Prof. Sam LawlerIt's a Good Cloud Day. But the goats are very annoyed there was a teeny tiny bit of rain (they really do not like rain).
And now time for my morning radio interview. At least I had time for (most of) a cup of tea first.
hahaha oh no I forgot I was supposed to be on Google Meets for this interview not a phone call! Luckily my computer cooperated and the producer was very understanding. I just am wearing a ratty farm sweatshirt and didn't brush my hair and have a messy room in the background. Oops. Luckily I've got another interview for Saskatoon in 15 minutes so I can try to do better this time...
Interview 2 went much better (which is good, Saskatoon is where it's most likely that pieces would be found, if there are any pieces) and I remembered to say the email address I want people to send possible space junk finds to! AND I got a better camera setup and actually brushed my hair. But I'm somehow going to end up on CBC national news in my ratty farm sweatshirt AGAIN aren't I?
MariusA scary quick calculation: there are 10,375 Starlink satellites in orbit https://planet4589.org/space/con/conlist.html, all coming down within 5 years.
That's an *average* of 5 or 6 a day for the next 5 years. And the v2's are bigger than the v1's. v2's are (conservatively) 1000kg and (conservatively) half aluminum. That's 2.5-3 tonnes of aluminum per day. 8 times the natural infall rate of aluminum (and there's lots of other scary things like lithium). What will that do to our atmosphere?
SpaceX is awful.
Perrin42Wasn't that the plot of Seveneves?
Ángela Stella MatutinaHad the idea it involved an ablation cascade aka Kessler syndrome.
MidgePhoto@Photo55 @Perrin42 @sundogplanets
Remembering now! yeah, I really must read the book.
@angelastella
It is really quite good.
Separately, one of the discussions I've seen in #SciFi is of the minimum size of society for prolonged survival in Space.
Large.
I remember a good discussion about that topic on Charles Stross' weblog. If the idea is having modern industry, it could run to millions.
@angelastella
That's the one.
Various scifi authors have introduced ideas - rather deus ex machina ones - to reduce the number of bodies required to hold thouse skills and functions.
I suppose now YouTube etc is a bit of a start ;)
That's the one.
Various scifi authors have introduced ideas - rather deus ex machina ones - to reduce the number of bodies required to hold thouse skills and functions.
I suppose now YouTube etc is a bit of a start ;)
Sharing practical knowledge is a must. And it's the kind of thing we already do, not like molecular nanotechnology enabling cornucopia machines, or either versatile robots, or something else.
@angelastella
#JohnBrunner with Eptification - with a bad result - and #JoeHaldeman with some sort of overlays in #WorldsApart and assorted authors with "memory tapes and of course #TheMatrix "now I do!"
And in a less friendly way #LarryNiven with #Corpsicles and #RichardMorgan with the #DigitallyStoredHumans and #DigitallyFreightedHumans and uploading into a sleeve.
And a bunch more.
Yes, shortcuts to make the most of limited bodies. But to keep a closed ecology plus the mechanical part of the habitat and some mining/manufacturing capability there's no easy substitute for those bodies, and I'm afraid the number needed is still higher than expected.
What is known about how much will it mess up the ozone layer?
Seth of the Fediverse ⁂
~w00p~@sundogplanets
🌈 awesome, Humans invented yet another way to massively pollute the environment they depend on.
Aluminum rain, sweet
🥲
🌈 awesome, Humans invented yet another way to massively pollute the environment they depend on.
Aluminum rain, sweet
🥲
Lauren Weinstein@sundogplanets Glass-half full: If Musk tires of SpaceX all that crap will be out of orbit in short order.
Mastodon MigrationThere is no glass half full, they are sending more of it up all the time. The entire trillion dollar SpaceX IPO is predicated on pumping this satellite sewage into LEO.
@mastodonmigration @sundogplanets Better that the garbage isn't at orbits where it would hang around much longer.
