MrAldisa
Eugen RochkoRE: https://post.lurk.org/@shibacomputer/116827981116605348
This is the future those who push for age verification want for us.
tiddy roosevelt@Gargron This is one of my major worries with the OSA. There's no real regulation of the companies who are providing age verification services. A lot aren't clear on information they retain or for how long. We're building vast databases of personal information with little transparency on things like security around it. We're going to see some enormous data leaks in the coming years.
Bauarbeiter* for Future
Edward Dore@BauarbeiterforFuture @babe @Gargron Online Safety Act 2023 - it’s the UK law that among other things requires “robust age verification” for access to various adult content and is responsible for people in the UK needing to hand over ID to shady third parties in order to access perfectly legal content, not to mention causing a load of sites to now geo-block the UK entirely as a result of this nonsense.
Wim🧮
ohir> There's no real regulation of the companies who are providing age verification services.
This is by design. The "mind kids" is just a smoke screen to gather enough data on the population to let physical bots deal with a precrime of dissent.
#technazi bro do like sci-fi, they just do not like the endings of books and movies depicting how they had lost. So now are eager to not make mistakes the sci-fi villains did to their demise.
@ohir @Gargron The frustrating part is a lot of it is undoubtedly going to be fed into facial rec and AI systems, with the way the landscape is evolving, and we have no idea yet exactly how that kind of fuckery has the potential to affect us.
It all has the potential to get very dystopian very quickly.
THE FREQUENCY CARTOGRAPHER 😎@ohir @babe @Gargron https://vimeo.com/64898248
Vous le savez tous même (Édouard Swoden avait averti indirectement) celui qui détient l’infrastructure détient aussi les récits tout passe par les mêmes câbles sous-marins !. Combien de développeurs ont joué un doublé jeux ? Vous prônez l’ouverture mais tous vous tirer les billes à et pour vous même 😏 objectifs rentabiliser les plus naïfs des usagers lambdas effectivement tout part d’un bon sentiment dans le millefeuille #FraGaCatic
Vous le savez tous même (Édouard Swoden avait averti indirectement) celui qui détient l’infrastructure détient aussi les récits tout passe par les mêmes câbles sous-marins !. Combien de développeurs ont joué un doublé jeux ? Vous prônez l’ouverture mais tous vous tirer les billes à et pour vous même 😏 objectifs rentabiliser les plus naïfs des usagers lambdas effectivement tout part d’un bon sentiment dans le millefeuille #FraGaCatic
C.A.T.I.C atelier synchronisation vidéo Karaoké
Formation A.F.P.A Fralec de Saint-Herblain Conseiller et assistant en Technologie de l’information IV Mise en place-gestion Espace public numériques et d'ateliers d'initiation informatique Formateur Jean-François B Vidéo Christophe montage FraLec
Paul Kingtiger@babe @Gargron If we HAVE to have it then I'd like to see the age check managed by GOV.UK with the social media site asking "this person must be X years old to use this service" and a simple YES/NO passed back to them from GOV.UK.
I'd rather not have it at all, but if we're going to do it, let's do it well.
Mishel Z@Gargron
I consider this type of age verification to be very negligent and pointless.
It would be more important to teach children how to use social media responsibly and how to recognize fake news and the like from a very early age – YES, IN SCHOOL.
I consider this type of age verification to be very negligent and pointless.
It would be more important to teach children how to use social media responsibly and how to recognize fake news and the like from a very early age – YES, IN SCHOOL.
☭ Father Hardstone@mischi2000 @Gargron Just leave parenting to parents, the world does not need 'nanny states'.
@harib_murshidi
Yes, I agree with you there, but I also feel I must and want to hold politicians and governments accountable. Proper legal frameworks must be established for large social networks. It must be possible to hold these networks accountable much more easily and quickly.
@Gargron
Yes, I agree with you there, but I also feel I must and want to hold politicians and governments accountable. Proper legal frameworks must be established for large social networks. It must be possible to hold these networks accountable much more easily and quickly.
