Randahl FinkThis is huge! For the first time in over two years, Ukraine has begun taking back their land, resulting in a net territorial gain in February, according to Finnish OSI group Blackbird.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Davide Alimonti@randahl This is not coming for free though as expenditures of Europe+US surpass €300 bn and death toll is in the several hundreds of thousands.
This is not a football match
This is not a football match
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIEStell the kremlin that, not us
putin and the kremlin have shown time and time and time again that dialog does not work. they are dishonorable. they keep no agreements. they have no intention of meeting peace. for them, dialog is just a tactic to twist to their advantage, and any "peace "is temporary in order for them to rearm, and then attack again on a stupid lie
you are very naive, or straight up lying, about what putin and the kremlin are and what they represent
@benroyce @randahl Yours is a very simplistic view of the events unfolding. It's in your rights to take the parts of Ukraine, however it is undeniable that this war is also a consequence of exploiting the change of leadership in Ukraine to turn it into a US-NATO outpost . Russia escalated the war, but this was not the only cause. EU is intentionally stalling the negotiations by proposing unfeisable terms such as european army presence in Ukraine
😂 😂 😂
vatniks are so fucking easy to sniff out
NATO did not expand east, geopolitics professor
eastern europe ran screaming and pounding on the door to be let in
if you figure out why, what worried them, you might begin to catch a glimmer of honesty apart from your "blame the victim" stupid easy bullshit you push here
bullshit that you fell for as a pathetic moron lapping up hilarious kremlin lies
or that you are pushing here as the putin boot licking loser you are
@benroyce @randahl Wow! Labeling thoughts different than yours as foreign propaganda is not unprecedented.
I'm sorry that you are getting angry - but this will not change the real world. I invite you and who is reading to read more about the history of Eastern Europe from qualified sources and most importantly start reflecting a bit on the mechanisms that cause wars
I'm sorry that you are getting angry - but this will not change the real world. I invite you and who is reading to read more about the history of Eastern Europe from qualified sources and most importantly start reflecting a bit on the mechanisms that cause wars
ah yes
the "noble differences of opinion" defense from the lying sleazebag vatnik
*anyone* who buys this "russia had reasons because NATO expansion" is a complete and utter moron, or a complete and utter liar
that's all you are and all you represent with your putin bootlicking bullshit
that is the source of your "honest point of view"
you are nothing more than a pathetic moron or a liar
100%
your weak stupid lies are for mocking, nothing more
you're a joke
Alexandre Olivasurely you're not implying that the West's motives to provoke and remain in this conflict are pure
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
the west sucks
but anyone equivocating on that in defense of outright kremlin mass murdering ethnofascist imperialism is a fucking moron or liar
it's possible to dislike both the west and russia. in fact, that's the moral position
but it's not possible to respect this DARVO "reverse victim and offender" bullshit from tankies and vatniks. it's gaslighting
nothing pure or noble about it
it's lies to support imperialism
just because it isn't western imperialism? LOL!
and fuck off with this "remain in this conflict" lie
*ukraine* is in the conflict because if they stop they are going to be genocided
to posit them as some puppet of the west, and that because the west might benefit in some way one must oppose ukraine's desire to keep fighting for their literal fucking lives is so viciously entitled it's hard for me to do anything but stick a middle finger up at this vile manipulation of what is actually going on here
so, what are Europe's pure motives to keep the conflict underway? surely it's not because they care so much more about Ukrainians than about Gazans, Venezuelans, Cubans, or Iranians, is it?
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
😂 😂 😂
why would europe be more worried about an ethnofascist imperialist army marching towards them more than any other conflict in the world?
holy shit
why are people so entitled and clueless, and think when they speak on a topic avoiding the most obvious fucking things about it, they do anything other than embarrass themselves?
alexandre: do you understand the difference between literal life and death, and a purity morality play going on in your head?
dunno about you, but if a larger empire were bombing and genociding plenty of peoples around my continent, I'd be more worried about it than about helping it disturb and weaken its also-imperialistic opponents.
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CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
Should a Pole be more invested in a fight against Russia? Or a fight against Israel or USA?
