Randahl FinkThis is huge! For the first time in over two years, Ukraine has begun taking back their land, resulting in a net territorial gain in February, according to Finnish OSI group Blackbird.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Davide Alimonti@randahl This is not coming for free though as expenditures of Europe+US surpass €300 bn and death toll is in the several hundreds of thousands.
This is not a football match
This is not a football match
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIEStell the kremlin that, not us
putin and the kremlin have shown time and time and time again that dialog does not work. they are dishonorable. they keep no agreements. they have no intention of meeting peace. for them, dialog is just a tactic to twist to their advantage, and any "peace "is temporary in order for them to rearm, and then attack again on a stupid lie
you are very naive, or straight up lying, about what putin and the kremlin are and what they represent
@benroyce @randahl Yours is a very simplistic view of the events unfolding. It's in your rights to take the parts of Ukraine, however it is undeniable that this war is also a consequence of exploiting the change of leadership in Ukraine to turn it into a US-NATO outpost . Russia escalated the war, but this was not the only cause. EU is intentionally stalling the negotiations by proposing unfeisable terms such as european army presence in Ukraine
😂 😂 😂
vatniks are so fucking easy to sniff out
NATO did not expand east, geopolitics professor
eastern europe ran screaming and pounding on the door to be let in
if you figure out why, what worried them, you might begin to catch a glimmer of honesty apart from your "blame the victim" stupid easy bullshit you push here
bullshit that you fell for as a pathetic moron lapping up hilarious kremlin lies
or that you are pushing here as the putin boot licking loser you are
@benroyce @randahl Wow! Labeling thoughts different than yours as foreign propaganda is not unprecedented.
I'm sorry that you are getting angry - but this will not change the real world. I invite you and who is reading to read more about the history of Eastern Europe from qualified sources and most importantly start reflecting a bit on the mechanisms that cause wars
I'm sorry that you are getting angry - but this will not change the real world. I invite you and who is reading to read more about the history of Eastern Europe from qualified sources and most importantly start reflecting a bit on the mechanisms that cause wars
ah yes
the "noble differences of opinion" defense from the lying sleazebag vatnik
*anyone* who buys this "russia had reasons because NATO expansion" is a complete and utter moron, or a complete and utter liar
that's all you are and all you represent with your putin bootlicking bullshit
that is the source of your "honest point of view"
you are nothing more than a pathetic moron or a liar
100%
your weak stupid lies are for mocking, nothing more
you're a joke
Alexandre Olivasurely you're not implying that the West's motives to provoke and remain in this conflict are pure
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the west sucks
but anyone equivocating on that in defense of outright kremlin mass murdering ethnofascist imperialism is a fucking moron or liar
it's possible to dislike both the west and russia. in fact, that's the moral position
but it's not possible to respect this DARVO "reverse victim and offender" bullshit from tankies and vatniks. it's gaslighting
nothing pure or noble about it
it's lies to support imperialism
just because it isn't western imperialism? LOL!
and fuck off with this "remain in this conflict" lie
*ukraine* is in the conflict because if they stop they are going to be genocided
to posit them as some puppet of the west, and that because the west might benefit in some way one must oppose ukraine's desire to keep fighting for their literal fucking lives is so viciously entitled it's hard for me to do anything but stick a middle finger up at this vile manipulation of what is actually going on here
so, what are Europe's pure motives to keep the conflict underway? surely it's not because they care so much more about Ukrainians than about Gazans, Venezuelans, Cubans, or Iranians, is it?
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😂 😂 😂
why would europe be more worried about an ethnofascist imperialist army marching towards them more than any other conflict in the world?
holy shit
why are people so entitled and clueless, and think when they speak on a topic avoiding the most obvious fucking things about it, they do anything other than embarrass themselves?
alexandre: do you understand the difference between literal life and death, and a purity morality play going on in your head?
dunno about you, but if a larger empire were bombing and genociding plenty of peoples around my continent, I'd be more worried about it than about helping it disturb and weaken its also-imperialistic opponents.
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Should a Pole be more invested in a fight against Russia? Or a fight against Israel or USA?
