Mastodawn

Here's the problem: To even turn things back to the way they were 20 years ago would take a President as ruthless and unchallenged as Trump himself. Or a President, House, Senate, SCOTUS and Federal judiciary that would be completely behind that level of reform. Plus a ruthless purging of all the apparatchiks that Trump and his team have ensconced throughout the federal bureaucracy.

Tell me truthfully, do you believe that that will ever happen? Is there any doubt in your mind that if a Democratic Presidential nominee manages to win they will do ANYTHING to roll back the huge surges we've made toward fascism under Presidents from both parties over the last 40 years?

Is there any question that a Democratic president and Congress would just insist that it was time to look forward, not back, and to make sure that we have a nice diverse group of people running ICE, DHS and the border patrol? Maybe a little more diversity among the staff and inmates of the death camps that Trump has built?

If anything, aren't the Democrats likely to pass MORE funding for the military and ICE and DHS? Will they do a single goddamned thing to rein in Israel and it's genocide of Arabs in the Middle East?

If that's all we can expect under the best circumstances from the Democratic Party, why should we settle for that instead of the complete overthrow of the system that the world desperately needs? Under the status quo our extinction due to climate change and the effects of war will just be a little slower. Which hardly seems a kindness.

I await replies.

#Politics #Extinction #Democrats #Fascism

Just to be clear, I'm not telling anyone not to vote. Voting is like masturbation; pointless and inconvenient, but if it makes you feel good it's your business. Hell, you do it in a private booth after all!

But don't EVER think that the people will be allowed to change the system through voting. And don't be surprised when we keep moving towards fascism no matter who wins, because the Democrats are JUST as much the servants of the rich as the Republicans are. The oligarchs own both parties. That's a matter of public record. Just look at their big donors. And studies have more than proven that government serves the rich AGAINST the interests of the working class.

So: Vote if you want. Jerk that lever to your heart's content. But don't think for a minute that that's enough to save us from fascism. Because it isn't.

And wash your hands afterwards.

Official Kakistocracy Jester 🪓3d ago

@Quasit If the goal is to improve the country at the benefit of the people, think a revolution would be a lot easier and more effective. Both parties have demonstrated that they are incapable of carrying out even the most basic tasks to keep the lights on in this country. I’d go as far to say that both parties are committed to *not* changing things.

Flash Mob Of One 3d ago

@OGJester @Quasit Considering the rigged primaries against Sanders, yes. They even argued for rigged primaries in court when they were later sued for it.

Ω 🌍 Gus Posey 3d ago

@Quasit Democrats have always repaired the damage caused by Republicans. Additionally, Donald has inspired a whole generation of younger Democrats who are eager to restore balance and eliminate every trace of this nightmare regime.

micchiato 🎋3d ago

I’m sorry but WTF are you talking about?

@micchiato @Gustodon @Quasit

Reality, that's what he's talking about.

micchiato 🎋3d ago

No evidence of a reality basis. But keep telling yourself that

Ω 🌍 Gus Posey 3d ago

@micchiato Within American politics, there is only one group that includes genuine ideas for making things better. Posting examples of how Democrats act like Republicans may be reassuring but it ignores the fact that compassionate, sympathetic people exist and some of them are politicians. None of them are Republicans.

@Gustodon @micchiato

Lol, no.

micchiato 🎋3d ago

Maybe a handful of Democrats at most. They will not save you.

micchiato 🎋3d ago

Since @Gustodon blocked me, here is a screenshot of the comment he made to me to provide context for my reply.

Mason Loring Bliss 3d ago

@Gustodon @micchiato I've got some thoughts about this. I'd point to both the Greens and the DSA as groups that are genuinely loaded with concrete ideas for making things better. However, both groups are blocked by our deeply broken system.

This breakage that exists to keep the red and blue teams in power is what makes people want to look to revolution - even violent revolution - for an answer, because it's frustrating seing nothing change. The blue team, if they come back into power, wants to go back to what we had. That path has a bad end for everyone, even if it's a slower path to Hell than the red path, which runs towards our self-destruction gleefully.

But there are some problems with revolution that make it a bad bet.