Nevermind it's not a contest. We're allowed to be more invested in one fight or another, without it meaning we don't care about another fight. That's a lying manipulative way of approaching the topic
If I feed the homeless as my primary effort and someone goes "so that means you don't care about imperialism?" this just means I'm dealing with a pathetic smearmongering edgelord
being both Latin-American and an Earthling, I'd have to say they should be far more worried about the USA than about any other imperial power
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CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
you asked about "should." I get it that Poles have had a lot more negative experience with Russia than with the US, and that presumably twists their perceptions as to the riskier threats. I also get that I've had a lot more negative experiences with the US than with Russia in my lifetime, which twists mine the other way.
but objectively, Russia seems to have a hard time keeping up with a single war against a neighbor country, while the US initiates and maintains multiple wars at once all over the world, besides meddling with multiple other countries. even if Russia mainland is much closer to Poland, US military bases are even closer.
if I were European, I wouldn't be spending resources and weakening myself by supporting a fight against Russia, because I might need them to fend off the US. Ukrainians would be left to their own bad luck, and that would hurt because I'm 50% Ukrainian blood, but we're speaking of strategies and countries' interests here. I'd probably be allying with Russia and China and Brazil and India to try to mount a credible balance against the dangerously decadent but still by far strongest empire. those may not be the greatest and most trustworthy partners, but then, the US aren't either.
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
but objectively, Russia seems to have a hard time keeping up with a single war against a neighbor country, while the US initiates and maintains multiple wars at once all over the world, besides meddling with multiple other countries. even if Russia mainland is much closer to Poland, US military bases are even closer.
if I were European, I wouldn't be spending resources and weakening myself by supporting a fight against Russia, because I might need them to fend off the US. Ukrainians would be left to their own bad luck, and that would hurt because I'm 50% Ukrainian blood, but we're speaking of strategies and countries' interests here. I'd probably be allying with Russia and China and Brazil and India to try to mount a credible balance against the dangerously decadent but still by far strongest empire. those may not be the greatest and most trustworthy partners, but then, the US aren't either.
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
been there, tried that. and of course it wouldn't work, and I even understand why.
but then again, your question was not about how it is, but about how it should be, remember?
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but then again, your question was not about how it is, but about how it should be, remember?
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
Martijn Vos@lxo @randahl @genziana @benroyce
That doesn't change the fact that Russia is a direct threat, is constantly talking about war with Europe, is currently invading a neighbour, and has a long and ugly history of invading and oppressing European countries. For all the shit the US has pulled, at least they've never invaded an ally like Russia has.
Although Trump got close. His threats to invade Greenland and Canada were taken incredibly seriously, and several European countries immediately sent troops to Greenland to make clear we do intend to defend it. Immense diplomatic effort has gone into dissuading Trump and keeping the US from siding with Russia. This is not something Europeans take lightly, although this betrayal did take us by surprise.
But none of that is an excuse to stop supporting Ukraine. A Europe with an independent Ukraine is significantly stronger than one without. Europe should do more to help Ukraine, exactly to ward off more aggressors. Putin and Trump only believe in force, so Europe should show strength, and liberating Ukraine would be the best way to do that.
And in case you hadn't noticed, Europe has massively ramped up its military investments, and in European, not American weapon systems, exactly to become less dependent on and more independent from the US.
I would love to ally with India and Brazil, but there's no chance in hell that Europe would ally with Putin. The fact that you even dare to suggest that, shows you have no clue about what's going on.
both Russia an US are actual threats to the EU, though I'm not so sure how much of the former is a product of propaganda from the latter
gotta keep in mind that Trump's US has no allies
when you find two opposing bullies, one of the silliest things one can do is to engage one of them at the stronger one's request, get yourself tired, and then, whether you defeat the first one, you'll be defeated by the other, even if the other pretended to be friends with you. they're only interested in friendship in as much as you serve them.
the smarter way to defeat both bullies is to maneuver so that they fight each other. meanwhile, ally with the other victims. even other weaker bullies. even if they bullied you before. after you deal with the stronger bully, you turn to the weaker ones.
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
gotta keep in mind that Trump's US has no allies
when you find two opposing bullies, one of the silliest things one can do is to engage one of them at the stronger one's request, get yourself tired, and then, whether you defeat the first one, you'll be defeated by the other, even if the other pretended to be friends with you. they're only interested in friendship in as much as you serve them.
the smarter way to defeat both bullies is to maneuver so that they fight each other. meanwhile, ally with the other victims. even other weaker bullies. even if they bullied you before. after you deal with the stronger bully, you turn to the weaker ones.
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
"both Russia an US are actual threats to the EU, though I'm not so sure how much of the former is a product of propaganda from the latter"
alexandre, i stopped reading here
russia invaded ukraine. that's reality, not propaganda
this doesn't mean the usa is not a threat, it means anyone coherent and honest understands what the most pressing threat to europe is
i can't take you seriously. you're not being honest on some very simple obvious points
@lxo @randahl @benroyce @genziana
I'm totally aware that the US is also a threat. Nobody here is denying that. Trump has shown several times that he's eager to side with Russia against Europe. He's tried several times to pressure Ukraine into surrender.