Nevermind it's not a contest. We're allowed to be more invested in one fight or another, without it meaning we don't care about another fight. That's a lying manipulative way of approaching the topic
If I feed the homeless as my primary effort and someone goes "so that means you don't care about imperialism?" this just means I'm dealing with a pathetic smearmongering edgelord
being both Latin-American and an Earthling, I'd have to say they should be far more worried about the USA than about any other imperial power
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you asked about "should." I get it that Poles have had a lot more negative experience with Russia than with the US, and that presumably twists their perceptions as to the riskier threats. I also get that I've had a lot more negative experiences with the US than with Russia in my lifetime, which twists mine the other way.
but objectively, Russia seems to have a hard time keeping up with a single war against a neighbor country, while the US initiates and maintains multiple wars at once all over the world, besides meddling with multiple other countries. even if Russia mainland is much closer to Poland, US military bases are even closer.
if I were European, I wouldn't be spending resources and weakening myself by supporting a fight against Russia, because I might need them to fend off the US. Ukrainians would be left to their own bad luck, and that would hurt because I'm 50% Ukrainian blood, but we're speaking of strategies and countries' interests here. I'd probably be allying with Russia and China and Brazil and India to try to mount a credible balance against the dangerously decadent but still by far strongest empire. those may not be the greatest and most trustworthy partners, but then, the US aren't either.
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but objectively, Russia seems to have a hard time keeping up with a single war against a neighbor country, while the US initiates and maintains multiple wars at once all over the world, besides meddling with multiple other countries. even if Russia mainland is much closer to Poland, US military bases are even closer.
if I were European, I wouldn't be spending resources and weakening myself by supporting a fight against Russia, because I might need them to fend off the US. Ukrainians would be left to their own bad luck, and that would hurt because I'm 50% Ukrainian blood, but we're speaking of strategies and countries' interests here. I'd probably be allying with Russia and China and Brazil and India to try to mount a credible balance against the dangerously decadent but still by far strongest empire. those may not be the greatest and most trustworthy partners, but then, the US aren't either.
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been there, tried that. and of course it wouldn't work, and I even understand why.
but then again, your question was not about how it is, but about how it should be, remember?
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but then again, your question was not about how it is, but about how it should be, remember?
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Martijn Vos@lxo @randahl @genziana @benroyce
That doesn't change the fact that Russia is a direct threat, is constantly talking about war with Europe, is currently invading a neighbour, and has a long and ugly history of invading and oppressing European countries. For all the shit the US has pulled, at least they've never invaded an ally like Russia has.
Although Trump got close. His threats to invade Greenland and Canada were taken incredibly seriously, and several European countries immediately sent troops to Greenland to make clear we do intend to defend it. Immense diplomatic effort has gone into dissuading Trump and keeping the US from siding with Russia. This is not something Europeans take lightly, although this betrayal did take us by surprise.
But none of that is an excuse to stop supporting Ukraine. A Europe with an independent Ukraine is significantly stronger than one without. Europe should do more to help Ukraine, exactly to ward off more aggressors. Putin and Trump only believe in force, so Europe should show strength, and liberating Ukraine would be the best way to do that.
And in case you hadn't noticed, Europe has massively ramped up its military investments, and in European, not American weapon systems, exactly to become less dependent on and more independent from the US.
I would love to ally with India and Brazil, but there's no chance in hell that Europe would ally with Putin. The fact that you even dare to suggest that, shows you have no clue about what's going on.
@genziana @benroyce @lxo @randahl
You lack consistency. A moment ago, you were arguing for independent strategic agency for Europe. Liberating Ukraine is exactly what Europe would and should do with independent strategic agency. The US has nothing to gain or lose in Ukraine, Europe does.
You contradict yourself because you just want to bad mouth Europe and defend Putin, and you don't really think about your arguments.
both Russia an US are actual threats to the EU, though I'm not so sure how much of the former is a product of propaganda from the latter
gotta keep in mind that Trump's US has no allies
when you find two opposing bullies, one of the silliest things one can do is to engage one of them at the stronger one's request, get yourself tired, and then, whether you defeat the first one, you'll be defeated by the other, even if the other pretended to be friends with you. they're only interested in friendship in as much as you serve them.
the smarter way to defeat both bullies is to maneuver so that they fight each other. meanwhile, ally with the other victims. even other weaker bullies. even if they bullied you before. after you deal with the stronger bully, you turn to the weaker ones.
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gotta keep in mind that Trump's US has no allies
when you find two opposing bullies, one of the silliest things one can do is to engage one of them at the stronger one's request, get yourself tired, and then, whether you defeat the first one, you'll be defeated by the other, even if the other pretended to be friends with you. they're only interested in friendship in as much as you serve them.
the smarter way to defeat both bullies is to maneuver so that they fight each other. meanwhile, ally with the other victims. even other weaker bullies. even if they bullied you before. after you deal with the stronger bully, you turn to the weaker ones.
