Mastodawn

Valter Hemmi 6d ago

@daringfireball “It only hurts iPhone users who live in the EU, who are stuck with the old dumb version of Siri for the foreseeable future.”

Spot on. The DMA has totally backfired. It doesn’t bring us, the EU based users and developers, anything of value. We are just getting left behind.

The sad thing is that 99% of europeans have no idea what the DMA is, doesn’t know about Siri AI and don’t know what we are missing.

If you agree, sign the petition👇
https://siri4eu.com/

Bring Siri AI to EU iPhone Users Safely

A privacy-preserving petition asking EU regulators to define a safe path for Siri AI and AI assistants.

No one knows what Siri AI is because it doesn't exist yet.

What we know is that Siri has been dumb shit for ages, with no way to change it. And even for conversations Apple gave users in Japan an option to call other agents, but bot anywhere else in the world.

It's Apple literally saying fuck you to you, and you defend it.

@dmitriid @daringfireball Apple is a business, and if it doesn’t make business sense for them to release a feature in the EU due to the DMA they are not gonna do it.

Let companies design their own products, and let users vote with their wallet.

"A supranational trillion-dollar company deciding to reduce user choice and competition is good actually"

A question of how companies will design their products when Apple literally doesn't let them run on their platform never even appears in these discussions.

Meanwhile here's Pebble saying how Apple intentionally prevents interoperability for competing products: https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-awesome-with-iphones/

Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

I’m surprised that you’re surprised

I mean, in one of the comments last year @gruber said that if you want a competing photos app on the iPhone, the company should instead design and sell their own phone lol

@dmitriid @daringfireball @gruber Why would they be entitled to do anything on someone elses platform. There are lots of considerations going into opening up deep integrations to other companies and not something you should take for granted.

Should EU require Volvo to support CarPlay Ultra integration? And maybe other infotainment systems? So that everyone can compete in Volvo cars and the users can choose what infotainment system they prefer?

This kind of legislation is too far reaching.

@nstrm @daringfireball @gruber

dmitriid

> Why would they be entitled to do anything on someone elses platform

That's literally how platforms work: by letting others develop on them. Or do you think that all the apps you use are developed by Apple and Apple only?

Or do you think Apple is entitled to kick anyone out as soon as they develop their own competing product no matter how shitty?

@nstrm @daringfireball @gruber

Cars are an analogy only if you consider that if iOS was a car, Apple would orevent you from using tires from a different manufacturer, or fill up at any gas station of your choice.

Would you be cheering for them?

2/2

@dmitriid correction: they are not entitled to do anything they want on someone else’s platform.

If that’s how they want to sell cars then yeah, it’s up to them to decide. Then the people can decide if they want to buy it.

Who "they" are not entitled?

So you're saying that the moment Apple develops their own competing product with yours, Apple is entitled to kick you out instead of competing on merit? (That's what they did or tried to do on numerous occasions).

Also, learn the word "duopoly" and why "voting with your wallet" doesn't work.

BTW, the world view of "supranational corps should be allowed to do whatever they want" is fascinating. Because the digital world as we know it literally couldn't exist without people running whatever they want on their computers.

@dmitriid for example Pebble that you mentioned.

No I’m not saying that at all. There are terms that developers accept, and if you don’t violate them you are not being kicked out of course.

Yes, there is a duopoly. But legislation that makes these two leave out useful features is not the right way forward. It doesn’t magically give us any more choice. It just makes things worse.

Why isn't Pebble "entitled" to similar functionality? You literally said "let others build their products and compete". Here's Pebble building a product, and Apple literally preventing them from competing, and literally preventing you from enjoying the same functionality with a competing product.

Apple's terms literally allow them to kick you out if you build "similar functionality" and they will literally set defaults to their shitty apps without a way to change it.

It's not the legislation that leaves out useful features. It's supranational corps literally saying "fuck you" to you, the user, and you are praising them for it, and saying they are not doing anything wrong.

2/2

@dmitriid just like Apple is not entitled to have CarPlay Ultra integration in every car. The car platform owners are free to choose which parts of their platform they want to open up for 3rd parties.

You're confusing the requirement for Apple to have its services on other platforms (no one is asking them to do that) with opening access and providing users with choice on their platform (what they are fighting tooth and nail).

Once again. If it was a car, Apple would literally orevent you from using any tires you want, or fill up at any gas station you want, and apparently you'd be oraising them for it.

Besides the fact that you don't even know that Apple literally kicks off or disadvantages developers the moment there's an Apple app/service/functionality they have to push.

Or besides the fact that you demand others to build their product and compete on merit, but somehow "Apple is entitled to do whatever they want".

At this point I'm tired of this circular discussion that keeps coming down to a shitty car analogy and no arguments except "trillion-dollar supranational corporation is doing nothing wrong".

Adieu.

@dmitriid likewise

Thom, a distro-agnostic tool 5d ago

@nstrm @dmitriid I can put whatever software and hardware I want in my car. What are you on about?

Nobody is going to stop me from putting an Android Auto/Apple Carplay box in my car. In fact, there's a thriving market for these types of boxes and conversions, many of which integrate into even very old cars as if they were stock. Would you accept it if Volvo prevented you from changing your head unit, or replacing a broken seat with a third-party one?

If yes, why not be similarly enraged at Apple in this case? Because Apple is a super extra special boy?

@thomholwerda @nstrm @dmitriid

HP van Braam 5d ago

This! Why are people considering it "Apples platform" or "Volvo's integration".

It's YOUR CAR, you paid for it. Why hell do you WANT to be bound by whatever weird corpo shenanigans led to you having to match your CAR to your PHONE to get it to work together.

It is CRAZY to me that that situation isn't insane to the people in this thread.

"Oh yeah, I want to buy a new car, oh no not that one because I own a Google Phone".

What?! Absolutely nuts.

@hp that is fair, do what you like with your products. But requiring the manufacturer to open up their platform to competitors, and build APIs for them (for free) is something completely different.

HP van Braam 5d ago

If the manufacturer doesn't tell you how their product works then you don't actually own it.

Your argument is "The company that made my phone should be able to force me to buy a car from a manufacturer that paid them too."

They already sold you the phone. There's nothing "magic" about CarPlay, it's just a refusal to explain how it works.

It's already there, and has to be for the feature to work.

They don't need to double or triple dip your wallet. They don't do EXTRA work.

@thomholwerda @dmitriid I think the level of integration should be up to the platform owner to decide. Yes you can put regular CarPlay in many cars but you can’t put CarPlay Ultra in. That require deep integration to the instrument cluster and more, someting that is not open for anyone.

Lenni

🖖5d ago

@thomholwerda @nstrm @dmitriid In most modern cars the head unit isn't a normal DIN/double DIN one with standard connectors that can be replaced though. It's some highly integrated custom part that can't even easily be taken out of it.

@Lenni @thomholwerda @nstrm

Which sucks, and we're likely to go through the same shit with car manufacturers in the bear future.

Especially since they look at these shitty companies and think "why the hell can't we extract all the money we can from customers and prevent anyone from doing anything.... in the name of customer satisfaction of course"