Mastodawn

The Epstein Class believes that providing citizens with enough money to live a decent life while not requiring them to work will spoil them and turn them into useless marshmallows with toxic ideas, anti-social behaviors, and will actively tear at the social fabric.

Many experiments in Universal Basic Income have proven this to NOT be the case.

However, empirically, it turns out that giving someone 50 billion dollars causes them to cease making useful contributions to society, turns them into useless marshmallows with toxic ideas, anti-social behaviors, and they actively tear at the social fabric.

Netraven 2d ago

@mralancooper I just want unlimited free time to design strange tech that will never get used and fix every computer in a 50 mile radius. WHAT HAPPENED TO PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS?

@mralancooper to accumulate that much money they already had to be that kind of person tbh

MrAlanCooper 2d ago

@emenel Yes. A few times during my career I found myself facing such moral choices and knew that I was dooming myself to not becoming rich. I realized that others were making choices I considered immoral.

But I also watched several friends and acquaintances become rich and saw how their personalities changed as their lives changed.

The sheer volume of money takes on a life of itself, and that life-of-money slowly washes away the life-of-humanity. I'm no psychologist but the effect of billions is reminiscent of the effect of combat or years of incarceration. I think it's a form of PTSD. They become a prisoner of their money, a willing caretaker of their fortune. They surround themselves with people tied to them only by their vast wealth and then lose contact with real people and real needs. They are empowered to dismiss any contrary ideas as wrong simply because they are contrary.

@mralancooper yes, absolutely. i've also met people like that, and seen the transformation happen ... it's disturbing.

MrAlanCooper 2d ago

@emenel Well, truth be told, there was actually a few years lag between making choices and realizing that I was not choosing to make lots of money.

@mralancooper same here. tbh i found myself basically choosing over and over to not have the career my peers were having …

Steve Purcell 1d ago

@emenel @mralancooper Yes, very much the same here.

GhostOnTheHalfShell 2d ago

@mralancooper @emenel

Psychological research is 100% behind your observations here

@emenel @mralancooper Sadly it seems to be "both", there's enough research to show that having more money/power than most people fucks your brain, but you're also not wrong in that most people who acquire so much wealth did so because their brain was already fucked.

Jack William Bell 2d ago

Statement of fact: Being absurdly rich results in an isolation from reality and being surrounded by people who will feed you information you want to hear and otherwise flatter your worst instincts; all for money or to serve their own interests.

Theory: Therefore, being absurdly rich is a risk factor for mental health, especially for anyone already prone to narcissism or delusional thinking or who lacks self-awareness. It's like smoking, but for crazy…

@jackwilliambell @mralancooper I think in many cases, those personality traits are what got them their absurd wealth in the first place. You have to be willing to step on people without compunction.

MrAlanCooper 1d ago

@kimlockhartga @jackwilliambell
Yeah, could be. But, "everyone has their price," so they say, and even principled people can fall under enough pressure. Page and Brin were genuine geek engineers whose boldly stated position was "Do no evil." So, I think it's the money. Millions aren't enough to move people's needle, but billions are.

Jack William Bell 1d ago

@mralancooper @kimlockhartga

Also, there are those who hit the uterus jackpot and are born rich. Most of them end up the same kind of special flowers; only a very few manage to retain their essential humanity when raised in the hothouses of the rich.

There is even research on this, albeit not focused on the extremely rich we are discussing:

> https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/wealth-empathy

And there are exceptions which prove the rule, even among those who got there the hard-nosed way. Chuck Feeney, for example.

MrAlanCooper 1d ago

@jackwilliambell @kimlockhartga
"Uterus jackpot" I love it!

As I tell most everyone, the way to succeed in life is to choose better parents.

Jack William Bell 1d ago

@mralancooper @kimlockhartga

I must admit that is a paraphrase of a @pluralistic saying. Not original to me.

MrAlanCooper 1d ago

@jackwilliambell @kimlockhartga @pluralistic Of course it is. That guy has ALL the cool sayings.

The Casual Critic 2d ago

@mralancooper it's that, but also that they fear that with enough money, free time, energy and feeling of security, citizens might discover they can organise to demand even better lives.

Precarious people don't protest.

Aknorals⚑Ⓐ 🏴2d ago

@mralancooper People with access to UBI are harder to traffic. That's why they don't want people, including minors, to have access.

@LunaDragofelis

Дими́трий 2d ago

will always boost #ubi

Дими́трий 2d ago

will always boost #ubi

@mralancooper its rational for them to proceed this way, their predecessors learned in the 1960s that if workers have security and repose they dare to ask for things they would never felt entitled to in a state of misery and degradation. Tragically, this plan has been very successful. Every year of degrading conditions and political betrayal habituated the public to learned helplessness, and spurred an aimless resentment, the latter becoming a raw material to further their designs

@mralancooper it has been depressing over the course of the 10s (and the last few years) to consistently see dissidents be chided as childish and immature for demanding basic things our grandparents and our parents had. Even just asking that things *not get worse* was portrayed as unrealistic and delusional. I think a lot about the occupy movement in 2011 and the way it was snuffed out by the political establishment in the wake of the 2008 crisis, it was a terrible harbinger for things to come

OutOfSpace - 不割席 2d ago

@mralancooper I love science!

Bebadefabo 2d ago

@mralancooper didn't forget the rape. Billionaires are statistically more likely than anyone else to have participated in rapping children.

Bugbear Butch 2d ago

@mralancooper I don't think they believe that so much as they tell us that, and what they believe is that it will be harder to exploit a populace that has their needs met.

GhostOnTheHalfShell 2d ago

The world’s most unconsciously ironic people ever right?

@mralancooper They judge everyone by themselves. The people who tell you everyone is lazy and won't work if the money is too good are people who won't work if the money is too good.

The same as the people who think everyone's in it for themselves, they're confessing their own sociopathy.

Hannah Clover 1d ago

@mralancooper I would edit Wikipedia more than I already do if I didn't have to worry about my financial stability

Jeff Atwood 1d ago

@mralancooper check out https://blog.codinghorror.com/launching-the-rural-guaranteed-minimum-income-initiative/ and https://staygold.us

Launching The Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

It's been a year since I invited Americans to join us in a pledge to Share the American Dream: 1. Support organizations you feel are effectively helping those most in need across America right now. 2. Within the next five years, also contribute public dedications of time or funds towards

Coding Horror

Paul McO'Smith III 1d ago

@mralancooper cf. pensions.

samiamsam 1d ago

HA!

FACT

johnny anhedonic 1d ago

@mralancooper i don't think they believe that, it's just what they have to say because saying “we don't want to pay you enough to have food and shelter because then there would be less money for us, and you are an extremely replaceable resource” would be less aspirational.

Nuwagaba Gift 1d ago

@thegarbagebird
If we could have our own food and shelter without having to pay for them, would that make us free from them?

johnny anhedonic 22h ago

@nuwagaba2 it would certainly help.

Nuwagaba Gift 16h ago

@thegarbagebird
That's great. Can i share with you about my project?

johnny anhedonic 14h ago

@nuwagaba2 sure, lay it on me

Nuwagaba Gift 11h ago

@thegarbagebird
It's about fighting hunger in my community, I work with 12 young volunteer farmers to make this a reality by growing food for the needy, educate local farmers with advanced agricultural skills to help them improve on their production as well equip beginner farmers with required tools like seeds , fertilisers and organic pestcides to help them produce the best out of their gardens as well combat climate change through tree planting. Would you like some updates about it?

@mralancooper Accusations and confessions from the idle rich.