Poking around the AD&D GM’s Guide definitely has advice I feel is very counter to a lot of neo-old school thinking.
“The final word, then, is the game. Read how and why the system is as if is, follow the parameters, and then cut portions as needed to maintain excitement.”
1/4
“For example, the rules call for wandering monsters, but these can be not only irritating - if not deadly - but the appearance of such con actually spoil a game by interfering with an orderly expedition. You have set up an area full of clever tricks and traps, populated it with well-thought-out creature complexes, given clues about it to pique players’ interest,“
2/4
“and the group has worked hard to supply themselves with everything by way of information and equipment they will need to face and overcome the imagined perils. They are gathered together and eager to spend an enjoyable evening playing their favorite game, with the expectation of going to a new, strange area and doing their best to triumph. They are willing to accept the hazards of the dice, be it loss of items, wounding, insanity, disease, death, as long as the process is exciting.”
3/4
“But lo!, everytime you throw the ”monster die” a wandering nasty is indicated, and the party’s strength is spent trying to fight their way into the area. Spells expended, battered and wounded, the characters trek back to their base. Expectations have been dashed, and probably interest too, by random chance. Rather than spoil such an otherwise enjoyable time, omit the wandering monsters indicated by the die.” AD&D GMG
How very not OSR that is. 🤣
4/4
“A few brief words are necessary to insure that the reader has actually obtained a game form which he or she desires. Of the two approaches to hobby games today, one is best defined as the realism-simulation school and the other as the game school. AD&D is assuredly on adherent of the latter school. It does not stress any realism (in the author’s opinion an absurd effort at best considering the topic!). It does little to attempt to simulate anything either.”
5/6
“ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek to use imagination and creativity.”
6/6
“An example of the use of wisdom can be given by noting that while the intelligent character will know that smoking is harmful to him, he may well lack the wisdom to stop (this writer may well fall into this category).”
7/7
@golgaloth to be fair, a lot of the old school crowd focus is on B/X or OD&D. AD&D is kinda a minority of play. But it is a weird beast.
I’ve seen quotes from Gygax that says if you aren’t playing AD&D as written, you aren’t playing his game. But his own advice is cut what isn’t fun. 🤷🏼♂️
I somehow stumbled through figuring out how to play. Although I quickly moved to Palladium Fantasy. It had skills! And ascending AC [AR] 19 years before D&D. 😅
I can see how a lot of people go back to B/X, written by someone who can make cohesive and comprehensive rules!
AD&D GM Guide is a mess organizationally.
@deinol @golgaloth I had played Basic before, and it was what taught me how to play.
What the DMG did was make me want to build worlds.
I started in 1984 with 4 products. I was 7.
AD&D Player’s Handbook
AD&D DM’s Guide
B1-9 In Search of Adventure
Middle-Earth Role-Playing [MERP]
One of these things is not like the other, and even more incomprehensible than Gygax.
I think it was the B modules that really taught me how to run.
Red Box did wonders. The “walk you through a mini adventure” section really helped teach people. It makes it a little weird as a reference, because the first half of the book isn’t as helpful once you’ve done it, but it’s still a remarkably good intro to gaming.
@deinol
I have always stood by the principal that the "rules" of any roleplaying game are, at best, "guidelines".
Anyone who says otherwise is missing the point.
This is also why "RPG" video games always fall so flat. There is no nuance to them, no flexibility, no (dare I say it) soul, no matter how good the storytelling.
Trust and consistency is definitely important. But role-playing isn’t magic. And even magic there are sets of rules you can decide to play. Magic commander and standard and draft all operate differently.
Or GURPS is an even more perfect example. GURPS is a toolkit to build a game from. Every time you run a GURPS game you leave more than half the system off the table. Are you using space ships? Psionics? Magic? Super powers? Martial arts?
@lkh @rdm @deinol Indeed. That reminds me of the people who say that the reason by Monopoly takes so long and causes so many fights is because of all the house rules.
The rules were written for a reason, and when you think it's fun to add things like "Landing on Free Parking gives you all the money in the middle" (it doesn't; it just means you don't have to pay anyone, which is a godsend in the late game), or landing on Go means collecting double, you're asking for trouble.
The game is carefully balanced to play in a certain length of time, and anything that increases the amount of money in circulation will automatically increase the length of time that the average game takes, which will naturally increase everyone's frustration and irritability.
If you understand that, and you still want to add those house rules, then go ahead, and do it with your eyes open.
It's the same with TTPGS. Rules are *rules*. And they've been carefully and thoroughly playtested and the designers know all the reasons they exist and the implications of them being there. Before you houserule, understand exactly what and why and what effect it's going to have on your game.
In my opinion. :-)
@lkh @rdm @deinol you're right. And it does so brutally effectively. Particularly the "all properties must be auctioned" rule, which is designed to make the game flow quicker. Unless you get really unlucky with your rolls, it only takes a few goes around before all the properties are owned. At which point, the fate of the one who owns the least of them is generally sealed.
It's not all that much fun, and someone on the old Dicebreaker YouTube channel once commented that the reason he doesn't like it is because there's literally zero player agency; it's all luck. But I put it to you that that's kinda the point. ;-)
Try my Monopoly Legacy variant!
After each game, record which player owns each property. Next game, you play your children. Start with $200 and the deeds to your parent’s properties.
Enjoy!
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