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"both Russia an US are actual threats to the EU, though I'm not so sure how much of the former is a product of propaganda from the latter"
alexandre, i stopped reading here
russia invaded ukraine. that's reality, not propaganda
this doesn't mean the usa is not a threat, it means anyone coherent and honest understands what the most pressing threat to europe is
i can't take you seriously. you're not being honest on some very simple obvious points
the invasion is reality. everything around it, from incitements, provocations and justifications to expectations of future plans and fears, is propaganda.
Europe has been such a vassal to the US that they even downed a presidential flight assumed to carry an escaped US spy. Europe is finally waking up from complete and utter dependence on US big tech. it's become a colony, and as it tries to get its independence back, it will bring about the wrath of the big empire. the Russian threat pales in comparison, because Russia and US may both have power-hungry leaders but Russia does not control the entirety of the tech Europeans rely on.
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Europe has been such a vassal to the US that they even downed a presidential flight assumed to carry an escaped US spy. Europe is finally waking up from complete and utter dependence on US big tech. it's become a colony, and as it tries to get its independence back, it will bring about the wrath of the big empire. the Russian threat pales in comparison, because Russia and US may both have power-hungry leaders but Russia does not control the entirety of the tech Europeans rely on.
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@lxo @mcv @randahl @genziana if the usa invades europe, you are correct. If the usa does not, you are incorrect. Currently Russia is threatening to nuke europe and has been busy murdering europeans for years. So I wish Europeans godspeed in getting rid of microsoft products. And godspeed in funding ukrainian drone factories. Only an idiot considers the former issue worse than the latter issue
there are various kinds of invasions. why bother the military when the colony surrendered voluntarily?
you should really look more closely at how the tech dependency percolates even to political, economic and military forces. SWIFT, USD, GPS (for aviation and missile guidance), Internet and Web services, legal proceedings and government documents... who'd think drone factories are more important than all this infrastructure taken for granted but that depend on the cooperation of foreign powers turned hostile?
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you should really look more closely at how the tech dependency percolates even to political, economic and military forces. SWIFT, USD, GPS (for aviation and missile guidance), Internet and Web services, legal proceedings and government documents... who'd think drone factories are more important than all this infrastructure taken for granted but that depend on the cooperation of foreign powers turned hostile?
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@lxo @randahl @benroyce @genziana
I'm totally aware that the US is also a threat. Nobody here is denying that. Trump has shown several times that he's eager to side with Russia against Europe. He's tried several times to pressure Ukraine into surrender.
The US is not asking us to fight for Ukraine, Ukraine is. And the people of Europe are. Do you know how many Ukrainian flags are flying in windows and balconies in western Europe? The European people are far more pro-Ukraine than their governments.
The simple fact is that a Europe that liberates Ukraine will be far stronger than a Europe that sits idly by the sidelines while Russia gobbles up one neighbour after another. It's obvious to anyone that the best place to stop Russian aggression is in Ukraine.
(I'm really curious what the next spin from your propaganda playbook will be.)
where do these people come from who work so earnestly and so hard to defend very cheap flimsy lying narratives from the kremlin?
i don't understand it
it's baffling
they feel invested and they've chosen to invest in the stupidest lies from the kremlin playbook
the only think i can conclude is that social media disinfo is the most potent cognitive rat poison ever invented by humankind
propaganda narratives come from all sides. they're useful, because they usually carry in them ground kernels of truth, of yearnings, of beliefs, and so one can often extract information by identifying what's common among the conflicting narratives, and discarding the rest as predictable wishful lies
dismissing entirely any one side's narratives is also a propaganda narrative, alas, but people who are immersed in it may have extra difficulty in identifying it as such, just as we can't easily identify air, or fish can't easily identify the water around them
I, being somewhat distant from them all, and being the kind of autistic person who's insensitive to the most common kinds of propaganda, feel at a vantage point to detect and contrast these made-up narratives. alas, it's usually no more than an interesting puzzle, because I'm powerless to drive change based on my inferences, and the people who are immersed in the seas of propaganda often have a hard time as much as listening to theories that deviate from the ground premises instilled by multi-layered propaganda perceived as universal unquestionable beliefs within those bubbles.