Indeed, at the current Starlink orbit it will all come down within 25 years. They want to start using higher orbits which will never come down.
https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/116409691285680314
Albert CardonaAugust 5, 2026 isn't that far away ...
"There Will Come Soft Rains" by Ray Bradbury
https://www.btboces.org/Downloads/7_There%20Will%20Come%20Soft%20Rains%20by%20Ray%20Bradbury.pdf
@albertcardona I think about this short story quite frequently, but haven't read it in years! I didn't realize there's an exact date in it! Wow.
hallvors@sundogplanets @albertcardona and I read it for the first time today, thanks for sharing
AI6YR Ben
Spottyfox斑狐狸@albertcardona @sundogplanets Also have an animated version
Будет ласковый дождь / There Will Come Soft Rains (1984) [Eng CC]
Dave Fischer@spottyfox @albertcardona @sundogplanets
Apparently Bradbury was very popular in the Eastern Bloc. There's also a live-action Soviet Martian Chronicles. (And a bunch more. Low-budget not-very-good F 451, decent Veldt, etc.)
Les@albertcardona @sundogplanets Love this! Love Bradbury's crisp writing style and searing cynicism. Thanks!
phooky@albertcardona @sundogplanets i didn't realize that There Will Come Soft Rains day is coming! I've got to get all my home automation stuff set up!
Karen E. Lund 💙💛@albertcardona @sundogplanets Story downloaded. Calendar marked.
Saguaro LynxOoh, this must be from the original edition of "The Martian Chronicles", published in 1950.
This past spring, we read & analyzed this story for a college writing course. Our version is set in the year 2057.
Wikipedia shows that the dates in the book, including this story, "advanced" by 31 years during the 1997 edition.
I first read this story on my own during high school (last decade of the Cold War).
It registered strongly then and still does so today!
8- )
Eric LawtonAnd the US government keeps giving "approval" for more, although this is ostensibly only approval for launch, not for occupation of an orbit.
Effectively claiming jurisdiction over Low Earth Orbit, which is colonialism on a global scale.
NIX@sundogplanets As a Chinese citizen, I hope to one day use Starlink to bypass the GFW and access the open Internet. SpaceX is doing amazing work!
@nixzhu I'm sorry that's what you are forced to depend on. Enjoy it before SpaceX starts Kessler Syndrome, I guess?
@sundogplanets If the Kessler Syndrome actually triggers, we’ll just have to launch a fleet of specialized 'cleaner satellites' to clear the debris field and restore the orbit.
@nixzhu Good luck inventing that.
Cy
C.Suthorn 
@[email protected] @[email protected] i would answer nixshu, but it looks, i am blocked? Elon Musk sells Teslas in china. Therefore china probably told him to geoblock starlink in china or loose the chinese market.
@nixzhu
But you don't need anything in low earth orbit ( #LEO ) for that.
Arthur C Clarke originally pointed out that 3 satellites in the geostationary orbit could provide up, down, and sideways, communication for the whole planet surface.
You probably want a shorter delay and a lower power budget for your relay than that, but I submit that you do not need to reduce either to the levels LEO allows. Something between GEO and LEO would work nicely and be easier to track for comms.
Paul E. McKenney@nixzhu @sundogplanets We just need heavy industry in orbit so that the potential and kinetic energy of those satellites can be recycled. ;-)
Pascal 🇪🇺 🇺🇦@sundogplanets
unintended terraforming?
"Scientists are eager to understand how these particles of aerospace debris interact with other aerosols in the stratosphere because of anticipated increases in space traffic and their potential impact on the ozone layer. They also want to explore the impact of possible future proposals to seed the stratosphere with millions of tons of sulfur aerosols to slow the rate of global warming by reflecting sunlight back to space."
https://research.noaa.gov/noaa-scientists-link-exotic-metal-particles-in-the-upper-atmosphere-to-rockets-satellites/
unintended terraforming?
