Valter Hemmi
Daring FireballThe Washington Post on the EU’s DMA Folly
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/06/15/washington-post-dma-folly
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/06/15/washington-post-dma-folly
Mike Dolan@daringfireball Why not both?
@daringfireball “It only hurts iPhone users who live in the EU, who are stuck with the old dumb version of Siri for the foreseeable future.”
Spot on. The DMA has totally backfired. It doesn’t bring us, the EU based users and developers, anything of value. We are just getting left behind.
The sad thing is that 99% of europeans have no idea what the DMA is, doesn’t know about Siri AI and don’t know what we are missing.
If you agree, sign the petition👇
https://siri4eu.com/
gabriele renzi@nstrm @daringfireball if you read the EU's own review of the DMA effects you can see the actual positive effects of the DMA listed clearly in section 4
Machiel
Anders Hovmöller@nstrm @daringfireball I don't know.. this seems like an overreach. Old Siri is stupid not just because it can't read your message history, it's stupid in myriad other ways. Apple could absolutely launch a EU version of Siri AI that wasn't a total failure but couldn't read your message history.
dmitriidNo one knows what Siri AI is because it doesn't exist yet.
What we know is that Siri has been dumb shit for ages, with no way to change it. And even for conversations Apple gave users in Japan an option to call other agents, but bot anywhere else in the world.
It's Apple literally saying fuck you to you, and you defend it.
@dmitriid @daringfireball Apple is a business, and if it doesn’t make business sense for them to release a feature in the EU due to the DMA they are not gonna do it.
Let companies design their own products, and let users vote with their wallet.
"A supranational trillion-dollar company deciding to reduce user choice and competition is good actually"
A question of how companies will design their products when Apple literally doesn't let them run on their platform never even appears in these discussions.
Meanwhile here's Pebble saying how Apple intentionally prevents interoperability for competing products: https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-awesome-with-iphones/
I mean, in one of the comments last year @gruber said that if you want a competing photos app on the iPhone, the company should instead design and sell their own phone lol
@dmitriid @daringfireball @gruber Why would they be entitled to do anything on someone elses platform. There are lots of considerations going into opening up deep integrations to other companies and not something you should take for granted.
Should EU require Volvo to support CarPlay Ultra integration? And maybe other infotainment systems? So that everyone can compete in Volvo cars and the users can choose what infotainment system they prefer?
This kind of legislation is too far reaching.
@nstrm @daringfireball @gruber
> Why would they be entitled to do anything on someone elses platform
That's literally how platforms work: by letting others develop on them. Or do you think that all the apps you use are developed by Apple and Apple only?
Or do you think Apple is entitled to kick anyone out as soon as they develop their own competing product no matter how shitty?
1/
@nstrm @daringfireball @gruber
Cars are an analogy only if you consider that if iOS was a car, Apple would orevent you from using tires from a different manufacturer, or fill up at any gas station of your choice.
Would you be cheering for them?
2/2
@dmitriid correction: they are not entitled to do anything they want on someone else’s platform.
If that’s how they want to sell cars then yeah, it’s up to them to decide. Then the people can decide if they want to buy it.
Who "they" are not entitled?
So you're saying that the moment Apple develops their own competing product with yours, Apple is entitled to kick you out instead of competing on merit? (That's what they did or tried to do on numerous occasions).
Also, learn the word "duopoly" and why "voting with your wallet" doesn't work.
@dmitriid for example Pebble that you mentioned.
No I’m not saying that at all. There are terms that developers accept, and if you don’t violate them you are not being kicked out of course.
Yes, there is a duopoly. But legislation that makes these two leave out useful features is not the right way forward. It doesn’t magically give us any more choice. It just makes things worse.
Why isn't Pebble "entitled" to similar functionality? You literally said "let others build their products and compete". Here's Pebble building a product, and Apple literally preventing them from competing, and literally preventing you from enjoying the same functionality with a competing product.
Apple's terms literally allow them to kick you out if you build "similar functionality" and they will literally set defaults to their shitty apps without a way to change it.
1/
@dmitriid just like Apple is not entitled to have CarPlay Ultra integration in every car. The car platform owners are free to choose which parts of their platform they want to open up for 3rd parties.
You're confusing the requirement for Apple to have its services on other platforms (no one is asking them to do that) with opening access and providing users with choice on their platform (what they are fighting tooth and nail).