Let's look at the most relevant, visible example of violent revolution - the American Revolution. If we fast-forwarded a thousand years and looked at the highlight reel, the American Revolution will probably be remembered for giving us the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and consequent annihilation of the civilian populations there, more than a century of violent regime change in the name of Capitalism, and probably the history books will cap us off with Trump.

The French Revolution started off with a bang - read about the Reign of Terror, and then check out the consistent (until recently) support for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

How the collapse of the Soviet Union will be recorded probably depends on whether they can ditch Putin.

If we succumb to the temptation to conduct a violent revolution, even if it succeeds we won't likely have anything measurably different from or better than what we've got now.

Happily, rather than just saying we're doomed, I'm here to offer a better way.

Many (or most?) states have mechanisms for ballot initiatives, and for many (or most?) states, those supercede the legislative process. They are the will of the people.

What we can do is use ballot initiatives to force change. The most productive change I think we can force is to institute ranked choice voting everywhere. It might not be perfect, but it's worlds better than the two-party deathgrip we're in now. A great recent example of what RCV gives us is Zohran Mamdami.

If that seems like it's going to be tough to do - it is! And the reason it's tough is because we have to overcome the root cause of ALL the issues we're facing. We need to reach our fellow citizens and convince them to act ; convince them they *can* act and that it *will* make a difference, and that things *can* be better.

We have big issues to resolve, like the existence of billionaires and the capitalist system that allows them to exist. We need to repair our standing in the global community, and become the nation we all know we can be if we really try. We need to institute a real social safety net and take care of people, and throw off the brainwashing of the oligarchy that has us pointing at each other instead of pointing up at the oligarchs who are hoarding all the cookies.

We can do this, but the only sustainable outcome comes from our reaching each other and moving together. And that will be hard. But it's what we have to do if we really want to do BETTER than what we've accomplished so far. I'm not aware of a single nation on Earth that does things right, but if we pour our lives into it, we can become a model for a healthy representative democracy with social welfare and the good of the people at its heart.

@Gustodon @Quasit

Pretty sure this is one of those both sides are the same leftists posts. These people, like MAGA, aren't interested in reality. They want you to believe that both sides are the same in spite of all the evidence.

Ask them how they feel about the 14 million poor people projected to die because the GOP cut foreign aid and see if you get a response. They will do just like MAGA and talk around that reality.

micchiato 🎋3d ago

The good cop and the bad cop aren’t the same, but they are functional parts of the same confidence game.

@Gustodon @Quasit

@micchiato @Gustodon @Quasit

So you're fine with the 14 million deaths?

micchiato 🎋3d ago

Like you’re fine with Biden deporting 20,000 Haitians or Obama droning more Arabs than any POTUS before him, including war criminals like Dubya.

@Gustodon @Quasit

@micchiato @Gustodon @Quasit

Obama didn't kill more people than any other president before. This is frankly, an easily disproven talking point by the left who worships FDR although he bombed civilians as a matter of choice and killed 40,000 in Dresden alone.

micchiato 🎋3d ago

Don’t worship FDR. For someone who claims to cling to reality you assume too much.

Okay, so who is a good president in your opinion?

@HakeemG @micchiato

LOL, that's like asking who was a good slave owner 🤦‍♂️

@RD4Anarchy @micchiato

So nobody, you have nothing.

@HakeemG @micchiato

@RD4Anarchy @micchiato

So edgy, reminds me of the MAGA edgelords. Of course most of them are teenage boys.

@HakeemG @micchiato

"I'm not interested in ideological BS or delusional fantasies."

Me neither. That's why I don't accept presidents, billionaires, or borders as things we should support or believe in. They are based on ideological BS and delusional fantasies, and as long as they exist there is no way you're going to "leave [your] kids a better world". No. Fucking. Way.

@micchiato @HakeemG
I was wondering who you were talking to, and then I realized that I muted him some time ago. Maybe I should have blocked him instead. I have no tolerance for DNC shills! They are agents of fascism and human extinction.

@Quasit @micchiato

🤡🤡🤡

Fluffy Kitty Cat 3d ago

@HakeemG @Gustodon @Quasit will president newsome undo it? History predicts the answer is no, and once a Democrat presides over it it will fade from discussion and become fully normalized

@fluffykittycat @Gustodon @Quasit

No idea what you're asking about undoing or why you think it's the Democrats responsibility to clean up the messes caused by politicians who were elected by the American public. Even kindergarteners know you clean up your own messes.