"Scientists are eager to understand how these particles of aerospace debris interact with other aerosols in the stratosphere because of anticipated increases in space traffic and their potential impact on the ozone layer. They also want to explore the impact of possible future proposals to seed the stratosphere with millions of tons of sulfur aerosols to slow the rate of global warming by reflecting sunlight back to space."
https://research.noaa.gov/noaa-scientists-link-exotic-metal-particles-in-the-upper-atmosphere-to-rockets-satellites/
Sam Oldman 🐀@sundogplanets Also, every piece of aluminum that they burn or drop in the ocean is aluminum that could be used for other things.
A very productive mine in Australia is closing because it's run out of ore. Copper mines are extracting ever larger amounts of rock to get smaller specks of copper sulphate.
There's no thought for the future.
A very productive mine in Australia is closing because it's run out of ore. Copper mines are extracting ever larger amounts of rock to get smaller specks of copper sulphate.
There's no thought for the future.
GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺@sundogplanets Horrible!
lin11c@sundogplanets
We must make sure that what comes down does not go back up. No Starlinks! I wonder if they are still shooting them up there. My guess is yes. We have to stop this Monster Musk in every way possible.
We must make sure that what comes down does not go back up. No Starlinks! I wonder if they are still shooting them up there. My guess is yes. We have to stop this Monster Musk in every way possible.
lp0 on fire 
@lin11c @sundogplanets, well, given that they'll be burnt up on re-entry (entirely? If not, I can think of a few places where I'd like them to land), I don't think that they'll be in suitable condition to be sent back up…
@lp0_on_fire @sundogplanets
I meant no new Starlink replacements! Way too many satellites up there already. I hope the whole Musk enterprise goes belly up. He definitely needs to lose all his government contracts. He hates American democracy.
I meant no new Starlink replacements! Way too many satellites up there already. I hope the whole Musk enterprise goes belly up. He definitely needs to lose all his government contracts. He hates American democracy.
Refurio AnachroIt makes me think of a recent proposal for terraforming mars by introducing tiny amounts of aluminium to the atmosphere.
Toast, Anonymous Fedi Fungus@sundogplanets what is the GHG factor of aluminum?
🍉 –Hans Bot– 🙃@sundogplanets @mastodonmigration Now imagine having a million data centers in orbit, from musk alone. Before long, every few seconds a satellite will come down – with all its payload burning into the atmosphere
@hansbot @mastodonmigration It's every 3 minutes for a million satellites with 5 year lifetimes 😭
@sundogplanets @mastodonmigration Yes. And it will likely not become a monopoly. Two competitors in the US, one in the EU, one in China, one in India, and it’s down to 2/min. To replace these, they would need a dozen or so launches per day, adding to the looming environmental disaster
Guillaume Rossolini@sundogplanets as I understand it, it’s even worse
These alloys don’t vanish, their chemical components mix with the air, they keep floating high up and they cause changes
/cc @keithdpatch
Risk of Ozone Layer Destruction from Internet Satellite Swarms and Rocket Fuel
int%rmitt]nt sig^al. ...~!...)@sundogplanets
Being an old man, when you say v1 and v2 my first mental images are these.
Whilst the effect of these are decidedly different in detail, their destructive nature is not.
Being an old man, when you say v1 and v2 my first mental images are these.
Whilst the effect of these are decidedly different in detail, their destructive nature is not.
chuckbenz@sundogplanets any simple numbers yet to indicate whether Elon > Thomas Midgley Jr (leaded gas, cfcs) in terms of environmental impact? Or are we unwilling part of the experiment that will find out?
poison punk@sundogplanets and probably killing people & wildlife too.
django@sundogplanets how are they even insurable? Who pays for KIS & property damage? Assuming they don’t have a mechanism to land safely… 😬
SecondUniverse (she/her/they)@sundogplanets Move fast and break things. We'll fix the atmosphere in the next iteration. In fact, if we screw the atmosphere hard enough, they will pay us to fix it.