@Gargron
@mischi2000 @Gargron Depends on what kind of accountability we are asking, some of the 'parental concerns' remind me of the Satanic Panic, #heavymetal scare of the 80s when the PMRC (Parent Music Resource Centre) in the US started a witch-hunt against musicians because some parents decide to sue Ozzy Osbourne for 'Suicide Solution', Judas Priest for 'Better by You Better than Me' (which was a cover of another band, they did not even wrote the song)
No social network can filter out creeps !
@harib_murshidi
No, of course there shouldn't be a witch hunt.
But there must be a way to stop bullying, self-harm, fake profiles, and things like that as quickly as possible.
Only then will social networks be safe for young people.
And believe me, I know what I'm talking about.
It should be clear to everyone that you can't filter out the weird people and creeps.
But you can create other conditions.
@Gargron
No, of course there shouldn't be a witch hunt.
But there must be a way to stop bullying, self-harm, fake profiles, and things like that as quickly as possible.
Only then will social networks be safe for young people.
And believe me, I know what I'm talking about.
It should be clear to everyone that you can't filter out the weird people and creeps.
But you can create other conditions.
@Gargron
What exactly is a 'fake profile' ? When the internet was introduced to kids earlier on, it was specifically considered the most important rule that you should not divulge any real information and put anything like that on the internet and now we are going into the opposite direction !
And if somebody does harass someone at some social media network, they are responsible... even at this place some creep can creep in and try to doxxx or blackmail someone, i
Juho Mäntysalo@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron
>What exactly is a 'fake profile' ? When the internet was introduced [- -] it was specifically considered the most important rule that you should not divulge any real information ..
Yeah, and the dotcom-crash was caused in large part by the inability for advertisers to target who was seeing the ads.
So the web2.0 got advertisements tied to profiles that were linked if not to ID, then at least to a large dossier of likes, dislikes, and spending habits.
Well, I don't understand it... you are saying that is that a good thing or a bad thing, I certainly don't want anybody to track my habits and have no interest in getting any 'localised' ads ! 😐
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron
>Well, I don't understand it... you are saying that is that a good thing or a bad thing
It's either or, depending on do you see yourself as making money, or as someone to be made money out of.
I don't want to be either of those things, 🤷
@harib_murshidi
There are all sorts of fake profiles, ranging from fake profiles to outright impersonations.
All I can tell you is that it cost my parents tens of thousands of euros in court and legal fees to have a profile deleted on meta-platforms that impersonated me in the worst possible way.
I was 13 years old at the time and suddenly exposed to things I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
I don't want to say any more about it now.
@Gargron
There are all sorts of fake profiles, ranging from fake profiles to outright impersonations.
All I can tell you is that it cost my parents tens of thousands of euros in court and legal fees to have a profile deleted on meta-platforms that impersonated me in the worst possible way.
I was 13 years old at the time and suddenly exposed to things I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
I don't want to say any more about it now.
@Gargron
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron
IMHO USA is a bad example on social panics, seeing as that's the local culture going all the way back to the literal witch hunts.
As such it's not really the state/federation doing the hunts, they're just reflecting societal customs instead of rising above them (which was Hegel's idea, iirc).
Witch huntings were happening in #England as well during the 'English Civil War' especially when Matthew Hopkins (The Witchfynder General) was operating around !
I am not an American but as an observer from a far away continent, Americans are very 'OK' with violence, blood and gore but very queasy about nudity and anything which implies nudity or any kind of saxuality ! It's the other way around in #Europe
somewhat
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron
>Witch huntings were happening in #England as well during the 'English Civil War' especially when Matthew Hopkins (The Witchfynder General) was operating around !
They happened everywhere. The thing I was going for was that they're not happening everywhere anymore, but the one place they do happen does has a long and continuous history in the subject.
Also it's not that they were led by the state, but that state hopped to the bandwagon.
Bill Zaumen@harib_murshidi @iju @mischi2000 @Gargron It depends on where in the U.S. you live. Until recently, San Francisco did not have a law restricting public nudity (the summer fog and wind encouraged modesty), and when they finally decided there might be a problem, the law they wrote included exceptions for "adult" street fairs, various special events, etc. The public hearings were "interesting".
https://www.mercurynews.com/2012/11/20/san-francisco-orders-nudists-to-put-their-pants-on/
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron
The discussion should school transfer customs in addition to knowledge is a long one, but I believe philosophers in general are for it? At least in the hegelian tradition.