rat poison is child play in comparison 😞
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dismissing entirely any one side's narratives is also a propaganda narrative, alas, but people who are immersed in it may have extra difficulty in identifying it as such, just as we can't easily identify air, or fish can't easily identify the water around them
I, being somewhat distant from them all, and being the kind of autistic person who's insensitive to the most common kinds of propaganda, feel at a vantage point to detect and contrast these made-up narratives. alas, it's usually no more than an interesting puzzle, because I'm powerless to drive change based on my inferences, and the people who are immersed in the seas of propaganda often have a hard time as much as listening to theories that deviate from the ground premises instilled by multi-layered propaganda perceived as universal unquestionable beliefs within those bubbles.
rat poison is child play in comparison 😞
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alexandre: if a country invades another hellbent on genocide, you condemn them, and you reject their lies in defense of their poor behavior. a wife beater will whine all sorts of excuses: "she made me beat her." who gives a fuck about his self-serving crocodile tears narrative? he beat his wife: condemn him. it's called morality, and you are abandoning it, so you're a sick disgusting person
but when a country provokes a war between others, then it's all right, eh?
and then, as I reason to reverse engineer and figure out their strategies and motivations, I'm somehow abandoning morality? it's not me who's dismissing reproachable behaviors here.
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and then, as I reason to reverse engineer and figure out their strategies and motivations, I'm somehow abandoning morality? it's not me who's dismissing reproachable behaviors here.
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@lxo @randahl @genziana @benroyce
There is a massive, massive difference between facts and lies. You're suggestion that it's all the same is post-truth propaganda. Very popular in the age of Trump, but it has no place here. You may want to believe that your feelings trump facts, but they don't.
Debunking lies is something else, though. And your narrative hangs together from easily debunked lies.
You can try to weasel your way out of that, but that's not going to work here.
Ha, you're the one making up these narratives. Either you're paid to spread Kremlin propaganda, or you fell for it. You're not insensitive to it at all; you're gullible to it. You lack critical thinking.
Let me show you some examples of what you said:
You're suggesting (though cowardly not literally claiming) that the reason Russia wants to control eastern Europe is because of US propaganda. That makes no sense, but is also blatantly untrue. It's Russia itself that's openly beating the war drum, and being explicit about wanting to control other countries. And that's nothing new; it was like that even before the US existed.
This is actually exactly what Europe is doing: keeping the US from bullying Europe and opposed to Russia. And Europe allies with other victims of Russian bullying, like Ukraine.
But what you're trying to suggest here is that Europe should ally with Russia against the US. You know very well that Europe is not that stupid. Russia has a history of bullying and attacking its allies. You're not safe as Russia's ally. You're not even safe as Russia's vassal. Russia is openly hostile to Europe. The only situation in which you can ally with a country like that, is when you're in an existential war against a third power that's invading you both, as was the case in WW2. But that alliance came at the very steep cost of sacrificing eastern Europe to Russian opression. Never again.
Here you're implying that the West provoked this war. That is blatantly untrue. The West could have done more to dissuade Putin by hard guarantees to defend Ukraine. They failed to do that, but that's not the same as provoking.
Or this piece of bullshit:
You imply that Europe is weakening itself by helping Ukraine (it's not), or that it makes us vulnerable to US aggression (unimaginable before Trump, but we were already vulnerable and are actually strengthening ourselves by getting more organised without the US), that we should ally with Russia (a ludicrous suggestion; they are our primary enemy, and not interested in allies, only in vassals). And besides, NATO without the US is already the second strongest military in the world. The only thing we need is to get more organised, to integrate our military, and put up a united front. An alliance with Russia accomplishes none of those things, but rather the opposite.
Every argument you make comes down to suggesting that Europe should abandon Ukraine and support Russia, despite their aggression against European countries.
In the late 1990s, it actually did look like Russia might become our ally. The Cold War was over, Russia participated in a NATO exercise, the US and Russia, together with many other countries, were cooperating on the ISS. And then Putin came to power, and made it clear he didn't respect European countries as equals. Europe still desperately tried to treat Russia as an equal trading partner, even after their invasion of Crimea and Donbas (which should really have been a massive warning, but western Europe was naive). It only got us more hostility.
Our words against Putin are not propaganda, they're experience. You're a fool if you trust Putin.
You're suggesting (though cowardly not literally claiming) that the reason Russia wants to control eastern Europe is because of US propaganda
No, what I wrote was that European Russophobia has likely been boosted by US propaganda.
I don't dispute that Europe, especially Eastern Europe, has plenty of reason to distrust Russia.
But that doesn't rule out that the cold war propaganda could have made it worse.