Once again. If it was a car, Apple would literally orevent you from using any tires you want, or fill up at any gas station you want, and apparently you'd be oraising them for it.
Besides the fact that you don't even know that Apple literally kicks off or disadvantages developers the moment there's an Apple app/service/functionality they have to push.
Or besides the fact that you demand others to build their product and compete on merit, but somehow "Apple is entitled to do whatever they want".
Thom, a distro-agnostic tool@nstrm @dmitriid I can put whatever software and hardware I want in my car. What are you on about?
Nobody is going to stop me from putting an Android Auto/Apple Carplay box in my car. In fact, there's a thriving market for these types of boxes and conversions, many of which integrate into even very old cars as if they were stock. Would you accept it if Volvo prevented you from changing your head unit, or replacing a broken seat with a third-party one?
If yes, why not be similarly enraged at Apple in this case? Because Apple is a super extra special boy?
HP van Braam@thomholwerda @nstrm @dmitriid
This! Why are people considering it "Apples platform" or "Volvo's integration".
It's YOUR CAR, you paid for it. Why hell do you WANT to be bound by whatever weird corpo shenanigans led to you having to match your CAR to your PHONE to get it to work together.
It is CRAZY to me that that situation isn't insane to the people in this thread.
"Oh yeah, I want to buy a new car, oh no not that one because I own a Google Phone".
What?! Absolutely nuts.
@hp that is fair, do what you like with your products. But requiring the manufacturer to open up their platform to competitors, and build APIs for them (for free) is something completely different.
If the manufacturer doesn't tell you how their product works then you don't actually own it.
Your argument is "The company that made my phone should be able to force me to buy a car from a manufacturer that paid them too."
They already sold you the phone. There's nothing "magic" about CarPlay, it's just a refusal to explain how it works.
It's already there, and has to be for the feature to work.
They don't need to double or triple dip your wallet. They don't do EXTRA work.
@thomholwerda @dmitriid I think the level of integration should be up to the platform owner to decide. Yes you can put regular CarPlay in many cars but you can’t put CarPlay Ultra in. That require deep integration to the instrument cluster and more, someting that is not open for anyone.
Lenni 
🖖@thomholwerda @nstrm @dmitriid In most modern cars the head unit isn't a normal DIN/double DIN one with standard connectors that can be replaced though. It's some highly integrated custom part that can't even easily be taken out of it.
Which sucks, and we're likely to go through the same shit with car manufacturers in the bear future.
Especially since they look at these shitty companies and think "why the hell can't we extract all the money we can from customers and prevent anyone from doing anything.... in the name of customer satisfaction of course"
@Lenni @nstrm @dmitriid It's super easy. There's fully custom options for virtually every car. Name a car, and you can get an Android Auto/CarPlay head unit for it with the proper trim piece replacements. Here's just one of the dozens of options for a Santa Fe 2007:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExphqoS
These exist for any car. Not being aware of this doesn't mean it does not exist.
Shad@shadash @nstrm @daringfireball @gruber
Won't help much. Google made sure that Android AOSP is useless by removing most of key functionality to its own proprietary services, and now moves to make any de-Googled forks unviable: https://www.androidauthority.com/grapheneos-google-apple-approved-devices-web-warning-3665319/
jramskov@nstrm @daringfireball Has Apple provided details about the solutions they have suggested to the EU?
I generally trust Apple a lot more than other big companies, but in the end I’d argue who I trust should be my choice, not Apples. Especially with the current US government in mind…
J$@daringfireball I’m pretty pleased sbout getting the superior, slop-free iOS. With Siri relegated to the bin.
I do wonder how Google, Viboslop etc. keep getting away with ramming their own “AI” rod down people’s throats without repercussion. Begging for forgiveness rather than permission? Calling out the customary EU habit of toothless response?
Ludwig Franzen@js Sorry, ”Viboslop”? @daringfireball
@Lootwijk @daringfireball previouslly known as Microsoft, but now “the Copilot Company”. Hence.
@js no one would force you to use it though.
We who actually want it are left out because EU bureaucrats are making these stupid decisions on our behalf.
@nstrm If you think that, you haven’t been paying much attention to the slop-e13n that’s been going on.
