sounds corny, but we never say what we really think.
I think, you know, when people are getting⊠even when people appear to be saying what they think when theyâre being reactionary on Twitter or getting triggered by an opinion and saying something because they just need to get the anger out, like I think theyâre not saying what they actually think because theyâre reacting to something thatâs triggering them and theyâre not talking about the trigger. Theyâre talking about why theyâre angry about the thing that theyâve been triggered by.
And likewise, on the other side of that spectrum weâve got like you know people who thrived in lockdown: Iâm doing this, Iâm doing this wellness masterclass, but really we were all struggling you know, and I think thatâs what Maudâs experiences is just that, like, a journey of learning to express herself, learning to get the words out, the real words, the ones sheâs actually thinking and not just what sheâs been told is acceptable to put out there and to let out of her mouth, and you know, I think that that really links to the Gothic because itâs all about you know repressed desire, whether that desire is for like a person or expression, you know.
CMR: Yeah definitely and I thinkâŠYeah thereâs so much, I mean that thereâs that kind of sense of Gothic isolation as well, like we talked a lot about that and also like the⊠I guess the fracturing of your identity and the rediscovery of your identity, which Maud kind of goes through on this really short journey, but itâs a very intense journey that we kind of go on with her and youâve got that sense of that really intense time of grief and coming to terms with, not just the death of her mother, but also grieving for potentially the person that she could have been.
LR: yeah.
CMR: Which sheâs only just coming to terms with, and thatâs also kind of like a haunting for Maud as well, that kind of the you know, that the spirit of the mother is what we decide is haunting her and then at the end is like the reveal of the you know the actual spirit itself that you see, just very kind of Woman in Black-esque which I love.
But you also get like this⊠I love the fact also that she was also in mourning dress, the mother and presumably you know her husbandâs dead and thatâs why itâs just her and her daughter but you get this dour woman who was sunk in her own grief and that has been haunting Maud also, like her motherâs emotional absence, you know, through her life.
But whatâs actually haunting Maud isnât just the mother.
Itâs a lot of things.
And so you get that kind of rejection and you know that that she tries to reject all of that and bind herself to something positive, and cast out that spirit, but itâs not easy to do and I keep coming back to The Babadook in my head because itâs something that you canât get away from.
LR: Yeah.
CMR: The babadook as a metaphor for grief, you can kind of lock it up somewhere in a room and look at it and kind of acknowledge itâs there and make sure that it doesnât hurt anyone else, and that you donât⊠you know, you donât lash out and you donât let it escape and damage or fracture relationships, and you do that by acknowledging its presence and dealing with it in a mature way, and by communicating with other people about it. Otherwise it gets in the way of your relationships. Which, for me, was what that film was about, in particular, between the mother and son [in The Babadook].
Here itâs Maud. Almost as if thereâs like a hint at the end that she doesnât succeed in that, because it almost overpowers her. So Iâm going to spoil it a bit, but I think these arenât spoilers, these are more like reasons for you to watch the film.
[Laughter]
I think if I could explain the whole film and then you wouldnât want to watch it, like, I donât understand you.
[Laughter]
So yeah. So thereâs a bit⊠so after sheâs sort of nailed her hand to the Bible, the nail then comes out of her hand, and it sort of levitates, and itâs almost like the iron is⊠itâs almost like a rejection of her or a rejection of what sheâs trying to do, that, that bond doesnât work.
And thatâs kind of like, oh is she a which you know, because that sign of cold iron not being compatible with the person of a witch or a fairy or something like that you know youâve got that kind of link to it, which I thought was really cool, but you also have the mother standing there, the motherâs ghost is in the frame behind her where she canât see it, but kind of looming over the proceedings, and youâve got this sense of like what exactly isâŠ[happening]?
Is the mother causing the rejection to happen, and is it the rejection this you know the physical rejection of the nail, but itâs that kind of⊠that [haunting/grief/trauma] isnât going to be healed by a ritual.
LR: yeah.
CMR: That whole thing is not going to be healed by a moment in time. Even, no matter how grounded you are to the place youâre in, no matter how well thought out that ritual is, no matter how desperate you are, that is a process that is going to take years and she is always going to be haunted by numerous layers of things that have come out as a result of her relationship with her mother, so, in a sense, her mother is always going to be there, whether her spirit is physically present or not.