I take it that as much as suggesting that allying with everyone else against the bigger and more dangerous bully, explicitly including Russia, crossed some line that triggered an understandable jerk reflex (I'm not disputing that it's from hard-earned experience, BTW). I'm sorry about that.
the alternative seems to be to remain ruled by divide an conquer, alas, and subservient to the US.
how do Europeans feel about allying with China? is Sinophobia anywhere as strong as Russophobia?
how about India?
I take it from the recent agreement with Mercosur that Brazil wouldn't involve such strong reflex reactions, right?
not interested in allies, only in vassals
you realize this applies to the US as well, right? don't allow your distrust for Russia fool you into placing undeserved trust in the US.
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No, what I wrote was that European Russophobia has likely been boosted by US propaganda.
I don't dispute that Europe, especially Eastern Europe, has plenty of reason to distrust Russia.
But that doesn't rule out that the cold war propaganda could have made it worse.
I take it that as much as suggesting that allying with everyone else against the bigger and more dangerous bully, explicitly including Russia, crossed some line that triggered an understandable jerk reflex (I'm not disputing that it's from hard-earned experience, BTW). I'm sorry about that.
the alternative seems to be to remain ruled by divide an conquer, alas, and subservient to the US.
how do Europeans feel about allying with China? is Sinophobia anywhere as strong as Russophobia?
how about India?
I take it from the recent agreement with Mercosur that Brazil wouldn't involve such strong reflex reactions, right?
not interested in allies, only in vassals
you realize this applies to the US as well, right? don't allow your distrust for Russia fool you into placing undeserved trust in the US.
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Russian's response to the threat of installing NATO bases in Ukraine wasn't hard to predict; you just have to look at how the US reacted to the installation of Russian missiles in Cuba.
European's response to the invasion wasn't hard to predict either, given the long history of Russophobia, nevermind NATO's strong deterrence effect against Russian imperialism, but also against direct acts of resistance.
anyhow, given these predictably irresistible responses, the ones who made the moves who set this all in motion can be presumed to have predicted and expected them and the ensuing proxy war that would cost plenty of Ukrainian blood, and then the important question is why. why did they want two of the largest other powers in the world engaging in a long fight against each other?
surely it wasn't just to weaken Russian support in Venezuela so as to promote regime change there and guarantee the oil supply while going for a regime change in Iran. perhaps the threat to take over Ukraine was to then trade it for Venezuela and Cuba? I don't know. but what's clear to me is that a weaker, spent, subservient Europe united against Russia rather than against the US is clearly in US interest, and a weaker, spent Russia is a bonus.
if Europe had intervened decisively, maybe it could have cut the war short. its predictably hesitant and limited support ensures the war runs longer, as neither side manages to prevail, while negotiations get sabotaged to ensure the armed conflict continues. whoever plotted this doesn't assign much value to Ukrainian and Russian lives, and doesn't worry about Europe's spending on armament and money.
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European's response to the invasion wasn't hard to predict either, given the long history of Russophobia, nevermind NATO's strong deterrence effect against Russian imperialism, but also against direct acts of resistance.
anyhow, given these predictably irresistible responses, the ones who made the moves who set this all in motion can be presumed to have predicted and expected them and the ensuing proxy war that would cost plenty of Ukrainian blood, and then the important question is why. why did they want two of the largest other powers in the world engaging in a long fight against each other?
surely it wasn't just to weaken Russian support in Venezuela so as to promote regime change there and guarantee the oil supply while going for a regime change in Iran. perhaps the threat to take over Ukraine was to then trade it for Venezuela and Cuba? I don't know. but what's clear to me is that a weaker, spent, subservient Europe united against Russia rather than against the US is clearly in US interest, and a weaker, spent Russia is a bonus.
if Europe had intervened decisively, maybe it could have cut the war short. its predictably hesitant and limited support ensures the war runs longer, as neither side manages to prevail, while negotiations get sabotaged to ensure the armed conflict continues. whoever plotted this doesn't assign much value to Ukrainian and Russian lives, and doesn't worry about Europe's spending on armament and money.
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"the threat of installing NATO bases in Ukraine"
i stopped reading here
Alexandre, you are an uninformed person
you hear lies on social media that originated in the kremlin and you believe them
you are not a serious person on this topic
you are a manipulated idiot, arriving at "why yes, it does make sense for the wife beater to beat his wife after all" level of "morality" and "intelligence" on the matter of ukraine
why are there so many morons in this world?
this is what you sound like to me:
"the man's wife wore the dress he did not like. so he put her in the hospital with broken bones. this is a plausible and suitable course of action to me, and i blame the dressmakers for making a nice dress"
that is the level of morality and intelligence you have in commenting on ukraine
utterly fucking vile and stupid
you support mass murdering imperialism. but it's not from the west, so it is ok to you. unbelievable
can I have some of those mushrooms? they sound very interesting!