Furthermore, its very presence, its existence, is harmful. Inefficient beyond scale, predatory, biased, deskilling, fundamentally flawed, and ecocidal to the core.
We need water, air, bees, and a bit of energy to survive. We need a functioning ecosystem. We cannot survive the whoever burns up the planet quickest gets to rule the ashes race.
Thomas P. Moonis@daringfireball “I agree with the Washington Post editorial board” is a take.
l0n@daringfireball I think what the EU wants is the ability for its citizens to choose to funnel all their sensitive data to OpenAI / Google / Meta etc. but most techy people who want that ability would probably agree that allowing everyone to shoot themselves in the foot is a terrible idea
@daringfireball noooo don’t bore us with another year of anti EU posts. Why do you even care, just leave us and our quality of life be.
Also, repeating bezos propaganda.. ugh
@vmachiel @daringfireball No. Thank you @gruber for bringing attention to this insanity! We are many Europeans who are fed up will all this regulation coming from the EU.
Please continue bringing common sense to the discussion!
@nstrm @daringfireball @gruber lol: I’d rather have some regulation backfire like this for a while, than spend one minute in the billionaires playground
@vmachiel @daringfireball @gruber I’m afraid that “for a while” might end up being “for ever”. And even just delaying features can cause a lot of damage.
Right now app developers around the world can try out integrating with Siri AI while we the Europeans can’t. The law that was designed to “let developers compete” is actually giving us a disadvantage globally.
That people call out the shortcomings of this legislation is a good thing.
@nstrm @daringfireball @gruber you can change the region, or try it on Mac.
And Apple and the EU will work it out, same as they did with Apple Intelligence.
John Gruber@gruber @[email protected] I just don’t get why you care so much about what the EU does and does not allow. Just enjoy it in the US
DrChris@daringfireball I think what you’re missing with your American perspective is there’s a real sense of distrust in America and American tech giants in Europe. They’ll happily go without features. See for example the wide-scale rejection of Microsoft Teams across European governments (something I’m sure you agree with?)
https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-german-state-schleswig-holstein-uninstalls-windows/
artjulian@DrChris I already tried to tell him…sovereignty is what they’re going for, not being a superpower.
Nicholas Modesto@artjulian @DrChris
@daringfireball i don’t think I have ever heard ‘super power’ in the articles or POV. Irrespective of the EC’s end goal, their approach is passive aggressive and unproductive. It results in waste, continuous rework, and technical debt.
That is the key point.
@nicholasmodesto @DrChris
And I quote “Behind all this lies the dream that Europe could be a ‘regulatory superpower.’”
I agree that the approach is unproductive and personally don’t agree with the EU’s methods here, but the perspective is lacking key insights.
@daringfireball Europe as a whole is also a culture much happier to embrace regulation and laws. They’ll accept higher taxes and reduced ‘freedom’ in exchange for a fairer and more equal society. It may seem insane to your American perspective but is embraced here.
Feets@DrChris @daringfireball that may be true, but the replies from Europeans to Regnier on his bizarre LinkedIn post (https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thomas-regnier-24a05810b_what-is-the-true-story-behind-apples-decision-activity-7470439874664280064-TuEt) simultaneously tell the story at what end users ABs developers want and what governmental entities want might not necessarily align, either
What is the true story behind Apple’s decision not to roll out "Siri AI" in the EU? This decision is Apple’s and Apple’s only. Because absolutely nothing in the DMA prohibits Apple from rolling out… | Thomas REGNIER | 87 comments
What is the true story behind Apple’s decision not to roll out "Siri AI" in the EU? This decision is Apple’s and Apple’s only. Because absolutely nothing in the DMA prohibits Apple from rolling out new features in the EU. Yes, the European Commission and Apple had a few contacts on "Siri AI". But instead of offering a compliant solution, Apple asked to be exempted from its interoperability obligations under the DMA - and this for 18 months. That's not an option. EU rules are non negotiable. And it would mean that no AI agent other than "Siri AI" could be chosen by EU consumers. Apple, like any other gatekeeper, cannot close the market. The DMA is very clear about that. Our developers have the right to compete. And our consumers the right to choose. Those who want to keep using Apple products in their current form can of course do it. But for those who want to use another AI agent, the DMA will give them the possibility to do so. | 87 comments on LinkedIn
Martin the paranoid android