And thatâs kind of the end of the film, it is very ambiguous and quite chilling, because you get that sense that itâs not â itâs not over, itâs not going to be over and that Maudâs haunting is kind of something sheâs going to have to live with â or not â and thatâs⊠thatâs the difficulty of living with grief isnât it, that for me that was very kind of relatable and very powerful and I really appreciated the whole tone of it, and I was like oh God yeah that was very upsetting as well, really upsetting to think about.
But I think thatâs like you say thereâs not a lot of space in a lot of kind of glitzy period dramas that are more about the romance and the upper classes, to look at working class tragedy, and you know, the ordinary people and those pockets of normal domestic drama, and how they deeply impact someone.
LR: For sure. I think more like more biggest tragedy is that itâs⊠You know, the ghost is never going to go, sheâs just going to learn how to live around it, and you did that thing, thatâs kind of how that grief and that trauma works, and I think another thing thatâs quite sad about these experiences, is that, like, you can look at something ugly, whether thatâs an experience or person and itâs really hard to accept that person as a complex human being with their own troubles, because I think one of the hardest things to admit, and itâs something you touched on, actually, is like, when you think about the motherâs character and how sheâs in mourning dress, sheâs lost her husband, sheâs got a lot going on in her mind, and I think one of the things that Maud can look at is the fact that, like it doesnât make it okay, and it doesnât make it acceptable what this woman has done to her, but like pain recycles into pain so often. Itâs horrible and I wish it didnât do that, but it does, it punches down and it punches down, and it keeps going, and keeps going, until someone strong enough to go, Nope, not anymore, and itâs so hard.
Whether Maud does that remains to be seen at the moment because I think itâs thatâs another journey. Just looking at it is the first step isnât it, and then dealing with it in in all its complexity, in everything that it carries with it thatâs like a whole other beast like itâs just so much.
But I think you know, like in terms of like the working class aspect like one of the things that just became so apparent to me when I was doing my family tree. So I grew up in Cumbria, but my family are all from Yorkshire and I realized, none of us really had left Yorkshire since the 1500s, thatâs what I discovered, and weâd always been in like areas like Sheffield and Huddersfield.
Well, I think whatâs so sad is when you look at some of the family trees on like all of these research websites, they have photographs, they have items, they have diary entries they have pieces of those people.
And I still think Iâm lucky, a lot of people donât have names, but I just have a list of names. I donât have church records, I have a couple of sentences that I found.
And I just think thatâs so awful that like, weâve deemed that some people are worthy of being remembered, some people are not, I just find that like horrifying and thatâs, you know, like, oh God.
CMR: yeah I taught a family history course a while back, and it was itâs really hard when youâve got like very limited things to go on.
And one of those things is the access, which people I think take for granted now and donât realize, but the accessibility of things like photographs.
You had to save up for those and maybe there was only one you know one shop in the town that was like three towns over so thatâs a whole day of it and you have to take that day off work and you canât take days off work because thatâs not how it works.
If youâre running a farm you canât just go off.
LR: yeah.
CMR: You know, never mind about the cows today, love, weâre having our photograph taken like.
LR: You canât just book in some holiday.
CMR: yeah so itâs like itâs a very⊠It becomes a very lower middle class â aspiring middle class â kind of thing, but a very middle class kind of thing to have a photograph taken.
But also at least in Wales, you had to pay for a church service but you didnât have to pay to have your relationship blessed on the church steps. So there was a lot of⊠so you wonât have parish records of those blessings for the relationship, because those relationships were not technically legally âmarriageâ.
LR: Wow.
CMR: So in Wales like I know somebody was doing his family tree, heâs retired and he was doing it as a thing you know, and he realized, he was the first legitimate child in about 200 years.
LR: Oh my gosh, thatâs insane.
CMR: And the reason was that it was just too expensive for people to get married so they would that they used to do a thing, where they would take take on the name, Mrs., the epithet and say that they were Mrs Jones. But they never legally changed it and they never legally had the marriage certificate to prove that. They just had, you know, they just moved in with their partner took on Mrs as an epithet and then had the children and the children will have the husbandâs name and everyone just worked around it as if they were married, and that thatâs a lot more common than people think. It was, you know, a lot more widespread, especially if you were poor. And thatâs why itâs really hard to find a lot of the records, but also just the accessibility of things like weddings, things like, you know, things that would leave that indelible mark.