Fluffy Kitty Cat 3d ago

@HakeemG @Gustodon @Quasit I'm sorry what? You think that it's not the responsibility of Democrats to undo the things Republicans do? What's the fucking point of electing them then?

@fluffykittycat @Gustodon @Quasit

I think it's their responsibility to govern like grownups. Which they do every time they're elected. I think it's the American people's responsibility to vote like grownups.

Maybe next time don't elect the guy whose only accomplishments have been cutting taxes for the rich, killing people with bad science, etc... Trump promised the bloody deportation of a million immigrants and people voted for him or sat out, shameful.

@Gustodon @Quasit

Deluded.

Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷3d ago

@Gustodon @Quasit
Biden had four years to straighten the country, and couldn’t even put Trump back in his box. Far too many Democrats also have their hands in the cookie jar. Which is why Bernie Sanders never had a chance.

@Gustodon @Quasit

Paul SomeoneElse 3d ago

i don't think that person is real

to be clear i was talking about:

@[email protected] <-- not real

Ask your mother if I'm real.

@Gustodon maybe pop your bubble and start to get real for once. We live in hell. We are slaves. Our rulers wont free us. Its up to us and the first step is knowing.

Ω 🌍 Gus Posey 3d ago

@thejacenallen What does that even mean? Burn it all down? Guess what, I can't afford the machine guns and battle trucks that are necessary for that. You know who can? Republicans.

@Gustodon so you think revolution is like mad max? Hmmm i wonder why you think something so preposterous. Perhaps decades of brainwashing from the oligarchs to make you give up well before the fight even begins? A captured mind will not free you. Free yourself! Please!

Ω 🌍 Gus Posey 3d ago

@thejacenallen You're all so condescending, like you know something other people don't. Grow up.

CaliCarol 3d ago

I do believe that this crisis has precipitated an understanding that all institutions, including the Democratic Party, had become corrupt. I personally have come to that understanding after the loss in '24, the consequences of which are every bit as catastrophic as I had feared they'd be. I thought the radical left who wanted to burn it all down were being childish. I was wrong. They were right. And here we are. They were also correct that this process will get us to a better future.

@jawarajabbi @Quasit

So now that the Nazis are hunting down black and brown people you're convinced that the institutions were the problem all along? I don't know what privilege pass you have, but I can assure you the most vulnerable segments in society know the difference.

CaliCarol 3d ago

@HakeemG @Quasit

And? What's your point?

Lightfighter 3d ago

@Quasit Even if all changes for the last 20 years were rolled back it wouldn't solve the problem. Trump has shown many of the weaknesses of the Constitution and laws of the US. Without significant structural changes, fascism is only an election away.

Tiota Sram 3d ago

@Lightfighter @Quasit indeed one can pseudo-empirically ask the question "do Democratic institutions protect counties against dictatorship" and look around at countries like Italy, Hungary, Britain, and Israel to see that they do not.

Liberals love to ask anarchists "but how would your society of free association ever prevent a dictator from rising to power? It's an excellent question that every person should be able to try to answer about their favorite political system, but it seems the liberals have forgotten to ask it about theirs. We can see right now in very fine detail exactly how the "checks and balances" can be systematically dismantled, sidestepped, or just ignored. Even if the system eventually reins Trump in, its failure to stop any of his worst impulses before they happened makes it feel like a very hollow sort of success. Alex Pretti doesn't benefit from a (very hypothetical at this point) swing back towards a less corrupt and fascist system.

Anarchist Trans Ace Pirate 3d ago

@tiotasram @Lightfighter @Quasit

when "checks and balances" are taught no one bothers to ask how that works when all parties involved do nothing

Lightfighter 3d ago

@coolcalmcollected @tiotasram @Quasit There are no mechanisms to enforce most of the checks and balances. SCOTUS rulings are just opinions written on paper. Congressional subpoenas the same. While the Executive has an army of LEO's and the Army.

@Lightfighter @coolcalmcollected @tiotasram

The only real check or balance is the people themselves. We should have risen up and overthrown the rich bastards DECADES ago.