The US is not asking us to fight for Ukraine, Ukraine is. And the people of Europe are. Do you know how many Ukrainian flags are flying in windows and balconies in western Europe? The European people are far more pro-Ukraine than their governments.
The simple fact is that a Europe that liberates Ukraine will be far stronger than a Europe that sits idly by the sidelines while Russia gobbles up one neighbour after another. It's obvious to anyone that the best place to stop Russian aggression is in Ukraine.
(I'm really curious what the next spin from your propaganda playbook will be.)
What kind of history of eastern Europe are you hinting at? The history of Russian imperialisms is well known.
It's good that its colonies are increasingly getting their independence; Russia is the last remaining colonial power in Europe that hasn't given up the majority of its colonies yet.
Russia wanting Ukraine back would be like the UK wanting India back, or Spain and Portugal wanting South America back. We should leave the age of colonialism behind us. No major power has an inherent right to control the lands of other people.
@mcv @randahl @benroyce @nicholas @lxo The idea of Russia "wanting back" Ukraine is a diversion. Whether you understand it or not, they are against Nato presence at their footsteps. Popular elections favored pro-russian yet neutralist presidents, who opened up trade agreements with EU - until the uprising at Maidan, at which point the hardline Eu-nato line won prompting Russia to occupy some russian speaking regions of ukraine. One can understand this even while not supporting Russia
@genziana @mcv @randahl @nicholas @lxo
" The idea of Russia "wanting back" Ukraine is a diversion"
sorry i stopped reading here
🤣
WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING DUMB
who do you think buys this shit? do you think we're sitting in ryazan main lining kremlin lies on rossiya-1 all day?
"russia invading ukraine isn't the topic... NATO is!"
again: who do you think buys this moronic, lying stupid shit?
@genziana @benroyce @nicholas @lxo @randahl
Do you honestly think anything you wrote justifies that invasion? Do you even understand why the Maidan uprising happened? Yanukovich backed out of those EU trade deals because of Russian pressure, and against the will of the people and parliament.
That is exactly the issue: that Putin will pressure and manipulate countries to follow Moscow's lead and not act independently from him.
He wants to control Ukraine and other former Soviet states. They can only be independent as long as they don't act like it. Otherwise Russian tanks show up, just like they did in Hungary in 1956 or Prague 1968.
And do you understand why Putin opposed that Ukraine-EU trade agreement? It would have boosted the Ukrainian economy and made Ukrainians rich. Lots of Russians have family in Ukraine, and seeing the difference between the weak Russian economy and a much stronger economy in Ukraine would have made them start asking questions about Putin's leadership.
That's what this is ultimately about: Ukrainian success would have dispelled Putin's propaganda and undermined his grasp on power. This was never about Russia, it's about Putin himself. Exposing his own failure is the real threat to him.
@mcv @randahl @benroyce @nicholas @lxo Ignoring the heavy wishful thinking, I will say that of course it's despicable that Russia tried to force Ukraine not to integrate more within EU (becoming a nice and tasty pool of cheap labour) - however we can understand why they felt threatened by this.
We can only speculate whethere it would have been possible to obtain something by negotiating with Russia, because we decided that they were just enemies not to speak to. Our integralism lead to this
We can only speculate whethere it would have been possible to obtain something by negotiating with Russia, because we decided that they were just enemies not to speak to. Our integralism lead to this
@genziana @benroyce @nicholas @lxo @randahl
"They". Putin. Putin is the only one who felt threatened by the possibility of Ukrainian success. Nobody else in Russia would deny it to them.
And what is there to negotiate with someone who only wants to control you and wants you to fail?
You're trying to defend the indefensible here.
@mcv @randahl @benroyce Yes, it will suck to give land and concessions to Russia, especially since they got there by war. If you open any history book you'll learn that peace is reached by giving something to the winner which as of now is Russia. The problem is that nobody except (strange I know) the US is trying to bridge between the parts. War sucks and the West wanted it, now it lost it. I'm sorry the Ukraininans got sucked up in a game bigger than them
MidgePhoto@genziana
I suspect:-
1. You*
2. That resolution is a matter of economic and perhaps societal collapse. And that may not be so very far ahead.
* Plonk!
@genziana
The home team is at home.
The away team is free to go home at any point.
They should.
They might consider going into politics.
The home team is at home.
The away team is free to go home at any point.
They should.
They might consider going into politics.