LR: You know itâs honestly insane to me like I think itâs itâs just I think thatâs where a lot of load my characters come from even like I donât have any family called Maud, but I look at a name on a piece of paper, and all I have is letters, and Iâm like, who are you? What did you look like? Was your hair brown like mine, did you have the same sense of humour as me? Like, just trying to really untangle something that you have no information on, and I think itâs just thatâŠitâs just that thing of, like, there are so many humans on this planet, many like millions millions millions, and you know, and just trying to find a way to like honour every life, even if it was small, and I think⊠God what youâve said blown my mind.
CMR: Iâm not sure how prevalent it was in England or different parts of England, but um yeah thatâs certainly the case in a particular area of Wales anyway.
[Takes a breath to get back on track!]
CMR: I wanted to talk about the aesthetic of it as well because youâve got this it opens with that and see and see if it opens with her on her knees on the moors digging earth up. You use such a lot of muted colours and muted tones is that, like, was that a conscious decision from the standpoint of we want this to be Gothic and we want, we want it to look like this, or was that something organic or how did that kind of work out for you?
LR: And so I work super, super closely with my DP [Director of Photography], Lizzie Gilholme, she was amazing, I think sheâs the best cinematographer in the world, I might be a little bit biased, but I do I think sheâs incredible and so a lot of the time you give a script to a DP quite late on, but I literally from the conception of the very idea before itâs written down I WhatsApp Lizzie, and Iâm like âHey, Iâve got this idea, I want to know what you thinkâ.
So sheâs there from day dot and she, bless her, like she shouldnât have to, she reads so many drafts and she really does see a project folder from like you know, bare bones to like the fully fleshed form that it ends up in.
And, but me and Lizzie like we talked for a really long time about how we wanted this film to look we watched loads and loads of different movies that we really loved.
But I think the main, in terms of like creating an aesthetic, building a world, like our main thing was like we want this to feel like it felt for Maud so.
The muted colours and the sort of like the mauves and the browns and the muted greens, like those are all colours she would have experienced and those are the colours of her world.
And even down to like how much light we use so this film itâs very dark like extremely dark and youâve really got to watch whatâs going on, but itâs because they didnât have that much light. If you got up in the middle of the night youâd go to the embers of the fire, youâd light a single candle, and thatâs all you had to see in the house, especially if you didnât have gas lamps, so we really wanted to bring that sense of her world and her, her everyday experiences, in terms of what she saw what she felt.
Even the music, that was like⊠The woman I worked with was called Die Hexen who is an incredible Irish composer just has the most beautiful mind, and it was super important for me to go to find somebody who lived in a Celtic region, because obviously, Cornwall through Wales up through Ireland and then like at the top strip of England and Scotland, like those are the Celtic regions, and like I donât want that piece of that culture to be lost on the film, so itâs really important to me, to find somebody from those regions.
Die was, you know, luckily she was like I really like this project, and I want to work with you and I was like, amazing, and the first thing I said to her was, I wasnât super particular in terms of what I wanted. I didnât send her any music I liked I was just like, this is what you need to know about this film. And I said itâs about trauma and I really want that to be present in the score.
But, most importantly, one of the main sounds that you hear in Cumbria is the sound of the Helm Wind, which is a specific type of wind crafted by the shape of the valleys.
And itâs this really high pitch whistle, but it is so strong it can like literally pull the roofs off of houses, itâs just fierce. And I just said to her that I want that, like I want that sense of like, itâs, itâs flowing past you, and you just have to keep yourself standing up.
And, and I mean she came back with the most incredible score that Iâve ever heard in my life, and I literally think I heard one note, and that was it, and then we were done, and I donât â I donât think that happens.
But um, you know thereâs some â even in the quiet moments where like the score isnât central to the scene, you hear that whistle. And thatâs something thatâs all the way through, and it is just that sense of creating Maudâs world.
I love the Gothic, and folklore, and Iâm obviously influenced by those things, but it just so happens that they were central to Maudâs day-to-day existence, and thatâs why it came through in those creative choices, because she demanded it to be that way, and I couldnât say no.
CMR: I think it really works I love it, I think the music is so good, it really adds to the drama of it and also like itâs just got that right balance. Itâs creepy but itâs yeah and that whistle tone-!