Admittedly the relationship between school (which is often an indoctination tool of the state) and parents/village is a tricky one. Still can't be sidelined with just generic reference to "nanny states". Particularly as nannies are a good thing, right?
@iju @mischi2000 @Gargron Nannies are a good thing ?! Maybe in your culture perhaps, and in the US there were 'Senate Hearings' over the 'lyrics of music' , Dee Snider of the Heavy Metal band 'Twisted Sister' attended them as well as 'Frank Zappa' and at that point both the Republicans and Democrats were on the same page over that (Al Gore was part of the hearings and his wife back then Tipper Gore was a founder of PMRC)
PMRC gave us this !
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron
>Nannies are a good thing ?!
Well, in the US-context as well. Most of Disney-films are about nannies, or the lack thereof.
Positive: Mary Poppins, Sound of Music, etc.
Lack of: Peter Pan (why were the kids alone to begin with), Jungle Book (unless you count the animals)
When people say they don't want a nanny state, it's usually in the context of alcohol intoxication limits, food safety, etc.
Okay, I should use the term 'Nurse Ratched' from now on, my experience with a 'nanny state' thing is that when I was in school they caught me reading '1001 nights' (the uncensored version) and called my parents, and they had a serious squabbling with the school authorities cos they did not see any problems with an 8 year old reading that book (cos I was reading any books that I can get my hands on).
It's more like a 'nanny society' than state (#Pakistan that is)
Asimech@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron Public schools teaching critical thinking skills makes for a "nanny state"?
For someone with a hammer and sickle symbol in their name that's quite the libertarian take.
When did I say that 'public schools teaching critical thinking skills' make for a nanny state ?! 😐
@harib_murshidi Re-read the comment you're replying to with your "the world does not need 'nanny state's."
Or do you not count "teaching children how to use social media responsibly and how to recognize fake news and the like" as "critical thinking skills"?
@Asimech #digitalid and #ageverification is not 'teaching' any of those things ! and it's the responsibilty of parents to allow/disallow their kids access to devices that allow them access to such platforms, that's the job of 'parents' to monitor their activities and when a parent does that it does not qualify as spying but at most a bit of 'helicopter parenting'
canleaf08✅ 加拿大葉子 🏳️🌈⚧️🇪🇺🍁@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron it were never parents who pushed for these laws. They were lobbists.
Please read up on PMRC and the history of this label which was put on music albums ! Before that there was Comic Code Authority of America, later on there was a huge outcry over #MortalKombat !
It was not the lobbies but the parents of many children who sued Ozzy Osbourne and Judas Priest (I only know about them but there are more cases out there) and there were all kinds of allegations like 'hidden messages' if you play the song backwards
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron Yes I I know. These are lobby groups who now see more AI agents on the web than organic human users and now they need verifications.
@canleaf @mischi2000 @Gargron Well, those lobby groups have 'convinced' enough real people out there that #digitalid and #ageverification is the way ! So it's not limited to lobby groups alone when you and I encounter many people who are all for 'age verification' and bringing more 'real people' on these platforms (pretty much ending up internet anonymity)
Pardon me, I don't even know where this is going and it is turning into a rant ! :| So I'm going to take a step back from this
@harib_murshidi @mischi2000 @Gargron it is a measurement of spionage, worse than the GDR and USSR together.
Anders Lund@Gargron In denmark, Datastyrelsen (the state office caring for data) released an "altID" app, which can be used as an ID, IRL or online. After creation, data stays on your device, and what clients get is an age or identity verification, and you get to choose what to share. They failed to make it open source, but given it does what the say it does, it at least better than scanning passports etc, I believe. It is derived from an EU model afaik. And I was able to install it on my google-free /e/os fairphone. FWIW.
Morten Juhl-Johansen@anderslund @Gargron It was built to integrate with the European eID, yes.
Erka KoivunenThere is a case to be made for a safe age verification for online communities for minors.