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CC: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
why are there so many morons in this world?
because they stop reading and thinking when they hit something that the propaganda they're immersed in vaccinated them against?
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because they stop reading and thinking when they hit something that the propaganda they're immersed in vaccinated them against?
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@lxo @randahl @benroyce @genziana
There was never any threat of installing NATO bases in Ukraine before Russia invaded. The only reason Russia's neighbours are so eager to join NATO, is because of the threat Russia poses to them. Russia could have made NATO irrelevant by not threatening its neighbours, but instead it strengthened NATO and sent more neighbours to join NATO because of its war on Ukraine. NATO exists because of Russian aggression. That's the only reason.
You call it Russophobia, but wouldn't you be afraid of a neighbour that wants to dominate or conquer you? One that has a history of attacking and conquering its neighbours?
What Putin expected was to take Kyiv in three days. He failed. He underestimated Ukraine, and overestimated his own army. The Russian military has proven to be a paper tiger. Yet still he continues to fight.
Yes, Russia is weaker now than ever before, but that has entirely been Putin's choice. He's sacrificing the Russian economy, Russian lives, a Russian generation, for his foolish dreams of conquest. Everybody warned against it, but he did it anyway.
I don't know what's in US interest at this point. Their biggest problems have always been at home. Now more than ever.
Finally we agree. Yes, Europe should have given a lot more support to Ukraine at a much earlier stage. Europe has been too hesitant, waited too much for the US to take the lead, but the US doesn't have much to gain or lose here; Europe does. We should have done more, but we can still do more.
Also something we agree on. Putin is notoriously callous about Russian and Ukrainian lives.
wouldn't you be afraid of a neighbour that wants to dominate or conquer you? One that has a history of attacking and conquering its neighbours?
that's exactly what I'm talking about: that we need more USphobia to stop acting like colonies and vassals!
Russia could have made NATO irrelevant by not threatening its neighbours, but instead it strengthened NATO and sent more neighbours to join NATO because of its war on Ukraine
here we agree as well. it was a brilliant move to strengthen NATO, if that's what that who set this in motion meant to do.
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that's exactly what I'm talking about: that we need more USphobia to stop acting like colonies and vassals!
Russia could have made NATO irrelevant by not threatening its neighbours, but instead it strengthened NATO and sent more neighbours to join NATO because of its war on Ukraine
here we agree as well. it was a brilliant move to strengthen NATO, if that's what that who set this in motion meant to do.
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@lxo @randahl @benroyce @genziana
Are you suggesting Putin wanted to strengthen NATO? The guy who constantly claims to be at war with NATO? No, Putin completely misjudged the situation. That's a thing dictators and narcissists tend to do.
that's exactly what I'm talking about: that we need more USphobia to stop acting like colonies and vassals!
And you already got what you wanted. Europe is arming itself, sent troops to Greenland, and is investing in its own defense industry instead of the US.
What kind of history of eastern Europe are you hinting at? The history of Russian imperialisms is well known.
It's good that its colonies are increasingly getting their independence; Russia is the last remaining colonial power in Europe that hasn't given up the majority of its colonies yet.
Russia wanting Ukraine back would be like the UK wanting India back, or Spain and Portugal wanting South America back. We should leave the age of colonialism behind us. No major power has an inherent right to control the lands of other people.
@mcv @randahl @benroyce @nicholas @lxo The idea of Russia "wanting back" Ukraine is a diversion. Whether you understand it or not, they are against Nato presence at their footsteps. Popular elections favored pro-russian yet neutralist presidents, who opened up trade agreements with EU - until the uprising at Maidan, at which point the hardline Eu-nato line won prompting Russia to occupy some russian speaking regions of ukraine. One can understand this even while not supporting Russia
@genziana @mcv @randahl @nicholas @lxo
" The idea of Russia "wanting back" Ukraine is a diversion"
sorry i stopped reading here
🤣
WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING DUMB
who do you think buys this shit? do you think we're sitting in ryazan main lining kremlin lies on rossiya-1 all day?
"russia invading ukraine isn't the topic... NATO is!"
again: who do you think buys this moronic, lying stupid shit?