LR: Itâs chilling.
CMR: Yeah, it is chilling yeah, it very much⊠yes, that sense of isolation and nature and just being buffeted and existing in this kind of world that she â because sheâs very much on the cusp of that industrial world in the mid 1800s but also sheâs embedded in the past as well, and like where you get that sense of the Standing Stones scene and the wild moors and that kind of thing, that sheâs trapped by the past of the landscape as much as by her own past, as much as by her familyâs history, and yeah I think that and the music just works so well with it and the colours and the, the, you know, just that sense of darkness.
LR: very dark very, very dark.
[Laughter]
CMR: I really loved it and I would recommend everyone watch it and Iâm gonna put the link in the transcript so everyone can see it, I might actually embed it in the blog post so everyone can watch it.
Do you have anything that you want to plug while youâre here or any other projects that youâve already made that you want to tell people about go for it.
LR: So Iâm currently in post production my next film, which is definitely more identifiably Gothic with the big house, the big spooky house, creepy hallways and Iâm really, really excited by it, itâs kind of honestly Iâve been working on this short film script for years so itâs really nice to see it actually exist and weâre really, really excited about it, where weâre on weâre really, really, I think weâre really close to picture lock it now, but my producer will slap me on the wrist for saying that.
Itâs looking so, so good, weâre so fucking proud of it and and everybody who worked on it just worked so hard so I just they are, they are the best. Thank you if youâre listening to this.
But other than that, weâre developing our feature film as well, which is very âŠ
CMR: [gasps and claps]
LR: I know and itâs somewhere between like She Lives Alone and, like the sort of more Gothic leaning âTasteâ, which is the film thatâs in post-production, so itâs kind of like a nice little lovechild between those two which Iâm really, really excited about and itâs also based off a local folklore called the Croglin Vampire.
CMR: Oh, my God.
LR: I know, Iâm really excited, so if anyoneâs listening, please manifest like crazy, so that we can make it.
CMR: Is there a kickstarter any kind of⊠can anyone contribute or?
LR: NoâŠ
CMR: Youâre doing it via grants and things right?
LR: Hopefully, yeah so. Weâve just finished a talent lab called Edinburgh Talent Lab Connects, which was a year long program with an amazing woman called Kate Leys, and also we got a mentor who was incredible.
And weâre hoping to move from treatment stage to draft stage next and itâs quite a slow process because with larger projects it just takes so much longer to really refine the story, but I think youâll really like it, I hope you like it.
[Laughter]
CMR: Iâm pretty sure that I will like it.
[Laughter]
LR: But other than that Iâm just vibing you know, and manifesting like hell.
CMR: I think thatâs enough though isnât it. Like pre production and then a feature film is a hell of a lot of work.
Yeah Iâm so happy Iâm so excited for that. I canât wait. So everyone watch the space. Go follow Lucy on Twitter.
LR: Please do, I post hilarious memes.
CMR: Yeah.
LR: Oh thank you so much for having me on, Iâve genuinely loved this conversation.
CMR: Feel free to come back anytime.
LR: Iâll be knocking on your door.
CMR: Obviously excited to watch the films that youâve got coming out. Just really, really thrilled for you, so yeah lots of manifestation.
CMR: And thatâs all weâve got time for, so thank you very much for listening and we will see you again next week bye now.
LR: Bye!
Listen to the interview #AuthorInterview #cumbrianFolklore #featured #gothicFilm #gothicHorror #historicalFiction #horrorPodcast #lucyRose #sheLivesAlone #WomenInHorror #workingClass
Author Spotlight: Gothic Fantasy Author Nadine Bells
Iâm Nadine Bells (she/her), a Gothic fantasy & horror author with a passion for whimsical, romantic and magical stories. Born and raised in the South of Germany, I draw a lot of inspiration from medieval castles, dark forests and classic fairytales. In 2023, I moved to the beautiful Mediterranean island of Cyprus where I now live with my partner and our unreasonable number of cats.
Author Links:
Website: nadine-bells.com
IG: @nadinebellswriter
TikTok: @nadinebellswrites
Once Upon A Song: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/once-upon-a-song-nadine-bells/1148696663?ean=9781967911103
Linktree with all important links: linktr.ee/nadinebells
Book Summary for Book Clubs/Readers:
Welcome to the HĂŽtel de Neige. Let yourself be swept away by its grandeur and glamor but beware â the cold may swallow you whole.