Back in the good times when the US government tried to be part of a solution, president Obama’s Cyber Czar put out a proposal for a brokered verfication service to keep adults (potential groomers and pdfs) out of online games and services designed for school kids.
The student registries would’ve served as a source for identity and age verification and the individual app or an endpoint device would then be minted an anonymous proof of age.
It never materialised but the idea was compelling.
The search word would be ”National Strategy for Tusted Identities in Cyberspace”.
I see the paper was released ten years ago, when the US presidents still adhered to record-keeping requirements and preserved official documents for posterity.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/NSTICstrategy_041511.pdf
Solitha@anderslund Maybe I'm thinking way too far into this, but it seems to me that any data given that verifies you, is a form of ID that can be stolen. Your "altID" is still ID.
@anderslund What I'm trying to say (probably not well, it's hard to put into words) is that having your altID leaked/stolen doesn't feel functionally different to me than, say, this passport leak.
It's an ID masking your ID, but still has the whole value of any set of credentials.
Of course, as you said, physical possession of the device... which is also true of any credentials.
@solitha @Gargron I'd say that the ID solution we use in Denmark to identify to banks, public authorities and also private companies in some cases - MitID ("MyID") has had few issues. It is a 2FA soultion, where the 2nd factor is either an app or a physical device. AltID is less secure, but also provides less information to clients.
@anderslund I guess I'm just feeling like there are no good answers. Any security created by humans can be broken by humans.
And we've arrived in this world where one's individual identity is so valuable... and yet, third parties who mishandle that information are slapped on the wrist. Meanwhile, that data has slipped any containment.
There is so much more money behind stealing the data than there is in protecting it. We're steadily losing the battle.
kainisenni@anderslund
In NL we have @yivi_privacybydesign, which is even on F-Droid. I've yet to encounter something that uses it (so it's not on my phone anymore), but I'm happy we have something decent ready in case age verification becomes mandatory.
@Gargron
In NL we have @yivi_privacybydesign, which is even on F-Droid. I've yet to encounter something that uses it (so it's not on my phone anymore), but I'm happy we have something decent ready in case age verification becomes mandatory.
@Gargron
@kainisenni @yivi_privacybydesign @Gargron Yes, yivi. In Denmark, the app is prepared for buying alcohol, tobacco and such, and can display a QR code (confirming that you are old enough) that can be scanned in stores, for example. I havent tried to use it yet, it will take some time I believe :)
Ryek DarkenerThe future is not "leak". The future is access for everyone who pays enough. Legally.
b3lt3r@Gargron I am so fed up with ID being passed to external companies with no understanding or validation of what they do with it. One of the main companies used in the UK, Persona, was co-founded by Thiel. How on earth can *any* trust be put in any of his companies.
Lots of arguments about the how, but actually I strongly question the why. I simply do not believe the "protect the children" mantra. The goal is worthy, the method is not.
@Gargron I wonder if there is a future ahead of us in which all forms of identification documentation are so devalued as to be useless.
Shat ☑️@pantheonw All I can think of that would be left if documentation was devalued, would be biometrics.
And *that's* a whole 'nother can of worms.
This has already happened in India
We have a national id card called Aadhaar - biometric based (finger iris scan)
This is alongwith multiple other nationally acceptable ids. (Election Voter, Driving License, Tax Permanent Account Number, Passport)
And strangely the highest court has ruled that none of these are proof of citizenship. Proof of Citizenship will be a combination of documents. (Birth Certificate, parents id etc etc)
@ramkay Not really what I mean, though. An Aadhaar number can be stolen or leaked, and misused, like any other ID credential.
What I mean is, for instance, you have to go in person to your bank to scan your irises before they'll talk to you.
I thought maybe an app could do it, but I realized I couldn't bet against genAI being able to falsify that.
@solitha understood
Aadhaar is headed that way already
For many services (including new sims) fingerprint verification is required.
Many agencies - both govt, and private are self adopting biometric verification even in violation of the law the explicitly states it is not to be used for such purposes.
I think it is a short matter if time that GenAI will have access to stolen biometrics that will be misused.