Lightfighter 3d ago

@Quasit @coolcalmcollected @tiotasram They have done a great job of propaganda on us. The anti-communist/socialist, pro evangelical christiian positions have been drilled into us from childhood since the 40's has had its desired effect. Our "liberal" party is closer to Reagan republicans than anything, and if we gathered every leftist in the country I think we'd have trouble filling two professional football stadiums.

Tiota Sram 3d ago

@Lightfighter @Quasit @coolcalmcollected they are currently providing plenty of opportunities to start changing that though.

Anarchist Trans Ace Pirate 3d ago

@Lightfighter @Quasit @tiotasram

whenever I see a post about "the left" it's 99% about American democrats which isn't remotely "the left" since (bare minimum) clinton

@coolcalmcollected @Lightfighter @tiotasram
The Democrats are fascists, and have been for a long time. Their job is to play leftists on TV, and thereby discredit the whole concept of a left in America. They are the primary shock troops of the oligarchs against true leftism. And they really love their work, because they hate our guts.

Lightfighter 3d ago

@Quasit @coolcalmcollected @tiotasram The only people they will instantly attack is someone slightly to their left.

@Lightfighter @coolcalmcollected @tiotasram
And whenever they are dealing with Republicans, they can't fling themselves on their backs and spread their legs fast enough!

It's amazing that Democratic voters don't realize that that's not a bug or a weakness. It's their whole reason for being: to lubricate the entry of fascism in America, and normalize it.

MissConstrue 3d ago

@coolcalmcollected @Lightfighter @Quasit @tiotasram

I tend, semantically, to use left, lowercase to describe anything left of William F. Buckley, whereas I use Left, uppercase to describe people/ideas with egalitarian or working class focus.

Granted, state control of assets also falls under Left, but at some point on both ends of the spectrum, you circle around and end up espousing the ideas of the other side, which...I dunno man, I can't explain tankies.

Tiota Sram 3d ago

@MissConstrue @coolcalmcollected @Lightfighter @Quasit it turns out that politics is not even remotely 1-dimensional, and while I don't have better language sitting around ready to go, we desperately need some.

Tiota Sram 3d ago

@Lightfighter @coolcalmcollected @Quasit also worth noting that the founders made choices like giving suffrage only to wealthy white landowners in order to create a system that helped a wealthy industrialist class take power from the old nobility, but from the start all the talk of "freedom" was just window dressing to get the commoners to go along. They explicitly choose mechanisms like the electoral college to prevent the common people from having too much power, meaning that the entire system of checks and balances was never designed to prevent the concentration of power entirely.

Obviously it was supposed to prevent the exact situation we find ourselves in now, but it didn't work (and no similar system can work in the long run) because power corrupts, and any system that tries to prevent the corruption of laws using laws is doomed to failure.

What the present moment also shows is that power is not as simple to wield as the fascists would like, and that centralized power inevitably crumbles. Minnesota was able to break ICE not through military prowess but through pressure of norms, Iran is able to resist Trump's overwhelming military power through persistence and economic revenge, Assad's regime couldn't endure as popular support finally eroded and international allies were distracted, etc. None of these offers a simple or painless path to defeating fascist power, but they show things aren't as hopeless as the fascists would like us to believe. Masses of people organized autonomously into formations of resistance can absolutely stand up to opponents that seem to have overwhelming forces because those forces also boil down to a lot of individual enforcers and deploying them is contingent on the backing of an even wider public that can be swayed by a lot of things.

The point is that the ultimate defense against corruption and fascism, with or without official checks and balances, is a politically active mass of common people.

Douglas Edwards

@Lightfighter @Quasit As Seth #Ackerman pointed out in 2011, the #USA #Constitution IS A CHARTER FOR PLUTOCRACY.

Ackerman's "Burn the Constitution" is a classic.

https://jacobin.com/2011/03/burn-the-constitution/

Burn the Constitution

The pitfalls of constitutionalism.

RootWyrm 🇺🇦

@Quasit man, the replies really have the fascists and LLM bots out in force.

@Quasit I agree completely. This will require a unified party across government and the will of the people to make/see it happen -- which they won't. Our political system is now confirmed tp ne fundamentally flawed and rather than be fixable, will simply perpetuate gridlock or chaos.

I used to think deTrumping would be a multi-generational process. These days, I'm not so sure.