When lonely waitress Ana lands a job as a singer at the prestigious HĂŽtel de Neige, she believes it to be the beginning of her fairytale. Yet she soon finds that in those eerie halls, the line between Cinderella story and Gothic nightmare blurs. Sinister dreams cause her to sleepwalk, a ballerina makes ominous threats, and a phantom in white haunts the hotel â and Ana.
When Ana discovers that the hotelâs last singer lost his life under mysterious circumstances, she needs to decide if happily-ever-after is worth it. She knows she cannot trust her secretive colleagues or the charming but elusive hotel manager, Dimitri. All Ana ever wanted was to belong but at the HĂŽtel de Neige that may mean never leaving again.
Buy from Barnes & Noble Grab A CopyYour debut novella, Once Upon a Song, came out with Quill & Crow in January 2026. Was this the first book you wrote? Can you tell us more about your writing and publishing journey so far?
I have been writing stories basically ever since I could write, mostly fantasy. When I was eleven, I finished my first âbookâ â it was Warrior Cats fanfiction. Since then, Iâve written five more books, two in German and three in English, but Once Upon A Song is my first published work.
What is your relationship with the Gothic and fairytales, and what inspired you to blend them together?
Fairytales have always inspired my stories. I grew up on Brothers Grimm and Disney movies.
The German versions tend to be much darker and more brutal. Just because a story features romantic ballroom dances doesnât mean it canât also feature mutilation. Thatâs one of the reasons why the connection between fantasy and horror makes so much sense to me.
In Once Upon A Song, that connection happened very naturally. When I wrote the first draft of Once Upon A Song, I didnât explicitly plan for it to fall into the Gothic genre but the story decided thatâs where it wanted to go and with every reiteration, it became a little bit darker.
What gave you the idea to set a Gothic tale based on The Snow Queen X Phantom of the Opera in a hotel, and which versions of the fairytale in particular were you most inspired by? What other influences come into play in this novel?
The initial inspiration came from the musical Anastasia which I got to see live way back in 2019. I left the show with the desire to write something that would capture that same feeling of whimsy and mystery and magic.
That merged with the idea to put a new spin on The Snow Queen, one of Hans Christian Andersenâs most intriguing stories.
The nods to Phantom of the Opera developed subconsciously as I drafted the story. I noticed the parallels later on and decided to embrace and strengthen them. There are a lot of other influences that shaped the book, from the dark beauty of Guillermo del Toroâs Crimson Peak to the romantic extravagance of Bridgerton. Once Upon A Song is very much an amalgamation of all the things I love.
How did the character of Ana develop, and what were your references for her?
Anaâs character was inspired by the character of Anastasia: someone who feels lost in the world and is trying to find her place. In a world thatâs more anonymous and lonely every day, itâs a relatable struggle for many people, including myself, which is why I wanted to explore that theme.
Another huge part of Anaâs character is her relationship to music and her ability to find comfort and belonging through her creative pursuit â thatâs definitely something I borrowed from my own life.
How did you develop the hotel itself â the sinister, wintry HĂŽtel de Neige? How did you decide upon a hotel as the equivalent of the Snow Queenâs Ice Palace and were there any real life buildings that inspired your Snow Hotel?
Setting is one of my favorite parts of storytelling. I loved coming up with the HĂŽtel de Neige and its atmosphere. The decision to set the book in a hotel came very early on in the process. Hotels are places where we can forget our daily life behind for a while; they are magical but only because you know your time there is limited. Thatâs the perfect backdrop for Once Upon A Song.
The architecture itself was inspired by Strawberry Hill House, the estate of Horace Walpole who wrote the first Gothic novel. Itâs a gorgeous building which truly captures the dark spirit of the Gothic genre â even though its exterior is completely white. I love that contrast and itâs something readers will discover in Once Upon A Song: great beauty which hides sinister mysteries.
Lastly â what are you most excited about for readers to discover in this story, and what has been your favourite ARC reader responses so far?
The reaction has been wonderful so far. Most days, I still canât believe there are people out there reading my book. Nothing makes me happier than hearing from people who curled up with it on a cold day and were immersed by the story and its atmosphere â and surprised by its twists and turns.
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